All out of piggies

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All out of piggies

Postby Green Gibbon! » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:49 pm

So it's been ten years, give or take a couple of weeks. Sega Enterprises, for all intents and purposes, died about three years ago, but The GHZ yet pulses with life. Sonic the Hedgehog ceased to be relevant roughly eight years ago, but The GHZ still stumbles blindly into fiery blue damnation. Everyone who cared or mattered has long since moved on, but The GHZ yet lingers in a stagnant murk of failure and stale running gags. At times like this, there's only one thing a man can say:

キタ━━━━━━(゚∀゚)━━━━━━ !!!!!

The logical progression of this conversation, of course, brings us directly to this:

<img src="/gibbon/nights2.jpg">

Sadly, we have only ourselves to blame. If we the elite few hadn't spent the past decade rambling in reverent tones about the majesty of the Saturn original, the current generation of teenyboppers and two-bit sham journalists wouldn't acknowledge the game as a legend (Lord knows they've never played it), and the Saturn (and indeed Sonic Team's) finest hour wouldn't now be on the sacrificial pedestal. Furthermore, I am of the growing impression that I've been entirely too hard on Naka these past few years, for only after his departure from the company did this bomb finally drop, leading me to believe that he was perhaps single-handedly defending the sanctity of the property. (He certainly had the clout to do such a thing.) No, this is all on br'er Iizuka, and while it's true that he was one of the lead designers on the original game, he is the last man standing and - as recent history has proven - is not to be trusted.

While we're on that track, the long-forbidden tryst between hedgehog and plumber is finally materializing, and while in theory I don't find that as offensive as an uncalled-for sequel to a game that was apparently too perfect to leave unravaged, the circumstances of the liaison are depressing. I will lay it out on the table now: the olympics are stupid. I will not discuss this point further because there is nothing further to discuss. I would've been more than prepared for a cameo in Smash Bros (I mean if they're gonna toss Solid fucking Snake in there, why the hell not?). Even a cute, unpretentious party game might've been easier to stomach than a crass tie-in product designed to promote an overblown real-world sporting event. It's like watching John Wayne and Toshiro Mifune doing an infomercial.

BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS THIS.

A couple years ago I resolved to scour the site and remove all the old text that now makes me wince. I did not realize at the time that this would mean rewriting (occasionally two or three times) every single page in the museum. At long last, the end of this herculean task is in sight: the museum is, at present, up-to-date (more or less) through Sonic Adventure 2. As usual, there's lots of new information - the Sonic Adventure pages in particular are now derived more heavily from the Japanese source text than the occasionally compromised translations - but I'm sure I've let errors aplenty slip through the cracks, and I assume I no longer have to ask for a volunteer proofreader or three to let me know of any boo-boo's. By all means, let the roast commence.

A few people in the forum have complained that the museum pages are no longer as interesting to read as they once were. It's a criticism I've taken to heart, though I'm not sure how to respond to it. I myself think the writing on the site is better than it's ever been (which, mind, is not saying much). Certainly the tone has changed - my synopses clearly don't have the sense of immediacy they once did, being now written by a crotchety old man from a purely retrospective standpoint. I like to think my sense of humor hasn't deteriorated that drastically (good Lord, it's all I've got left). I know I certainly haven't been making any deliberate efforts to tone down the funny schtick, but at the same time I haven't hesitated to remove any of the old schtick I no longer consider funny. Perhaps the truth is simply - and I knew this day would come eventually - that I am no longer hip. :PB:

Rather than end this six-month-late update on such a somber note, I think it worthwhile to point out this culturally relevant thread in the forum:
http://www.theghz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2126. GHZer Locit, exemplifying the bold spirit of discovery characteristic of our race, has ventured to open a decade old can of Sonic spaghettio's. This could well be the first time in history this has been attempted, and the experiment has significance that extends far beyond the wayward realm of Sonic fandom. Excelsior!
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Postby M.C.Dillinger » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:30 pm

Where's the Wiki?
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Postby gr4yJ4Y » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:55 pm

I don't suppose there's any chance games after SA2 getting their own pages sometime soon, eh?
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Postby Arcade » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:00 pm

gr4yJ4Y wrote:I don't suppose there's any chance games after SA2 getting their own pages sometime soon, eh?


