Sonic the Hedgehog 360 defecation station

Jack Bz · Post by **Jack Bz** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:17 am

Zeta wrote:I can say the worst thing about this game is the slide attack, which is quite possibly a suckier version of the somersault attack. Press the action button at any time, and Sonic will half-assedly slowly slide along the ground like he's floating with his leg punched out. Not so bad, but get this - you can't STOP the attack. Not by jumping, not with the control stick, not anything. You're essentially frozen for about 8 seconds until the attack ends and you can actually do something else. It totally fucking sucks, especially since you start out with a moderately useful spin-kick attack that's later "upgraded" into the slide attack.

You CAN stop it, by pressing X. You can also do the spin kick by tapping X, and the slide kick by holding X down for a very small amount of time then letting go. They are both quite usefull in certain situations.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:34 am

Hybrid wrote:Sonic is selling on the 360. Not well, but it is. I don't see why you'd expect it not to sell at all on the PS3.

I think what Rolken meant by Sonic is "not selling" is that it is not selling a lot to be considered a financially successful game for the franchise which is most likely true when you consider the licensing fees, VA fees, advertising fees, etc.

I know the PS3 version will sell, but as I said before it won't sell enough to be considered a success.

It would be great if this would be the game that would prompt Sega to take better care of the franchise and possibly do some extensive bug testing on upcoming 3D Sonic games. However, this probably won't happen and the full game of Sonic Rings could unfortunately have game killing bugs of its own. =/

Rolken · Post by **Rolken** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:49 am

Hybrid wrote:In contrast, I know quite a few people who played Sonic as one of their first video games and are still quite interested in the series. Much as my internet-fansite based assumption may not be an accurate representation of everyone in real life, neither is your assumption based on that one guy you know.

However, my assumption has the advantage of being consistent with the general reality.

Hybrid wrote:Sonic is selling on the 360. Not well, but it is.

Er... ok? I'll concede that there are copies of Sonic06 that are in fact being exchanged for money and taken home and played. But if 38k in sales for Sega's premiere franchise isn't an unmitigated disaster... what is? If managed properly the series should be selling at least in the hundreds of thousands, which means that Sega underperformed by an order of magnitude.

Hybrid wrote:I don't see why you'd expect it not to sell at all on the PS3. There will always be plenty of spoilt little kids in the world, much as there will always be older gamers who are willing to give "that new Sonic game" a try because they remember Sonic being a decent series back in the day. Mind you, I don't expect it to be much more of a hit on the PS3 than it was on the 360.

I don't necessarily expect it to sell precipitously worse on a percentage basis. But with the PS3 having an install base less than a tenth of the 360's right now, even selling as well as the 360 version would translate to about 3,000 sales. That's just absurdly tiny, and I doubt it'd even recoup the cost of porting it to the PS3, as well as what Ngangbius pointed out.

Hybrid wrote:All I know is that I've seen people, primarily on GameFAQs, proclaiming that they're getting a PS3 for the supposed "finished" version of this game, and other people who are getting it for the PS3 even though they don't believe it will be any different. If you've got a bigger sample crowd that you'd like to use to prove the game will bomb even more than on the 360, then I'd like to see it.

The size of your 'sample crowd' means nothing when it's a skewed sample. As I said, Sonic fansites tend to have Sonic fans, and this whole "it's going to be fixed on PS3" concept is a uniquely online delusion.

Hybrid · Post by **Hybrid** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Rolken wrote:However, my assumption has the advantage of being consistent with the general reality.

You know only one person who likes this series. I know a few. How is your assumption any more "consistent with reality" than mine?

I don't necessarily expect it to sell precipitously worse on a percentage basis. But with the PS3 having an install base less than a tenth of the 360's right now, even selling as well as the 360 version would translate to about 3,000 sales. That's just absurdly tiny, and I doubt it'd even recoup the cost of porting it to the PS3, as well as what Ngangbius pointed out.

You're forgetting that the PS3 is only out in America and Japan. Nowhere else in the world has it yet. Obviously the PS3 userbase isn't going to be as large as the 360's right off the bat, but there'll be far more than 3,000 sales once the rest of the world gets their hands on the console.

The size of your 'sample crowd' means nothing when it's a skewed sample. As I said, Sonic fansites tend to have Sonic fans, and this whole "it's going to be fixed on PS3" concept is a uniquely online delusion.

Er, my original statement was:

"Half, if not more, of the Sonic fanbase would be willing to shell out $600 for a console just to play a broken game with Sonic's face on it."

Where would I get a better idea of what the Sonic fanbase is like than on a forum where Sonic fans tend to congregate? The fanbase is a sort of community, and a big forum is a great place to get an idea of what the community is thinking. Since I'm assuming most Sonic06 sales are going to people within the Sonic fanbase, it seems to make sense to ask them what they think about getting it on the PS3, surely.

