Do you dream in 2D?

MiraiTails · Post by **MiraiTails** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:04 pm

I just read this somewhat old article in which the author suggests that Sega make a new, non-handheld, 2D Sonic game. I would love to see what could be done on a console like the 360. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on the possibilities. How could 2D Sonic be improved (ruined?) on modern hardware?

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:06 pm

It'd probably be another fairly generic Sonic sidescroller with very nice, but uninspired graphics.

cjmcray · Post by **cjmcray** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:30 pm

Or, a complete innovastion, and return to form for Sonic.

A shocking thought, I agree.

Simply remake Sonic's 1-2 with next-gen graphics.

I'd love to see Chemical Plant Zone, or Lava Reef Zone, Act 3 using the power of the 360 or Ps3.

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:39 pm

2D levels and characters modeled in 3D. It has worked with beautiful results before, it will most certainly work for Sonic.

And if they're going to do anything along those lines, they need to sit the programmers down, give them an emulator with Sonic 2 or something, and have them study the ins and outs of the old physics ultra meticulously so they can make certain it controls as closely to the Genesis games as possible. It can't imagine it'd be anything more than a little time consuming, and it's not like there's any other way to do it given how Sega treats old source code.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:40 pm

They couldn't even port Sonic 1 to the GBA properly.

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:41 pm

Oh I forgot, they also have to not hire nitwits to do their coding chores.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:25 pm

It'll just end up being a 'HOLD RIGHT AND JUMP OCCASIONALLY' sort of game.

cjmcray · Post by **cjmcray** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:58 pm

Was the Sonic 1 GBA port done by Sonic Team? Or did SEGA get somebody else to do it?

As bad as recent Sonic games, such as Shadow and 2K6 have been, I think Sonic Team still has the ability to make a really good 2D game.

Instead of a 2D/3D mix, i'd rather it be in the vain of the original Rayman.

James McGeachie · Post by **James McGeachie** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:03 pm

As bad as recent Sonic games, such as Shadow and 2K6 have been, I think Sonic Team still has the ability to make a really good 2D game.

Keeping in mind of course that absolutely none of the team members that actually worked on the classic 2d titles are still within Sonic Team...

...okay well...maybe Jun Senoue I guess...but he doesn't count

cjmcray · Post by **cjmcray** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:09 pm

..Oh.

Well, crap.

KitsuneDarkStalker · Post by **KitsuneDarkStalker** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:25 pm

I would like a 4D Sonic game, where Sonic is time. Sonic is space. Sonic is your emotions. Sonic is your darkest secrets. Sonic is the reason of life.

That'd be a great game.

Ritz · Post by **Ritz** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:53 pm

Sonic Rez?

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:54 pm

Only on the PS3!

Opa-Opa · Post by **Opa-Opa** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:58 am

I guess the closest to a good new 2D Sonic I played was Sonic Advance 1. But obviously it's not even close to any of the Genesis games.

Well, maybe Sonic 3D Blast.

But I think you've hit the spot there. Those guys on Sonic Team maybe never even played the old Sonic games. Everyone is so friggin' young in that thing!

MiraiTails · Post by **MiraiTails** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:26 pm

Let's say that Sonic Team is incapable of making another great 2D Sonic game. What other team(s) would you like to see give it a try? (They don't have to be part of Sega.)

Radrappy · Post by **Radrappy** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:40 pm

2D? Treasure. Hands down.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:11 pm

I dunno, there's a pretty wide selection of competent 2D gaming companies... Capcom, Konami and SNK come to mind, in addition to Treasure. And then, there's that topic Ngangibus made showcasing an absolutely drop-dead gorgeous 2D game from some company I've never heard of and/or can't remember (I know of Atlus, but seeing as they're only translating, they don't count). Pretty wide selection, I'd say.

That said, I'd lean toward Treasure, too, just to see what kind of spin they'd put on the franchise... plus, this is a company that took Ronald McDonald and actually made a good game out of him. Somehow. God knows what kind of soul-binding contract they had to do to pull that off.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:48 pm

And then, there's that topic Ngangibus made showcasing an absolutely drop-dead gorgeous 2D game from some company I've never heard of and/or can't remember (I know of Atlus, but seeing as they're only translating, they don't count).

