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One Classy Bloke · Post by **One Classy Bloke** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:36 am

[title]the mainstream.[/title]

I don't actually get the emo consideration of Shadow. I mean, surely with all the crap that happened to him, he's fairly justified to be pissed off. If I had a childhood friend who was killed by the military, I would be pretty angry. Likewise if I lacked the memory of my past, with the convenient image of people getting murdered haunting me.

And the fact that Shadow did stuff about it rather than give up and cry should prove that he's more man than most emos out there.

Cuckooguy · Post by **Cuckooguy** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:11 am

I could probably write a similar paragraph on Squall Leonhart or Zero (MMX).

Shadow is the embodiment of many cliches associated with characters who experience tragic losses. Something I think the Sonic world could do without. Sonic Adventure 2 had a crappy story anyway, even if you subtracted Shadow's goth exterior.

The way Shadow has been presented to us so far leaves much to be desired.

jenkins · Post by **jenkins** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:32 am

Zero? I'm new to MMX...what's the deal with Zero?

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:06 am

I think Shadow could have been cool if he turned out to be the main bad guy Sonic had to fight in the very end of SA2(in super form of corse) instead of Biolizard. In addition he wouldn't be uber-wangst. Instead he would have been confused, psychotic, and fanatical--thinking that Gerald's dying words were absolute without having any conflicting visions of Maria at all. :D

Last, he wouldn't come back from the dead. He would have been remembered as a somewhat awesome villian.

But instead we got...meh.

Kishi · Post by **Kishi** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:56 am

jenkins wrote:Zero? I'm new to MMX...what's the deal with Zero?

http://whatamifightingfor.ytmnd.com

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:50 am

Wait, so what's the deal with all the Shadow clones at the end of Sonic Heroes? Is the Shadow you play as through Sonic Heroes the same one from SA2, and is that the same one you play as through Shadow the Hedgehog? I didn't play Shadow the Hedgehog so I don't know all the story.

James McGeachie · Post by **James McGeachie** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:08 pm

From what I've heard (not played the game), supposedly it is the same Shadow from SA2 in both Shadow and Heroes. Apparently if you wait long enough during the final battle, you get to hear Eggman saying that he lied about telling Shadow he was a clone and that he was in fact the real Shadow, who he rescued from space using one of his machines.

Neo Yi · Post by **Neo Yi** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:12 pm

Frankly, I don't care if he's pissed off and angst because of his crappy life. It's still the same type of angst shit I'm sick and tired of seeing, thus not making me change my mind on how much I think Shadow sucks. Pretty much anything after Sonic Adventure sucks, well, in terms of story and Shadow himself.
~Neo

jenkins · Post by **jenkins** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:17 pm

Time to say something I never thought I would say:

Thank you Kishi!

Wow. Poor Zero.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:34 pm

See, Zero can piss me off too. But there are two different depictions of Zero, one which I like - there's the emo-esque "I was created to kill my best friend woe angst Zero" and the "I like stabbing things with a lightsabre, sure hot chick I'll stab things for you" Zero that I actually enjoy as a counterpoint to Megman X's own constant "Why must I continue to fight when peace gets me off" jizzfest.

Kishi · Post by **Kishi** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:40 pm

Yes, any protagonist who complains about killing in a video game where killing things is the central gameplay mechanic is pretty inexcusable. See also: Fei Wong Fong.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:53 pm

In Megaman X it's worse, because it's arguable if the things you're "killing" (robots, androids, machines) are alive in the fucking first place.

"I just blew up a motorized wheel with saws running around it! I'm a MURDERER! A MURDEREEEEER!"

jenkins · Post by **jenkins** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:58 pm

I hate those things. The first time I played, they kept killing me in the freakin' intro stage. I was very eager to kill them afterwards.

Zaranth · Post by **Zaranth** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:37 pm

One Classy Bloke wrote:[title]the mainstream.[/title]

I don't actually get the emo consideration of Shadow. I mean, surely with all the crap that happened to him, he's fairly justified to be pissed off. If I had a childhood friend who was killed by the military, I would be pretty angry. Likewise if I lacked the memory of my past, with the convenient image of people getting murdered haunting me.

