Poly Sonic

Post by **G.Silver** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:01 am

I was passing this (my latest 3D model still in progress) around a bit on AIM for input on what's wrong with Sonic's face (the leading suggestion is that his eyes aren't big enough) and Segaholic suggested I just post it here, after all the GHZ is home to the meanest, nastiest, most scrutinizingest Sonic fans around, so I figure what do I need self esteem for? It's not finished but let'er rip anyway.

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Owen Axel · Post by **Owen Axel** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:38 am

Methinks the ears should be pointing more upwards and nose be slightly larger. The lowered eye thing can work if he's supposed to look pissed.

Apart from that, really nice work.

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:42 am

The eyes are too squashed down, the nose is a little too small and the shape and size of the spines looks more like classic Sonic (but for all I know you could be going for that).

Good stuff though regardless.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:24 am

I think the main problem is that it FUCKING SUCKS, loser.

In addition to the other suggestions, I'd recommend thinning the brow and ears a bit. What program was this constructed in?

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:26 pm

That is the worst model of Tails I've ever seen.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:35 pm

If it's any help, here's an image of the SADX Model, which I got ages ago for no apparent reason (I also have the Heroes Models, too, sans Vector):

<img src="http://blazefire.mooglecavern.com/sadx_correct.jpg">

Mainly the eyes and the ears, I'd say. Ears need to be a little farther up and angled to fit, and the eyes need to be wider vertically.

Wish I could model. :P I can barely texture. (Painting the textures is fine, it's just unwrapping the model I have trouble with)

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:36 pm

Well, besides the obvious stuff, it might be a good idea to connect the head and the body together, but that's just my opinion. >_^

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:21 pm

Kinda looks like sonic erectus.
(waits for petty sexual reference)

Post by **Popcorn** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:39 pm

I don't suppose the (superb) SA2 Sonic model is out there anywhere, is it? I'm guessing not, since it hasn't had a PC port (yet).

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:58 pm

I didn't like the SA2 model as much. Sonic's torso was too long.

Post by **Popcorn** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:18 pm

Ohh, I really, really like it. He was slinky and dynamic, less bolbous-- and much closer to the original SA1 Uekewa design.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:40 pm

I also prefer the SA2 to the SA design.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:11 pm

As far as I can tell, the SA2 model and the SADX model are the same thing.

Segata · Post by **Segata** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:44 pm

I feel like such a nerd just reading this thread.

Cool looking model, though.

J.E.Smith · Post by **J.E.Smith** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:41 pm

Actually, all the SADX models were just the SA models touched up a bit to look more like the SA2 models.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:42 pm

BlazeHedgehog wrote:If it's any help, here's an image of the SADX Model, which I got ages ago for no apparent reason (I also have the Heroes Models, too, sans Vector):

WHERE ARE THEY?!!

Post by **G.Silver** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:48 am

Thanks for the input! The model is based on my own drawings (which aren't perfect either..) so although I could say I was going for more of a 16-bit Sonic look, it's just how I like to draw him. I'll be changing the eyes for sure, though I kinda like having the ears sticking out a bit, we'll see how it goes. Converting my sketches straight into 3D wasn't getting the right feel though.

WHERE ARE THEY?!!

Weren't they on Sonic Cult? Anyway, if you could post the Sonic model at least, I'd like to compare with that too. Seeing the model like that is actually pretty helpful, I'd like to see what they did differently for Heroes..

What program was this constructed in?

3D Studio MAX 5. Better to not ask where I got it..