Vanilliaware and I think Odin Sphere is a co-production as Atlus makes their own games too.

And yes, I would look to see a 2D Sonic game that looks as beautiful as Odin Sphere. Can't Sega, at least farm out to Arc Works Soft for a graphical engine?

KitsuneDarkStalker · Post by **KitsuneDarkStalker** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:55 pm

If they did this, it'd be awesome.

Professor Machenstein · Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:21 pm

Ah, yes. The true successor of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I say it should be sprite based. Take the graphical style of Ristar, the art direction of Sonic CD, the gameplay of S3&K, add some minor enchancements to the formula, and you have... Sonic 4. I think it could be done for the Wii, what with the classic controller and such. The levels should be large and plentiful, each with its own unique theme, robots and level mechanics. That means no reusing things from the previous levels (I'm looking at you, Sonic Advance)! If there are multiple characters, design the levels with each of their abilities in mind. Bottomless pits should be scarce and easy to avoid. Oh, and enable Super Sonic to be playable in all levels again. I could go on, but we all get the idea. Sonic 4. Foooooooooour.

Speaking of 2D, what about Super Paper Mario? In the 2D perspective, does it play like the classic Mario games in which you hold B to speed up and A to bound off enemies, or does it control/feel differently? I wonder if it has the same slippery physics.

cjmcray · Post by **cjmcray** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:22 pm

It should graphically, look like this, only instead of just a colorful jpeg background, the world would be really alive. It'd be a more pumped up version of this, utilizing the technology of next-gen consoles.

This is how the game would be:

Title: Sonic World
Platform: Xbox360/Ps3
Rating: E

Story: Eggman has set his empire and is enslaving the inhabitants of Sonic's home! To save it, Sonic must find the seven Chaos Emeralds, spread throughout Sonic's world. In his quest to find them, Sonic must traverse over 40+ levels of speed and action, meeting characters new and old, and forming alliances, (or rivalries!) explore strange lands in your ongoing search for the emeralds, or help the citizens. Get ready to live life through Sonic's shoes!

Worlds:

-Jungle Land
Partner you encounter: Tails
Description: Basic jungle level
boss: Fang

-Metropolis Speedway Zone
Partner you encounter: Amy Rose
Description: Think a world like Chemical Plant from Sonic 2. Some levels have you in underwater areas (you're not in water, rather you're in a floor of a building that's underwater, which you can see through the windows.)
boss: Rouge the Bat

Random Boss Battle!
Eggman: Egg Launcher
Description: Eggman is in a flying tank, shooting missles. Defeat him.

-Volcanic Flame Zone
Partner you encounter: E-102 Gamma
Description: One of Eggman's bases, set in a volcano on a tropical island.
boss: Egg-Robo

-Endless Forest Zone
Partner you Encounter: none
Description: A foggy, haunted forest. Creepy old houses and such.
boss: Shadow

Random Boss Battle!
Description: You are in a pit in a cavern. Eggman is at the bottom, in a machine with spikes protuding form it. Jump from the pillars left to right, to make it to the top, without falling onto Eggman. Kinda like the boss from Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1.

-Carnival Cat Zone
Description: A carnival island.
Partner you encounter: Cream
boss: Blaze

-Snowy Plain Zone
Partner you encounter: none
Description: A snowy mountainous region
boss: None. Avalanche you must run from.

-Time Tear Zone (tare, not tear)
Partner you Encounter: none
Description: future world.
bosses: Silver & Dark Super Sonic

Random Boss Battle!
Egg-Trial
Description: All of Eggman's classic bots. First it's the Sonic 1 checkered ball, next it's the car from Sonic 2, finally it's the fire spewing one from Sonic 3.

-Echindaopolis
Description: Echinda world from the Tikal visions in SA1
Partner(s) you can encounter: Tikal or Knuckles
boss: Chaos

-Egg Base
Partner you encounter: Tails
Description: Eggman's labs. missions include freeing captives. Later on you must save Amy and stop Eggman from launching his missles across Sonic's world. Classic Sonic VS Giant Robot final boss.
boss: Metal Sonic

It would have the basics mechanics of the Sonic games of yore, only would be a complete reinvention, and introduce a bunch of new things, rather than a simple rehash of a Genesis game.

