All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

[Wombatwarlord777]

Why does everybody hate Sonic 3D? I loved it and still have a lot of fun with it, especially the Saturn version.

I think that has less to do with the game itself and more with the fact that its a part of the Sonic franchise.

For fans used to blitzing around as Sonic in a simple two-dimensional plane, Sonic 3D comes acrossed as an entirely different animal. You cannot simply rush straight to the goal. You must explore most parts of each level, at the risk of getting lost and eating up time. The isometic perspective requires greater care in timing your jumps and using gimmicks properly. Certaintly, it's a game that requires more dedication and thoroughness from the player, decidingly un-Sonicy traits, especially to non-hardcore gamers who never bother to look for secret endings, Chaos Emeralds, ect.

Which isn't a bad thing. While opinions of how the game itself have a broad range (I myself think it's, meh, okay), it's certaintly technologically impressive, especially on the Mega Drive. And I can only imagine that Saturn's special stages are the epitomy of thrilling speed.

[Neo]

You cannot simply rush straight to the goal. You must explore most parts of each level, at the risk of getting lost and eating up time.

Soooooo... basically everything people say the current games are missing?

And Sonic R was okay, but then it strikes you it has only 5 courses, and that every character is flat out "better" than the last.

[Crowbar]

You cannot simply rush straight to the goal. You must explore most parts of each level, at the risk of getting lost and eating up time.

Soooooo... basically everything people say the current games are missing?

The problem is that you've got no choice in the matter. In the best games, you have the OPTION of either rushing straight to the goal (though I will beat to death anybody who makes claims of "hold right" gameplay in any of the Mega Drive titles), or taking time to explore the level.

[Dasher]

I always say adventure 1 and 2 were the closest it has come to being actually good in 3d, but they failed miserably in 2006. Also the story helps determine the setting so I'm disappointed that they only think of elemental Godzillas being the main antagonist when making an "adventure type game" darn we had another one of those monsters in Unleashed didn't we? so dumb, what are they thinking?

But basically Adventure 1 was ok, and they couldve kept improving that format but no.

[Wombatwarlord777]

I'm disappointed that they only think of elemental Godzillas being the main antagonist[...]

I agree with you. Chaos was so impressive when he transformed into his impossibly big, imtimidating Perfect form. But, as you say, it's a concept that's been done to death. Worse yet, the big final bosses tend to be rather sluggish, which doesn't really jive with the series's emphasis on speed.

A fight with a small, quick and maneuverable final boss, one which keeps the player on his/her toes at all times, would probably be much more exciting. The big potential problem here is that such a battle could quickly devolve into a Sonic vs. Shadow homing attack feast if the developers aren't careful.

[Neo]

The final boss should be Eggman on a very dangerous machine. When was this notion lost?

[Radrappy]

The final boss should be Eggman on a very dangerous machine. When was this notion lost?

or metal sonic. No, not metal madness. That was an elemental monster in costume.

A fight with a small, quick and maneuverable final boss, one which keeps the player on his/her toes at all times, would probably be much more exciting. The big potential problem here is that such a battle could quickly devolve into a Sonic vs. Shadow homing attack feast if the developers aren't careful.

I think the final E-101 Beta was an amazingly well done example of what you're suggesting. (Oh man, just thinking about it, I get chills remembering the part in SA1 where Gamma stumbles onto his older brother being modified in the lab)

[Kogen]

The final boss should be Eggman on a very dangerous machine. When was this notion lost?

No, it should be a vortex time space dragon.

[Arcade]

Sonic 3D was a good game, it just wasnt a real Sonic game, it was one of those games that get the company mascot stuck it it so it sells more.

[Crowbar]

I agree with the idea that "elemental Godzillas" have become overdone as a final boss, and generally they just don't play very well, and in particular you have a completely different control scheme to the entire rest of the game.

Some parts of the Dark Gaia battles in Unleashed (both versions) look really awesome. Such as bits like this where you have to run up parts of the Gaia Collossus and can see parts of Dark Gaia in the background, or here where you're flying over the surface of that massive shield. But those parts don't necessarily look like they actually play well, and they are of course balanced out by crap like slowly flying through unthreatening obstacle courses with clunky controls, a stupid Punchout rip-off, utterly unexciting QTEs and this bullshit. Nothing breaks pacing and ruins a good mood like being told a new control scheme (except maybe karaoke song lyrics, but this is games, not anime).