You don't have to tell me how much the game blows, I'm not disputing that. But when games like ShTH can sell by the truckload, I just wouldn't put any feat of stupidity past a large portion of Sonic's fans.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:57 pm

Wait, how can you compare this game's future sales on the PS3 to Shadow's success when Shadow the Hedgehog...

a)had the advantage of being released on a system that skewed to a younger demograph(a.k.a. majority of Sonic fans)--this is where most of its sales came from

b)and that system retailed for $99 at the time

c)had a worldwide install base of 21 million

d)was released in November(one of the busiest) as opposed to late January

Even with the stupid Sonic Defense Force, the mostly likely scenario of this game moving a million units worldwide combined on both systems is probably both a pricedrop on said consoles and the game getting discounted by retailers. Even with that, who knows how long it would take--especially with the word of mouth this game has and assuming Sonic Rings is actually good.

Heck, I'm willing to bet that a lot of Sonic fans are even not shelling $200 for a PSP just to play the supposedly superior Sonic Rivals. I have a feeling that game is selling as poorly as your average PSP title despite the Sonic brand.

Post by **Esrever** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:59 pm

I don't really understand what you guys are arguing about at all. Sonic fans don't significantly propel the sale of $600 hardware. Sonic fans are primarily under the age of 12!

The reason Sonic06 tanked for the 360, and the reason it's going to tank just as bad on the PS3, is because the average PS3/360 owner is too old to give a crap about this game. They should have waited until the consoles had a broader (and younger) install base.

Older Sonic fans like us are a vast, vast, VAST minority of the people who purchase these games, and the dismal sales of Sonic compared to the huge sales of Shadow are proof of this. No one's mom is buying them Sonic06 for Christmas.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:54 am

I've been hearing rumors that the PS3 version might actually be heavily fixed... mostly spurred from a recent (pulled) 1Up review which gave the version a higher score than the 360 version. I know, we shouldn't cite reviews here, but it's the general thought that the PS3 version might be (somewhat) fixed here that's important, not 1Up's review.

Me? I'll believe it when I see it. Allegedly most of the glitches have been ironed out and the load times cut down to nothingness, but I find it hard to believe given a scant few months and a somewhat slower disc drive than the 360s (although given all that space on Blu-Ray, I suppose they could just keep the data nearer to the center of the disc, meaning less travel time).

Of course, we have, like, a month or so before we'll know either way, but I'm not getting my hopes up like others are.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:13 am

Are we sure that the 1up.com Sonic review was legit, though? I mean, any idiot can link to a page that doesn't exist anymore. Somebody did it last week on 4chan, linking to a non-existant page on Gamespot about a PS3 port of Dead Rising called "Dead Rising X".

Radrappy · Post by **Radrappy** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:10 pm

yes please stop with the teasing about this game. I refuse to get my hopes up even a bit anymore about a game already released to get much better. As if sonic team in its state could ever take a hint.

Post by **big_smile** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:36 pm

Hari Hari has the Japanese PlayStation 3 version and has also complained of long loading times. He has not played the 360 version, but, according to him, Japanese fans have yet to identify any significant differences between the two releases.

He has yet to complete the game, but he thinks it is unlikely that the PS3 edition contains any of the deleted content (such as the Super Emerald, the alternative ending and Silver's speed chip).

Protodude · Post by **Protodude** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:53 pm

There was deleted content? Is that why this game has downloadable content?

Also, I noticed in the manual there was a section about downloadable content. Did anyone else know this? I thought the content was PS3 exclusive, plus there's nothing in the game that takes you to Xbox Live.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:50 pm

There doesn't really need to be anything in the game to take you to Xbox Live; you do that yourself on the dashboard, heading right into the Xbox Live Marketplace and downloading the add-ons (like horse armor for Oblivion) from there, sometimes for a fee (again, like horse armor).

Protodude · Post by **Protodude** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:04 pm

Oh. Well, I don't currently have Xbox Live so I thought it worked like it did on the original Xbox.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:04 am

BTW, I rented it recently (well, okay, Dad did on my behalf, but whatever)... nothing new to say here, everything that could be said already has been.

That said, I'm somewhat inclined to finish it even still... I just wish the game was better, really, since it has a few good things going for it - good things held back with a metal chain by all the bad things there are. I probably wouldn't want to buy it.

I have to wonder, though, why exactly the controls feel so much worse now than they did in Adventure, where they felt entirely natural... I mean, you keep all your momentum when you push in another direction, which is certainly suspect, when IIRC Adventure made you skid to a stop before turning around and running that way. (It's been a while, I'll need to do a comparison later.) Either way, every time I'm presented with a teeny-tiny platform to land on (say, those girders Silver uses to hop around Crisis City), it's rather unnerving, since what would work fine in any other game is exceedingly difficult here.

And of course, the mission load times require yet another mention. Seriously, you don't have to load THE ENTIRE LEVEL to have one animation and a small amount of text, and if you're going to load that much stuff at that point, might as well load the mission too, instead of having a separate load time for that.

Like I said, nothing new to say.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:59 am

Shadow Hog wrote:And of course, the mission load times require yet another mention. Seriously, you don't have to load THE ENTIRE LEVEL to have one animation and a small amount of text, and if you're going to load that much stuff at that point, might as well load the mission too, instead of having a separate load time for that.

Like I said, nothing new to say.