Well, remember how Green Gibbon! Said Sonic battle had an awesome script and then some old mumble jumbo criticized the script?
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Postby FlashTHD » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:06 pm

A few people in the forum have complained that the museum pages are no longer as interesting to read as they once were. It's a criticism I've taken to heart, though I'm not sure how to respond to it. I myself think the writing on the site is better than it's ever been (which, mind, is not saying much). Certainly the tone has changed - my synopses clearly don't have the sense of immediacy they once did, being now written by a crotchety old man from a purely retrospective standpoint. I like to think my sense of humor hasn't deteriorated that drastically (good Lord, it's all I've got left). I know I certainly haven't been making any deliberate efforts to tone down the funny schtick, but at the same time I haven't hesitated to remove any of the old schtick I no longer consider funny. Perhaps the truth is simply - and I knew this day would come eventually - that I am no longer hip.

I think the last remaining (intact) remnant of the GHZ's signature style are these forums. More to the point, I can tell you're better at it than these updated pages show - the stuff you post on the forums is as entertaining as ever, but the museum pages get more unremarkable every update or so. When I thought about that, though, it hit me:

Are you addicted to Wikipedia? That's the best explanation I can think of for the root of the problem here: your writing on the new museum pages has begun to ape how they do things way, waaaay too much. Shit, now that I think of it, even the newer color scheme is scarily similar. I remember you said before that a guilty pastime of yours was aimlessly surfing over there.

Well, whatever the case: The Sonic Adventure updates were rush jobs, weren't they? SA1's was, at least, better written than the last few updates.
=============================================================
Max speed is hit almost instantaneously

There's a definite acceleration curve. It's short but not that short.

The scripted time-of-day shifts aren't mentioned. Also, it doesn't happen on the Egg Carrier somehow, and there's a slight glitch in Gamma's Adventure that causes it to stay locked at nighttime after completing his story.

Keepers can only be damaged when their heads are detached: violate their space when they're whole and they'll simply knock you away with their arms.

They'll swat you away whether their heads are off or not. The right time to strike is while they're moving in or when their backs are turned after passing by you. (Don't quite hold me to this.)

Jump, then press the A button again while in midair to home in on the nearest enemy or Item Box.

...or spring.

Bosses, cutscenes, and sub-games aren't marked with any prefix. Of course it's obvious what's what and those prefixes are technically redundant, but somehow I find it cheap not to do that. If anything, you could stand to insert a linebreak or two linebreaks between those strings of cutscenes that didn't get any. On that note, it could be a little more orderly to arrange all the sub-games in a list and place it after the story synopses.

...speaking of prefixes, I see you've removed that "Boss:" prefix off the pages for the older games too for bosses that have names. Now -that- is a problem alright. It's jarring, especially in the cases of Sonic 3/& Knuckles, and it makes about as much sense to remove those as it is using those little letter images for button code sequences (how can plain text not be good enough?).

The Egg Hornet's missile barrage goes on longer as you damage him.

You forgot to give the shower room its' props in Casinopolis' entry.

Jump onto icy stalactites to grab hold: slide around the surface by pressing the control stick left or right, and jump off by pressing A.

...with some haste before you slip off. And the big ramps of the snowboarding finale aren't exclusive to Tails.

In the Knuckles fight, he sticks to rolling and the PPP combo for the first two hits, then throws in gliding when he's on the ropes. Sonic, likewise, goes nuts with spin dashes at first, then tries Homing Attacks towards the end. As for Gamma, I forgot.

More Chaos 4 info: sinking too far into the water damages you; if you get lucky and you're in close enough, he stops to try and take a pass at you; his slash beam throws two shockwaves your way when he's down to one hit; and towards the end he abuses a flip attack that sends big splashes out in four directions, sinking lilypads and knocking you out of a jump if you get caught by one.

Press A, B, or X to fire basic missiles and hold the button down to lock-on to multiple targets.

Uhh...those "basic missiles" are machine gun fire :p And what happened to the bit about Eggman's sneak attack?

You forgot the ring bonus you get from Twinkle Park's bowling lanes. The more pins you knock down, the more groups of rings the machine pays out afterward.