Wish I could model. :P I can barely texture. (Painting the textures is fine, it's just unwrapping the model I have trouble with)

Unwrapping is the absolute WORST thing about modelling except maybe when 3DS crashes and takes your unsaved work with it (perhaps while you are unwrapping, even). I actually bought a little side-program that makes it a bit easier, but it still makes me scream "There has got to be a better way!" I'm guessing professionals just pay someone with more patience to do it for them. I got started with 3DS by just going through the included tutorials. Every previous attempt to use a 3D program had pretty much ended with me giving up and frustrated, but the final time I just stayed frustrated and didn't give up. I would have thought I'd never get the hang of it but it turns out it's pretty doable, I think you just have to hang in there long enough for it to click properly.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:17 am

http://blazefire.mooglecavern.com/sekri ... oes_dx.zip -

Sonic.3ds, and Sonic.png are Sonic in his Sonic Heroes incarnation, plus textures. sadx_2.ms3d is kinda-sorta SADX Sonic. See, I think it was ripped by one of the Cult guys - but I found the SADX "model", except it was missing arms and legs. So, I cut and paste the arms and legs from Sonic Heroes on to the SADX head/torso. I also tried to give him bones, but I can't get any verticies to "stick" to the bones for some reason, so I think I'm gonna give that up for the moment.

I apologize if 3DSMax won't open MS3D; MS3D (MilkShape 3D) is the model editor I goof around with (a friend let me use his serial).

The only program I've tried for automated unwrapping is LithUnwrap (perhaps what you're using is the new version of LithUnwrap; see, LithUnwrap is the free version. Once it went pay, it became 3Dunwrap or some such nonsense). Either way, it's crap, yeah.

Titan · Post by **Titan** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:00 am

Green Gibbon! wrote:As far as I can tell, the SA2 model and the SADX model are the same thing.

I think the SADX one is still a bit shorter. And the shoes are different, obviously.

Post by **Popcorn** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:01 am

As far as I can tell, the SA2 model and the SADX model are the same thing.

They're absolutely, completely totally not. The SADX model is just a slightly retouched version of the SA original-- the SA2 model is taller, slimmer, has way more polygons and a completely different set of (totally kickin' rad) animations. I loved him to bits, and I've no idea why they made such a downgrade for Heroes-- the Heroes models are all really low-poly and weird and rubbery and bad.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:14 am

3D Studio MAX 5. Better to not ask where I got it..

How different is that from Maya? It seems that's what the grand majority of game companies use... most require at least 4 years of experience with 3D Studio Max. I like to pretend that knowledge of Maya will make 3D Studio Max easy to get into.

I've no idea why they made such a downgrade for Heroes-- the Heroes models are all really low-poly and weird and rubbery and bad

Well, they had to fit three characters on screen at a time in Heroes, plus a whole lot more background shit.

Post by **Popcorn** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:38 am

Okay, well, that did occur to me, but I said I had no idea anyway. Luckily Heroes justified its crappy low-poly models by putting its three-character gimmick to such ingeniously rewarding use.

Dache · Post by **Dache** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:58 am

Green Gibbon! wrote: Well, they had to fit three characters on screen at a time in Heroes, plus a whole lot more background shit.

The three consoles Heroes came out on are, at worst, a fair amount more powerful than the Dreamcast, and at best, are a lot more powerful than the Dreamcast.

Considering the DC could handle three high-poly characters on screen at once in a low-poly environment in the cut-scenes (the desert one sticks out in my mind) at 30 FPS, I think the PS2 and all the others could've handled it fine at 60FPS. Heroes' levels don't look anywhere near as good as SA2's -- they're comparable to SA1's in everything except size and draw distance.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:52 am

It's not as easy as that. It's ridiculous how much characters slow things down, even simple ones. To have three on screen at a time, basically all moving independent of each other, is extremely taxing on the hardware if they wanted to maintain a consistent frame rate. It's also a matter of pragmatism: in reality, the camera is rarely close enough for the player to distinguish just how low-poly the models are, you can usually only tell during those ridiculous win poses. Plus there is a significant difference in power between the PS2 and the other two consoles, and since it was intended for release on all three, it also wouldn't have been pragmatic to program extra features that only one or two of the consoles would've been able to handle. It can only be as strong as the weakest link.

Not that I'm trying to defend Heroes or anything, just saying.

Post by **Popcorn** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:05 am

SA1 seemed to do okay with Sonic and Tails.