And the fact that Shadow did stuff about it rather than give up and cry should prove that he's more man than most emos out there.

I most definetly agree with you on this. I mean, he's an experiment. A test tube baby for Christ's sake; I think he's allowed to be a little less than cheerful.

I actually find Shadow to be an interesting character (when placed in the context of the Sonic universe). I mean, it's not like any other character has dark storylines. It is a kind of happy-go-lucky place, so Shadow's past adds something just a little bit different to it.

Though I'd be happier if he could say "Ultimate Lifeform" just a little bit less often.

Senbei · Post by **Senbei** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:27 pm

I think I've said before that Shadow has the potential to be a good character, but has been handled poorly and is a failure as a result. I believe the problem to be that a character with his personality needs to be a more round and detailed character, something that Sonic Team tried and failed to produce. It's as if he was brought to the point of being a round character, then turned back at the gates, existing in a purgatory between being an acceptable 2D, cartoony character and being something with more dimensions.

Brazillian Cara · Post by **Brazillian Cara** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:17 pm

Zeta wrote:See, Zero can piss me off too. But there are two different depictions of Zero, one which I like - there's the emo-esque "I was created to kill my best friend woe angst Zero" and the "I like stabbing things with a lightsabre, sure hot chick I'll stab things for you" Zero that I actually enjoy as a counterpoint to Megman X's own constant "Why must I continue to fight when peace gets me off" jizzfest.

Well, Zero doesn't actually knows (yet) that he was made to destroy X, and this one, aside from all his pacifist bitching, still do his job.
Heck, I sound like a fanboy.

j-man · Post by **j-man** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:19 pm

When will he get around to it, though? What is it, like Megaman X20Billion now?

Brazillian Cara · Post by **Brazillian Cara** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:32 pm

Dunno. By the way, Capcom is making another series in the series.

http://megaman.retrofaction.com/index.p ... om=&ucat=9&

Supposely, it happens between Megaman Zero and Megaman Legends. And there's some new stuff too. The concept looks somewhat better than an Axl series.

Kishi · Post by **Kishi** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:30 pm

The "X and Zero are fated to destroy each other" plot line gradually escalated until X5, when Inafune brought everything to a head and said, "That's it. We're done," to which the other big boys at Capcom said, "But...But money!" and went on without him, creating X6 and onward while dropping that entire thread in favor of random tripe.

Brazillian Cara · Post by **Brazillian Cara** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:57 am

Err... yes. But the games still have quality. Sure, X6 was poorly translated and was made specifically for pros, X7 could go without the 3d stages, and the two Xtremes were completely unnecessary. But other than that (and the goddamn vehicle levels in X8) the series are still good. But hey, that's just a fan's opinion.

jenkins · Post by **jenkins** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:20 pm

Last I checked...
Megaman 1-8
Megaman and Bass
Megaman X-X8
Megaman Zero-Zero5
Megaman Legends
A bunch of battle network games

Final Fantasy doesn't come close

Post by **Delphine** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:41 pm

Well...

Final Fantasy 1-13
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus
Final Fantasy VII: Before Crisis
Final Fantasy VII Snowboarding
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VII: Last Order
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon
Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon 2
Working Chocobo
And the two or three or four compilations, and a bunch of the older games are on the GBA and DS.

smiths32 · Post by **smiths32** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:46 pm

We're not really getting an FFVII snowboarding game, are we?

Post by **Delphine** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:48 pm

<a href="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7snow ... html">It's a cell phone game.</a>

Post by **Esrever** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:36 pm

Even FF can't compete with Megaman. 8 regular games, 11 X and eXtreme games, 12 EXE games, 5 Zero games, 3 Legends games, 2 Arcade games, 2 sports titles, and Rockman and Bass. That's 42 games, without even counting ports or compilations, or even the regular gameboy titles. That's 42 seperate, original titles!

Of course, I'm using the word "original" very loosely, as one must always do when discussing new iterations of the Megaman franchise.

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