It'd be more story-oriented than prior Sonic 2D games, and you'd be given choices.

Like Super Mario World, levels would take place on a giant map, and there'd be tons of levels. Now and then, you'll encounter new characters, and be given choices if you want to team-up with them or not, which can either be good or bad (The character in question might work for Eggman, and be scheming behind your back, and later steal your emeralds, lives, and make you go way off-track on the game map.)

New paths and levels open up on the game map if you take on a mission given to you by one of the inhabitants of Sonic's world. (For example: meet an elderly echinda in one level, who's daughter is being held captive, he gives you a map to find her, and a new path opens on the game map, revealing new levels and a new boss. As a reward for saving her, a new option is available in extras mode.

The only real playable character is Sonic, but when teaming-up with a partner, (Partners include Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Cream) you can switch to that character on the fly, with Sonic following. The original characters that you don't know if you should trust or not, are unplayable, and follow. There is still a large amount of Sonic-only levels.

The world would be huge, and there would be towns, jungles, volcanic bases, snowy mountains, labrotories, etc.

Like I said, actual levels would play like the Genesis games, only the way they are set-up on the game map is different, and there is more story.

It would be a long game, and feature a wide variety of villains, in each land, such as Fang, in the jungle world (Bounty hunter for Eggman, who tries to hunt Sonic, and captures citizens Sonic must free. He shows up a lot in levels, ala Knuckles in Sonic 3, causing Sonic problems. He is the main boss once you complete each level in the land. Metal Sonic, (Guard of Eggman's base, who shows up frequently in levels. He is the the boss you'll encounter right before the final showdown with Eggman) Rouge, (A jewel thief in the city land, who is responsible for thefts and is working as an agent for Eggman. She is the main boss of the city land.) and others.
(Egg-robo in Volcanic land, Shadow in Creepy Forest)

There are various 'Tails shops' scattered across the land, which act as a store/warp points, where you can warp to prior lands without spending an hour backtracking, or buy gadgets with the orbs you collect from destroyed robots, such as spring shoes, which make you jump higher, invisiblity shield, which lets you walk through walls, and opens up new paths in levels, or moves such as fire kick, or power gloves, which let you unleash an electric blast on all the enemies onscreen. (all the moves from the Genesis games are standard in levels, as is the lightning orb, the fire orb, and speed shoes. Only original moves/items are avilable in Tails shop.)

Cutscenes would be FMV's, like Sonic Shuffle's.

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:46 pm

Professor Machenstein wrote:Ah, yes. The true successor of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I say it should be sprite based. Take the graphical style of Ristar, the art direction of Sonic CD

On a new console 2D Sonic game? These days? I can't think of any reason to go to that amount of trouble. They would have to make an effort to make it look like a game that belongs on current-gen hardware and not either the DS/PSP or the Genesis/SNES.

I think it could be done for the Wii, what with the classic controller and such.

Yes it could, and it'd be preferable too, but the normal controller on it's own can handle a classic 3-button-or-less Sonic game perfectly fine without the aid of that awkward mutant SNES/PS1 pad. D-Pad for movement, 2 for jump actions, 1 for attack actions, the B trigger for special actions, and motion tilt only for certain scripted action sequences.

Oh, and enable Super Sonic to be playable in all levels again.

Sorry, I gotta stab you just for that :(

Now that cray mentions it, it would be pretty slick to incorporate an SMW world map in each zone provided every act is long and different in some way. That'd provide incentive to make multiple act exits too.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:51 pm

What version of Rayman lets you have 12 hit points? Last I checked, the max was five (barring Rayman Advance, which, IIRC, has a max of six since the minimum was raised to four).

cjmcray · Post by **cjmcray** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:55 pm

idk, it was just a screenshot I found on a Google search.

KitsuneDarkStalker · Post by **KitsuneDarkStalker** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:03 pm

LOLZ....you can HAXOR things with a HEX EDITOR you know...

On a slightly more serious note, I'd even settle for a graphically updated version of the old Sonic games, done in 3D side-scroller style.