The best bosses are those that force you make use of actual skills built up throughout the rest of the game, so it really feels like a climax. The Mario & Luigi games were excellent for this. I liked Devil May Cry's (the first and third) last bosses, as well (the first game had a flying shooter segment, but it was only the first part of the battle and it was still actually challenging). With Sonic the problem with the bosses is the same as the general ailment, really: nobody working on Sonic these days is able to design any aspect of a game to be good anymore, bosses included. The Rush games had a couple of decent examples but that's it, and the final bosses there were decent for their type but were still too different from the rest of the games.

[gr4yJ4Y]

I think it's okay for the bosses to be different from the main gameplay. Even in the Genesis games, you're confined to a particular area, which makes it different. I think Rush did a decent job with this, but the fight against Blaze could had been better if there wasn't any button mashing QTE. Rush Adventure's bosses strayed from this a bit too much near the end of the game.

Like Crowbar said, you shouldn't have to learn a new control scheme for boss battles. In Sonic Unleashed, controlling Chip's temple golem was slow and clunky. I think the Super Sonic portion against the defensive barrier was a good example of how final bosses can be a slight twist on the rest of the game. All that's different is that you can't jump and are able to float up and down instead of being on solid ground. What was the boast button for the rest of the game continues to be the boast button for this part. I found playing short daytime-like levels in the middle of the boss to be kind of cheesy. Why can't I just fight the boss instead of playing fragmented levels?

(On the other hand, I thought the final boss of the werehog was really well done.)

I don't know how I feel about the boss battles where you're forced to keep running the whole time. They were novel at first, but now I'm kind of tired of them, even though some of them were fairly well done.

[Crowbar]

I think it's okay for the bosses to be different from the main gameplay. Even in the Genesis games, you're confined to a particular area, which makes it different. I think Rush did a decent job with this, but the fight against Blaze could had been better if there wasn't any button mashing QTE.

I actually liked the QTE in that battle in Rush. It felt like a natural way to end it rather than just bein shoehorned in for no good reason.

[Wombatwarlord777]

A big part of the problem is that it seems the final battle is always between Super / Super-form Sonic and Overwhelming Huge Antagonist. Super Sonic, goddammit, just can't seem to operate like regular ol' Sonic on steroids anymore. He always has to fly and charge up Super Saiyan-esque blasts. As if Super Sonic already wasn't a blatant rip of DBZ.

The boss is no better. Half the time, you can't even damage them directly (as you can with both Perfect Chaos and the Final Hazard). It seems you always need to avoid their projectile, build up energy, find the boss's weak point, attack, and repeat. Instead of being the action-packed climax (as final bosses were in S3+K and the Adventures), the final boss is nowadays an increasingly predictable chore. That's why I usually prefer the pen-ultimate boss fought by Sonic nowadays.

I consider the Perfect Chaos battle to the perfect example of how a 3D Super Sonic fight should be. It has several key elements: A preceeding twist in the story, a great environment and atmosphere for the fight (not in some vast expanse of nothingness), a Super Sonic who controls more-or-less like normal Sonic, direct attacks on the boss, boss attacks which demand quick reaction time, and an overall challenging difficulty. If any new final boss were to have all these characteristics, I'd be more than willing to give it a try.

Of course, another possibility is have regular Sonic fight the final boss. As Crowbar mentioned, such a fight wouldn't depend on an entirely new control scheme, but rather the moves the player has mastered over the course of the game. And it'd make Sonic more of an impressive figure. Who needs super-powers when you're already bad enough to take anything out?

[Dasher]

Sonic seems to be all about speed now a days, if you ask me you should leave the overwhelming speed to super and hyper Sonic not Normal Sonic..make Sonic too fast and the platforming elements suffer a great deal,
reminds me of Sadv2, that game all you had to do was hold right, ugh. Rush was similar but had more imaginative elements to it which made it fun.

Sonic Adventure and 2 (but mainly SA1) had the right speed and decent platforming as well as some different pathways you could take here and there, it was genius! and should have been expanded in later
games...but all they seem to keep expanding is on Speed, speed and more speed! and giant Lizards (not to mention were wolfs,vehicles, aliens and guns just to name a few)

[P.P.A.]

I personally found all bosses in Rush with the exception of the last one to be utterly rubbish and some of the most annoying in all of 2D Sonic. Cheap insta-death attacks, prolonged periods in which you can do nothing but idle and perhaps avoid the repetitive and far too drawn out attack patterns, and of course "HEY SONIC" "OH NO SONIC" "YOU DID IT SONIC" "ALRIGHT SONIC" "SONIC SONIC" in the most annoying tone any Tails VA has ever produced.

