E3 Sonic Next-Gen trailer on XBOX Live Marketplace

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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FlashTHD
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Post by FlashTHD »

EGM ran a preview. It doesn't say much that we don't already know, though it does clear up a few things. Two choice quotes:
"We have many goals that we are striving to achieve with the first Sonic game for the next-gen consoles, but the main one is to return Sonic to his roots," says Shun Nakamura of development studio Sonic Team. "[We want] to utilize the latest technologies and production values to allow people to experience a similar impact of Sonic's first appearance 15 years ago. That's why we are titling the new game simply Sonic the Hedgehog - to 'reintroduce' the new Sonic."
...so they are serious about it. Well, sir, the next time the press interviews you about the game, do kindly explain to us why Shadow needs a damn jeep.
The game will also borrow a page from the more recent (and questionably recieved) Sonic Adventure titles, as you won't just assume the role of the world's most recognizable hedgehog. Other popular characters from the series will be playable, and while Nakamura won't confirm names, we'd bet on - at the very least - Sonic's longtime sidekick Tails and his tough-guy pal Knuckles showing their mugs here.
Obviously that's speculation on their part, but the way they word it is curious. The "Other popular characters from the series will be playable" bit is what I assume to be paraphrasing Nakamura, so...secret characters, perhaps?

Speaking of speculation, their rumors page turned up a possible hit on a NiGHTS sequel. The guy who writes that section made a snide remark about Sega needing to make one of those last issue, and now he's saying that they may be keeping one under wraps. No platform was specified, but they did claim that it's a long, long ways away: think sometime in '08. This guy is usually knows what he's talking about and has successfully predicted several bits of big news over the years, so there may be some credibility to it - if Naka hadn't run off to start his own party after this issue went to press.

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Post by Frieza2000 »

Zarathustra wrote:Any pics of Silver the Whitey with a psychic Piko-Piko hammer to get some proof?
Well, Amy is a fortune teller and Shadow is an energy manipulator. Telekinesis isn't such a far fetched result. It would also explain his inability to use the homing attack and spin dash.

Seriously though, it would be incredibly gay if any of this were even vaguely hinted at in the game. Sexuality is the last travesty this series hasn't committed (barring Rouge's nod toward it).

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Post by Zarathustra »

... 'twas a joke. But it's a fucking interesting, and mentally disturbing, theory, to say the least ^_^.
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SHIT, I'M STARTING TO BELIEVE THAT CAN BE TRUE. SHIIIT!!

Also, if Sonic is said Iblis (arab for "demon" or something) Trigger, ironically he would be the reason it all started for this Silver guy... like Gokuu's heart disease.

EDIT: This year's NiGHTS' 10th, no that it could help absolutely anything in making a sequel/ enhanced port of the Saturn title for next-gen consoles or anything, specially since Hirokazu Yasuhara's and Naoto Ohshima's departures from SONICTEAM. Also, sans some copyrights handling over Sega of America, the commercial name of NiGHTS is totally faded out, only die-hard fans remember it.

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Post by j-man »

You can find the full E3 demo here, if nobody's posted it already. Although I'm still downloading, I've heard tell that it reveals Silver to be from the future, which would explain why he would be after Sonic to stop him from "triggering" Iblis to turn up and start causing shit. Hackneyed, yes, but it may mean that he's not a villain after all.

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Post by Frieza2000 »

It confirms that he's from the future to stop Sonic. It says they meet early in the game and he 'thwarts' Sonic several times, then becomes playable halfway through. It also mentions using rings as money in towns to buy new moves and that rings increase Sonic's speed. Town stages will be used to buy powerups and progress the plot. It confirms the release date as Fall.

So it's Sonic RPG...I must say, I'm looking forward to this. I think my inner jaded fanboy committed suicide when he saw the trailer. I don’t see Sonic anymore, just...a game. And while it may turn out mediocre, I can be pretty easy to please when I'm not analyzing everything.

Silver's levels look the best; there's <i>actual</i> platforming. It sounds exactly like the Jazz Jackrabbit 3 demo, but with telekinesis instead of guns. If the path were just a bit less restricted and there were some brighter colors I'd be thrilled.