It really is boggling as to why they go through the process of reloading the entire scene for something that probably amounts to 200kb of data.

"Hey! I've got a great idea. Let's reload 64mb of level data three times just so we can process 200kb of mission scripting information."

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:10 pm

Nobody's mentioned 2P as of yet; allow me to fill this void here.

I've only played Tag (which should really be called "co-op" since that's what it is), but it's enough to give me a general idea. In short, it's terrible. Both players share lives, so progress is limited to however long it takes for the crappier player to lose all the lives available. The camera is even MORE of an issue, because you've only got half the screen now with which to see where you're going. The result is even more missing information than in 1P, which makes making progress even more frustrating than it was to begin with. Other than that, all the flaws of 1P are there, so...

Only seen two stages: Wave Ocean and Dusty Desert. I played Dusty Desert; for one thing, it looks nothing like the Dusty Desert I'd actually played through with Sonic and Elise "combining their power" (*scoff*) - or dying trying. No, it's completely underground, and has evil fire monsters which I'd not even encountered at this point of the game; I'll just chalk this up to it being another hedgehog's mission instead of Sonic's. For another thing, though, the path it makes you take forces you to go into this room with giant waves of sand constantly attacking you. It's an absolute bear to get through; pretty much all of the platforms are too high to jump back on if you miss (although thankfully I did NOT see bottomless pits here), many are low enough that you can get hit by the sand waves even still, and at least one jump - one near the end of that particular room - is incredibly hard to accurately make (plus it's from a high platform to one low enough for the sand to get you - not fun). Plus, it shoves tons of spiked balls in your face with the sand waves, which were apparently constantly killing my partner (little brother, see). By the time I had cleared the room, he was pretty much about to lose our last life.

So yeah... don't play two-player. One-player's bad enough.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:39 pm

Two Player Dusty Desert sounds like Shadow's version once you get off the hover thing.

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:13 am

(say, those girders Silver uses to hop around Crisis City)

The ones you use PK to spring from section to section with? Why in the world would you need to change direction on those?

I'm not ready yet to post any long-winded review, but i'd say after a couple weeks of playing this, I feel the same way about it I do the Shadow game: Decent, playable, and enjoyable despite horrid flaws and design choices. I won't deny how broke-ass it is in places, but I won't deny i'm having fun with it either. (Not insinuating others are, of course)

My first question to Sonic Team wouldn't be why they rushed it, why the physics are the way they are, explain the plotholes, ect ect though - it'd be, who the fuck is responsible for designing Solaris and its' boss battle.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:47 am

The ones you use PK to spring from section to section with? Why in the world would you need to change direction on those?

I recall having to jump onto them at some point (and if I didn't, then, well, forget that). Thing is, it's nearly impossible to gauge your jumps correctly, and if you do overshoot it, turning around sometimes makes you overshoot it again.

Anyway, the girders aren't as good an example as those lilypads in that jungle stage. For that matter, I seem to be stuck in there as Silver, since I reach a dead end, and despite paths being all over the place, the camera angles I'm given all seem to indicate all the paths heading to the same dead end. It's rather irritating.

Owen Axel · Post by **Owen Axel** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:42 am

Shadow Hog wrote:Anyway, the girders aren't as good an example as those lilypads in that jungle stage. For that matter, I seem to be stuck in there as Silver, since I reach a dead end, and despite paths being all over the place, the camera angles I'm given all seem to indicate all the paths heading to the same dead end. It's rather irritating.

I got stuck there for a while, too. You have to use an ivy to swing higher to reach the top platforms in order to make your way to the exit.

I'll take getting lost in a level any day over non-stop yapping from mission characters like in Shadow.

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:31 pm

I'll take neither!

Wooduck51 · Post by **Wooduck51** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:20 pm

FlashTHD wrote:My first question to Sonic Team wouldn't be why they rushed it, why the physics are the way they are, explain the plotholes, ect ect though - it'd be, who the fuck is responsible for designing Solaris and its' boss battle.

I thought that the interdimensional moose bird was rather enjoyable. I died only once because I was having so much fun with one of the characters that I forgot to check my ring count.

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:34 pm

So you can look at this "interdimensional moose bird":

http://www.jonnys-place.com/Personaldoc ... -slap1.jpg
http://www.jonnys-place.com/Personaldoc ... -slap2.jpg
http://www.jonnys-place.com/Personaldoc ... -slap3.jpg
http://www.jonnys-place.com/Personaldoc ... -slap4.jpg
http://www.jonnys-place.com/Personaldoc ... -slap5.jpg

And tell me with a straight face that this is a good excuse for a final boss after everything that preceeded it?

(To the staff: If the statute of limitations for spoilers in this game has expired, let me know and i'll embed the screenshots directly.)

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:53 pm

Are you trying to say that it looks dumber than every Sonic final boss so far, because I have this design monstrosity that is known as Metal Overlord, I have to show you...

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:13 pm

But, but...

Sonic 360 wrote:That body of light is a sign of a super-dimensional life form! Standard attacks won't work on him! He eats dimensions for lunch!

For lunch!