Things on Red Mountain worth mentioning: the bridges that start to crumble when you approach, the magma geysers waiting for you to pass by so they can blow, and what of these?:
Old page wrote:It's worth noting that in the second half, there are these crazy skull tombstones and prison cells with some weird-ass tubey robots in 'em, not to mention an occasional electric chair. (The sheer weirdness of this stage is seriously under appreciated.)

In the windy segment of Sky Deck, listen close, and you can hear Eggman barking commands. He's adjusting the ship's speed trying to throw you off.

You missed all of Chaos 6's other attacks: the vaccum breath, a forward tail slash, and the tendril attack is definitely not Knuckles-exclusive. One thing that's not well-known, though, is that you can take him in two hits with the Light Speed Attack/Maximum Heat attack.

The huge mechanical claws in Final Egg can be taken out if you pop them in the right spot. (They're invincible in SADX...)

While flying as Tails, hold B or X to drop like a brick. Try this near the end of Windy Valley - you can skip that last automated run entirely and save a crapton of time.

The Egg Walker drops a massive barrage of bombs whenever it jumps from one end of the street to the other, and about the only safe places are right in front of or underneath where he's landing, or flying over the explosions.

There's something you didn't bring up about Knuckles' gliding that i'd think you'd know...and digging can only be triggered easily while standing still or moving -very- slowly.

And a lot more as I find/research/have time for it later.
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Re: All out of piggies

Postby Tsuyoshi-kun » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:20 am

Green Gibbon! wrote:If we the elite few hadn't spent the past decade rambling in reverent tones about the majesty of the Saturn original, the current generation of teenyboppers and two-bit sham journalists wouldn't acknowledge the game as a legend (Lord knows they've never played it), and the Saturn (and indeed Sonic Team's) finest hour wouldn't now be on the sacrificial pedestal.


I had a chance to buy a Saturn and NiGHTS back in October, but bought pop'n music instead. I still kick myself every now and again for it.

But seriously, this is better than the almighty Sonic 3 & Knuckles?? Really? This isn't just biased Sega nostalgia talking, is it?
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Re: All out of piggies

Postby Locit » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:56 am

Tsuyoshi-kun wrote:I had a chance to buy a Saturn and NiGHTS back in October, but bought pop'n music instead. I still kick myself every now and again for it.


If I ever see you I'll kick you.
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Postby Wooduck51 » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:06 am

I just read the Sonic adventure 2 page, and I am glad to see that the wit therein was not compromised at all. In fact several of the new comments have an even better ring, such as my new favorite line "Insufficient xerox"
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Postby G.Silver » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:21 am

the almighty Sonic 3 & Knuckles?? Really? This isn't just biased Sega nostalgia talking, is it?


"Almighty Sonic 3 & Knuckles" sounds an awful lot like biased Sega nostalgia right there.
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Postby Isuka » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:01 am

But it's so true... :P . Though GG! is right in that NiGHTS' core gameplay can't get any better, only longer and with different Dreams and Marens.
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Postby Tsuyoshi-kun » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:01 pm

The "almighty" thing was sarcasm, by the way. S3&K is still a great game.

The real question was if it was worth the hunting and e-bay skimming? I don't doubt it is, but one can never hesitate to ask.
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Postby FlashTHD » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:31 pm

Not right this minute. Prices for it on eBay shot up when the sequel was announced.
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Postby Shadow Hog » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:48 pm

Nah, it's actually not too bad. You just need to bid on the right auctions; the majority are under $20, which is a reasonable price. The ones that go for $70 or higher are being run by retards; the same kind of retards that think <i>Panzer Dragoon Saga</i> will sell at $569.99, when the average price is anywhere from $100-$200.
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Postby FlashTHD » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:57 pm

Hmm.

I got Gunstar Heroes last week from a massive selloff of about 200 other games from one seller (who now has a boatload of Sega CD/Saturn/Dreamcast stuff up if you're interested). Box and manual included. Not including shipping, I wound up paying around $31. I'm an eBay n00b, so was that too much?
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:01 pm

The Sonic Adventure updates were rush jobs, weren't they? SA1's was, at least, better written than the last few updates.


I actually didn't change much at all in the story synopses, I mainly just reworded some stuff here and there.