I don't think it's possible for this to be the revival of Sonic - at least not as I've known him. It <i>is</i> Series Over, but it already looks like more fun than Heroes or Shadow and if they come up with some better level themes and use a progression more like SA2 than Heroes it could still be a good experience.

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Post by Light Speed »

j-man wrote:You can find the full E3 demo here, if nobody's posted it already. Although I'm still downloading, I've heard tell that it reveals Silver to be from the future, which would explain why he would be after Sonic to stop him from "triggering" Iblis to turn up and start causing shit. Hackneyed, yes, but it may mean that he's not a villain after all.
I love how in the Sonic demo he falls to his death like 5 times. Have they llearned nothing?

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Post by Stardust Speedman »

Light Speed wrote:
j-man wrote:You can find the full E3 demo here, if nobody's posted it already. Although I'm still downloading, I've heard tell that it reveals Silver to be from the future, which would explain why he would be after Sonic to stop him from "triggering" Iblis to turn up and start causing shit. Hackneyed, yes, but it may mean that he's not a villain after all.
I love how in the Sonic demo he falls to his death like 5 times. Have they llearned nothing?
That was because he was a bad player. Besides, death is something absolutely normal when you play a Sonic game for the first time. You should not agonize so much over dying or loosing rings. Sooner or later you learn how to play a stage correctly and when you manage to get an S/A-rank, you will be filled with joy.

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And Kingdom Valley isn't even finished, so it is possible that till the release of the game some bugs of this level will be fixed.

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Post by Light Speed »

Well yeah, but there is a difference between skill and cheap deaths. When you are playing a game that is all about speed, it is kind of annoying when the slightest little movement sends you flying to your doom. Basically they have been recycling Speed Highway for six years when they should be recycling something like pretty much any of the other Sonic Adventure Sonic levels. I am glad that they have made a few different paths this time, even though they kind of did that in Heroes.

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Post by Locit »

It always seems to boil down to cheap pit deaths. Lately, though, it's been less of the occasional pit and more like a number of rails and such suspended high above one large pit. Something is wrong when the majority of the area of a level will kill you at the slightest mistake. An instance of good use of bottomless pits (for me) was the chase preceeding the final boss in Lava Reef Zone. It was fairly slow moving, but never so sluggish that there wasn't any pressure, and there was always a clear view of where you were supposed to jump next. And, oddly enough, I always got a lot more joy out of simply completing a level in the old, 2d games than I did in getting an S/A ranking in the new ones.

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Post by Stardust Speedman »

Light Speed wrote:Well yeah, but there is a difference between skill and cheap deaths. When you are playing a game that is all about speed, it is kind of annoying when the slightest little movement sends you flying to your doom.
Yes, this can be very anoying, but this depends very much on the player. Do you know http://www.soniccenter.org ? Have you ever watched their videos? If your a freak, there will come a time where you can run really fast, even in the harder stagest of the recent Sonic games, without making major mistakes. And that CAN be REALLY fun! But this is not the case for every person.
Non of the Sonic games since Sonic Adventure are really bad. They're just:
1. Different from the classical Sonic games and
2. Mostly designed for hardcore freaks.
Only because there are a lot of people who dislike/hate this kind of game concept, it doesn't mean that the recent Sonic games were bad. Have you ever noticed how much people are out there who really enjoyed/loved Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog? So, concidering this, it can't really be that these games were BAD. They were only different from YOUR expectations! Please try to understand this! (I don't mean specifically you, Light Speed, I mean all the people who hate the recent Sonic games.) You can say that you hate the recent Sonic games, you are not forced to like them. But you CAN'T say that these games were only crap and Sonic Team has killed our blue beloved hedgehog!

Don't get me rong! I never said that I prefere the new game concept over than the classical game concept. I always wanted to see a 3D Sonic game with REALLY classical gameplay, since there even hasn't been a SINGLE one. But I also love all the recent Sonic games (except the Advance games)! And why I can enjoy these games, but you can't? It's because I look to them from a different angle than you and I don't compare them with the old games, because the newer games are DIFFERENT games, and they are enjoyable in their own way, even with their flaws! Please try to cognize this!