As for Super Sonic, aside from disliking him in any game but Sonic R and in the initial concept anyway, I agree that his dominance of all final bosses ever since SA is very unwelcome. Although my reasons for disliking this don't differ from the above; the altered control scheme all of a sudden, the loss of impressiveness, the distraction of the coolness of the character of Sonic (as it's implied he in his normal form is unable to be victorious)... And, yeah, elemental godzillas. Aside from space lizard and alien devil and space/time god, they've got water, fire, and earth beasts covered now. My bet is that the final boss battle in the next main Sonic game will take place above the clouds against some wind dragon thing or whatever, I couldn't care less. Needs more epic Robotnik battle.

[Zeta]

I'm totally calling Nimbus the Dragon of the Hurricane that Eggman unleashes as the boss in Project Needlemouse now.

[Dasher]

Correct, that is the last element left....or is it?

[P.P.A.]

HEART

Amy Rose is actually an ancient goddess of love worshipped by an ancient civilisation that died out 8000 years ago but Dr. Robotnik showed her the Sonic OVA with Sarah and it made her rage and now she ate the Chaos Emeralds and transformed into Heart Amy and is sniffing the universe!!!!

[P.P.A.]

HEART

Amy Rose is actually an ancient goddess of love worshipped by an ancient civilisation that died out 8000 years ago but Dr. Robotnik showed her the Sonic OVA with Sarah and it made her rage and now she ate the Chaos Emeralds and transformed into Heart Amy and is sniffing the universe!!!!

Cursed post edit time limit.

*Amy Rose is actually an ancient golem goddess of love worshipped by an ancient civilisation that died out 13085 years ago but Dr. Robotnik showed her the Sonic OVA with Sarah flirting with Sonic and it made her rage and now she ate the Chaos Emeralds and transformed into Heart Golem Deus Amy and is headbutting all the planets in the universe to dust so Super Sonic has to find the seven Latex Rings to defeat her!!!!

[Wombatwarlord777]

You know, some people consider Light to be a classical element, too...

One day, Doctor Eggman takes a break from his usual world-conquering follies and eats a hot-beef sandwich. Unbeknownst to him, the sandwich is infected by Lester, the Tapeworm Prince of Light. Once inside, Lester burrows into Eggman's brain, causing Eggie to consume tubs of strawberry yogurt non-stop. The worm's nefarious scheme is to make Eggman's weight collaspe on itself, triggering a prophesized galaxy-destroying supernova.

After an emotional intervention on the Dr. Phil show fails to stop Eggman from stuffing his fat ass, Sonic is left with no choice but to go into his arch-rival and take out Lester himself. Can you help Sonic save all of existance before his shrink beams wear off?

I'll bet they could release three seperate games with that story arc.

[Frieza2000]

Erazor could fill the wind elemental spot, but he wasn't a dragon. Nimbus would provide more closure.

Solaris could be the dragon of light, and the final boss of Black Knight could be the dragon of darkness. Soon we'll have to start delving into the lesser elements like lightning, cold, and plutonium.

[Zeta]

You know, some people consider Light to be a classical element, too...

One day, Doctor Eggman takes a break from his usual world-conquering follies and eats a hot-beef sandwich. Unbeknownst to him, the sandwich is infected by Lester, the Tapeworm Prince of Light. Once inside, Lester burrows into Eggman's brain, causing Eggie to consume tubs of strawberry yogurt non-stop. The worm's nefarious scheme is to make Eggman's weight collaspe on itself, triggering a prophesized galaxy-destroying supernova.

After an emotional intervention on the Dr. Phil show fails to stop Eggman from stuffing his fat ass, Sonic is left with no choice but to go into his arch-rival and take out Lester himself. Can you help Sonic save all of existance before his shrink beams wear off?

I'll bet they could release three seperate games with that story arc.

Isn't that mostly the plot of Mario and Luigi 3?

[Wombatwarlord777]

Soon we'll have to start delving into the lesser elements like lightning, cold, and plutonium.

Now you've gone and made this serious discussion silly. >:(

Although I guess Metal Sonic in Heroes could be considered a lightning elemental, although it's a bit of a stretch.

[Neo]

I thought he was more of a POWER OF TEAMWORK element. Except he was all the team members at once.

[Zeta]

Soon we'll have to start delving into the lesser elements like lightning, cold, and plutonium.

Now you've gone and made this serious discussion silly. >:(

Although I guess Metal Sonic in Heroes could be considered a lightning elemental, although it's a bit of a stretch.

He's a Metal Elemental. Duh.