Actually, I've noticed on the SA1 page that none of the images load in Firefox. They come up fine in Explorer and I can't find any errors in the code - is this just me or what?

In fact several of the new comments have an even better ring, such as my new favorite line "Insufficient xerox"


I like "atramentous ectype", myself.
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Postby Segaholic2 » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:14 pm

The images load fine for me.
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Postby G.Silver » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:25 pm

I got Gunstar Heroes last week from a massive selloff of about 200 other games from one seller (who now has a boatload of Sega CD/Saturn/Dreamcast stuff up if you're interested). Box and manual included. Not including shipping, I wound up paying around $31. I'm an eBay n00b, so was that too much?


Only if you'd rather play it on your Japanese PS2.

Obviously at least one other person was willing to pay slightly less than $30 so you probably aren't the only n00b. I bought a manual-less copy of the game for a friend a few years ago and paid a little over $20 (as I recall), so for one with a manual I'd say you did pretty well.
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Postby Oompa Star » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:23 pm

Action Stages accessible from Mystic Ruin include: Windy Valley, Icecap, Red Mountain, Lost World, and Final Egg.

You forgot Sand Hill.

Beat (ビート) -- Mite-looking bots that crawl along the ground and attack en masse with wild abandon. They respawn indefinitely and can quickly overwhelm slow-moving victims. Best avoided altogether.

Actually, they stop respawning after you destroy a certain amount in each room they appear in.

On another note, doesn't anyone ever go to Amazon? That is where I shop for retro games and consoles, and of course, no bidding.
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:45 pm

You forgot Sand Hill.


Yeah, but you can only access it through Mystic Ruin once. After that you can only access it through Trial mode.
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Postby FlashTHD » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:18 pm

For the cameos, Sonic just showed up in PSU, and if you're still planning on updating the Sonic Team page, you can add to Oshima's resumé Senior Producer for Yoshi's Island DS.
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Postby big_smile » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:30 am

Green Gibbon! wrote:
Actually, I've noticed on the SA1 page that none of the images load in Firefox. They come up fine in Explorer and I can't find any errors in the code - is this just me or what?



Do you have the Adblock Plus extension installed? I couldn't see the images until I disabled it.

The problem is caused because the images are stored in a folder called "adv", which triggers the ad filter. Rename the folder to "adventure" to make the images re-appear.

^_^
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:45 am

Yop, that dooded it. I'd been wanting to change the name anyway but it seemed like too much trouble.
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Postby Oompa Star » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:08 am

Green Gibbon! wrote:Yeah, but you can only access it through Mystic Ruin once. After that you can only access it through Trial mode.

I hooked up my Dreamcast last night just to test that out and you can access Sand Hill through Mystic Ruins as many times as you want. I own the American release. Maybe you own a different version? Also, Chaos 2 can be damaged if you glide right into it's head (and after you get the fighting gloves, the maximum heat knuckle in boss attack).
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:44 am

I tested it in the Japanese original and you definitely can't get back into Sand Hill, so evidently that was something they fixed for the international release.
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Postby Cuckooguy » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:22 pm

So, I spotted a faulty fact.

The text in the Miscellanea section reads

In March 2000, Archie Comic Publications released a 48-page comic titled and loosely based on Sonic Adventure. The special was released as a supplement to their ongoing Sonic the Hedgehog comic book series.


But the problem is that they didn't create a 48-page comic based on Sonic Adventure, but made an arc spanning a couple of comics before the story was finished. The arc started on issue 79 (according to the cover), which mainly features Amy Rose's transformation and that issue is more of a prologue before adapting the Sonic Adventure story in the next issue, and it ends at issue 84.

To sum it up, it could be changed to

In March 2000, Archie Comic Publications' Sonic the Hedgehog comic issues 79-84 was loosely based on Sonic Adventure.


Or something like that.

Edit: No, you were right, I almost completely forgot about the special that was titled Sonic Adventure, apparently I suck (I stopped buying the comics at issue 80 so I never owned the special). I wonder where the special fits into the regular series arc.

Edit 2: I was reading your Nights pinball description and I was wondering if it should be notable that you can fly through those orange loop de loops around the Twin Seeds tower by accurately catapulting Sonic somewhere in the upper left corner of the second board of the Nights table.
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