Besides, did you REALLY want Sonic Team to make the same kind of game over and over again? Some 3D Sonic games with classical gameplay would be really nice, but don't you some time get TIRED of this? In my opinion, it is actually very good and necessary, that Sonic Team always tryed to make Sonic Games with almost completely other game features every time, while still keeping the main Sonic game concept in all of them. Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog weren't Sequels to the original Sonic games, concerning gameplay. But all of them have their own special features, which makes each of them unique, while still being kind of a Sonic game. Believe me, this is really necessery for the current generation.

However, I can only say this again, although all the Sonic games in the last 5 years were awesome in their own way, it's really sad that Sonic Tean still hast made 3D Sonic game with classical feelling (and please don't tell me Sonic Adventure was one, because it really wasn't). I can only hope that Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic Wild Fire will feel more classical, because long time fans like us need ALSO this kind of game!

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Post by Radrappy »

look alright, even if you do happen to be ok with the cheap deaths, being constantly flung off grind rails into nothingness and being speed boosted into walls that eventually drop you into death, there is no denying poor game quality as far as shadow the hedgehog, heroes, and sonic riders are concerned. Sonic is supposed to be sega's most important franchise. This being the case, why is horrid laziness apparent in all three of these recent games? The levels in Heroes sans a few were uninspired and generic (frog forest anyone?). While you may be fine with cheap deaths and unforgiving game glitches, you cannot deny that sonic team (or whoever, I don't care) has not been putting any heart into these games. Telling yourself that these games were made for a hardcore audience is inherently false seeing as they were all made to appeal to everyone. (team amy rose in sonic heroes is evidence enough for this). It is fine that you can stand the recent degradation of sonic games. However do not try to persuade us that they were good games. No amount of hardcoreness or skill can make up for poor level design and a lack of effort that has plagued this series for years.
Last edited by Radrappy on Sun May 14, 2006 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by SegaSonic »

There are some elements that they could still implement, but they dont.

Did anyone notice that the New video at gametrailers gets damaged when silver is in half the stage and it begings to show Sonic's gameplay over again?

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Post by Delphine »

I was annoyed that he didn't show us more of Silver's levels. I almost think it might actually be fun. Maybe.

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Post by Light Speed »

Yeah, I did notice that. He like paused the game and switched back to Sonic, but kept talking about the Silver level. If you want to see the whole level though, someone in this or maybe another thread posted a link to Sonic Cult that has them.

As for Stardust, Sonic games have never been designed for the most hardcore. Sonic has always been a game all about appealing to the 12 year olds. Just because people became really good at these games and managed to learn how to work around the flaws does not make them good games. Not to mention those people on that site you linked most likely had 30 million runs where their light speed dash or whatever sent them into oblivion and they just chose not to share those particular videos.

I can't really comment on Riders or Shadow since I never played them, but from what I've heard you don't really have a lot of choice over who you shoot with your gun. That seems to be an incredibly retarded design flaw when some of the missions require you to shoot only one faction. No matter how 'hardcore' you are, you still won't be able to use your gun if this is the case. Please try to recognize this!

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Post by DackAttac »

I'll just stick up for Riders and say it's the most fun I've had with a 3D Sonic since... halfway through SA2. Not saying much, I know, but I really am having a good time with it. Learning curve is excessive, but once you get past it, there's a pretty solid game in there.

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Post by SegaSonic »

Is it Like SSX Tricky?
Yeah, I did notice that. He like paused the game and switched back to Sonic, but kept talking about the Silver level. If you want to see the whole level though, someone in this or maybe another thread posted a link to Sonic Cult that has them.
While on the Silver gamplay part, The video goess back to the begining, he doesnt start playing as Sonic as you can clearly hear him playing as Silver and all the scenes of Sonic are those of the begining of the movie.

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Post by Zeta »

Non of the Sonic games since Sonic Adventure are really bad. They're just:
1. Different from the classical Sonic games and
2. Mostly designed for hardcore freaks.
If by hardcore freaks, you mean fanboys who will buy anything with Sonic's face plastered on, I agree.
Only because there are a lot of people who dislike/hate this kind of game concept, it doesn't mean that the recent Sonic games were bad.
Just because handful of "hardcore freaks" like running along a thread suspended over a bottomless pit doesn't mean it's good.
Have you ever noticed how much people are out there who really enjoyed/loved Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog? So, concidering this, it can't really be that these games were BAD. They were only different from YOUR expectations!
Again. That can mostly be attributed to brand loyalty. Most of the people who praise Heroes and Shadow are below the age of 12 and big fans of Sonic X. The kind of kids who will like anything as long as it has their absolute favoritest character on it.
Please try to understand this! (I don't mean specifically you, Light Speed, I mean all the people who hate the recent Sonic games.) You can say that you hate the recent Sonic games, you are not forced to like them.
If you're not forcing him to like them, why are you defending them? I mean, he has a right to voice his opinion, just as you.
But you CAN'T say that these games were only crap and Sonic Team has killed our blue beloved hedgehog!
Yes I can. Heroes and Shadow were crap.
Don't get me rong! I never said that I prefere the new game concept over than the classical game concept. I always wanted to see a 3D Sonic game with REALLY classical gameplay, since there even hasn't been a SINGLE one.
Shouldn't that be a sign, then? These aren't Sonic games because they're not based around the Sonic gameplay established early on. Therefore, they effectively HAVE killed Sonic. To make an analogy, let's say that instead of making Starfox Assualt, Nintendo decided to continue to make goofy, shitty, adventure games with the Starfox characters like Rare did. Now, the StarFox style would effectively be dead. The characters would live on, but without the fun gameplay that made their series interesting, there would be no reason for them, too, and thus no reason to celebrate. A similar thing could happen if say, Metroid Pinball was the only aspect of Metroid to ever be made again.

Similarly, the early Sonic gameplay of exploring expansive levels with branching paths and hidden surprises has died. And thus that aspect of Sonic has died, as well, to be replaced with "run from point A to point B across tiny strips of land suspended over bottomless pits that exist in areas that don't even make sense for them to be there such as deserts and cities". Therefore, Sonic is essentially dead.
But I also love all the recent Sonic games (except the Advance games)! And why I can enjoy these games, but you can't? It's because I look to them from a different angle than you and I don't compare them with the old games, because the newer games are DIFFERENT games, and they are enjoyable in their own way, even with their flaws! Please try to cognize this!
Even when judged against other 3-D platformers, such as Mario 64, Mario Sunshine, Jak and Daxter, the new games come up short. When you make an opinion about something, you have to compare it to other things. That's pretty much how people think in the world, ya know? We only know the sky is up because there's a down. Similarly, we know the recent games are shit, because there are games that are not.
Besides, did you REALLY want Sonic Team to make the same kind of game over and over again? Some 3D Sonic games with classical gameplay would be really nice, but don't you some time get TIRED of this?
You make a good point. In fact, I'm getting tired of having to run Sonic over magical tracks 1,000 miles in the air. Do you really want Sonic Team to make that over and over?
In my opinion, it is actually very good and necessary, that Sonic Team always tryed to make Sonic Games with almost completely other game features every time, while still keeping the main Sonic game concept in all of them.
Except they haven't. I already pointed out that having the same characters or setting is not the same as having the same game concept.
Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog weren't Sequels to the original Sonic games, concerning gameplay. But all of them have their own special features, which makes each of them unique, while still being kind of a Sonic game. Believe me, this is really necessery for the current generation.
Why? The constant complaint we hear from everybody is that Sonic Team is trying to fix what isn't broken. Sonic doesn't need guns or fishing minigames in the same way that Mario doesn't need a hose strapped to his back. A change in gameplay that has been equally reviled as Sonic. Outside of our little fan-community, and 12-year old boys, nobody cares about Sonic anymore. At least not with the same respect they care about Mario. He now carries as much clout as any other generic cartoon character. And that's a damn shame.

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Post by SegaSonic »

Yep, Sonic is used like a bag of crap now..the crap being by part 4KIDS.

America doesnt understand Anime or games, when they see Sonic they only see a Toon like Mickey or Bugs. thus they want to make his a thing for babies.

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Post by DackAttac »

Your post was right after his, and about a twelfth of the length. Why the hell did you feel the need to use the quote button there?

But I think Zeta's post pretty much sums up my feelings, the only exception being I have no problem with bottomless pits so long as they're not easy to accidentally fall into. But they have been for the last three titles.

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Post by SegaSonic »

Sorry about that, I just wanted to show that I agreed fully.

Yeah I know, next time I'll just agree.

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Post by Professor Machenstein »

Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog weren't Sequels to the original Sonic games, concerning gameplay. But all of them have their own special features, which makes each of them unique, while still being kind of a Sonic game. Believe me, this is really necessery for the current generation.
What is this about being "unique"? Sonic has been the same green-eyed, toothy, urban city resident Adventure 'hog for the past eight years now. The reason most of us liked Sonic Adventure and, to a lesser extent, Sonic Adventure 2 was because that was fresh and "unique" at the time. But that was eight years ago and evidently we have grown tired of it. It's always the same dribble. Navigate through linear speedways, watch out for bottomless pits, oh look, a new character, more undesired gameplay styles that take up the majority of the entire game, you unlocked the Last Story, oh no, the boss has turned into a big dragon thing, better turn into Super Sonic, Super Sonic beats the dragon thing, all the characters hug, the end. It has been the same for the past eight years. There is nothing unique about that.

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Post by SegaSonic »

I really want to know why theres always some kind of huge dragon thing at the end of the recent Sonic games.

And it seems theres yet another one for this game.

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Post by Zarathustra »

I partially agree with Stardust, in my opinion the new Sonic games are flawed when trying to feel like the original 16-bit ones, and there are so many circumstances to take note of that's almost sick:

1) The "true" SONICTEAM does not exist anymore, as GG! says, it's pretty obvious.

2) The people now in charge of the series make the games targeting new gamers ALL THE FUCKING TIME, hence you have Omochao telling you the jump button makes you jump in each game.

3) Since probably no new Sonic title has worked as well as expected (economically speaking), they change gameplay mechanics all the time to try and get the "perfect new-era Sonic formula"; it seems they got tired of this with this title, so they're returning to the Sonic Adventure formula and tweakig it a little bit to see (again) how it works.

4) Most nowadays platformers have set rules planned over the 3D world concept; Sonic's classical gameplay is fucking hard to get working properly on 3D cause it would need pretty GIGANTIC stages that would be hard to design and buffer on system's main memory to keep the player's pace, so they made up this absolute pit thing to get over it...

You see, it's a complex thing. I'm fucking sleepy now, can't think of any more problems right now. Maybe later. See you.

EDIT:
Frieza2000 wrote:Silver's levels look the best; there's <i>actual</i> platforming. It sounds exactly like the Jazz Jackrabbit 3 demo, but with telekinesis instead of guns. If the path were just a bit less restricted and there were some brighter colors I'd be thrilled.
They seem not to be flawed, albeit yes, very restrictive. The obscure colors are because of the level's layout, remember the Silver's bit in the trailer... man, I loved Jazz Jackrabbit, biggest and coolest american Sonic rip ever. JJR2 even had an anime style intro!
Talking about this, Sonic X isn't actual anime as I see it, it's only a big serialized ad, in the same way the DiC series and Captain N were.

Image
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Post by SegaSonic »

SA1 was the closest to a succesful 3D Sonic game, and this New game shows elements of SA1. I say go for the SA1 style! and make it bigger, better and badder!

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Post by Light Speed »

Do you realize that you have posted after every single post in the thread for the last 8 or so posts and you haven't said more than a line in any of them, even though some of them are huge posts? Are you just trying to bolster the fuck out of your post count or something?

Quality over quantity man.

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