Ebert says: Movies > Games

Senbei · Post by **Senbei** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:07 pm

Anyone here ever seen the American Splendor movie? No reason, it was just the last movie of note that I saw. I've never read the comic book series, but the movie was cool.

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:11 am

I guess no one played Legend of mana. Maybe is not Lord of the rings, but the stories that game has are better than many lame animes or manga I have seen/read. Sure, some of the things change by your gameplay, but is not very different to reading different versions of the same thing. For a game to archive the level of a great novel, all the available possibilities would have to be thought a lot and be well written, and that would take decades. When it comes to graphics, music and even cinemas, the games have reached the level of good movies. But when it comes to histories well written and thought, even the best games have only a story that could be used in a "standard" anime, manga, comic or Tv series.

CE · Post by CE » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:52 am

I don't see what the big hubbub is. Games do transfer emotions. What else is needed for games to be art?

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:20 am

Kicking someone in the knee transfers emotions.

Adam Adamant · Post by **Adam Adamant** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:41 am

I saw the American Splendour film. It was ok, though I found it hard to follow in places and so by the end (when he masturbates off the balcony) I was slightly lost and I left with a kind of unsettled feeling and not any kind of satisfaction from the story. It was definately interesting though.

And to GG: I love both Metropolis and Brazil. I felt Brazil is a bit more of a film, you can watch it and enjoy it. Metropolis takes some work. It's good, it makes you think, but it really suffers from the aged film quality and lack of sound. But Maria! It has some definite good points.

Senbei · Post by **Senbei** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:38 pm

Actually, I was surprised by how easily I was able to follow the story in American Splendour, especially since there are three versions of the same main characters -- the actors, the comic book characters, and the real people. I was also surprised by how much I enjoyed it, considering that it's about the life of a "loser."

CE · Post by CE » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:20 pm

chriscaffee wrote:Kicking someone in the knee transfers emotions.

Are you saying that it would be impossible for anyone, anywhere to consider getting kicked in the knee to be art? Assuming that the kicker intended for it to be art, what is the getting kicked in the knee missing?

I'm dead serious, by the way. I think art is subjective; what is art to you will not necesarrily be art to me. You can talk about what culture believes to be art (which is more a matter of marketing than intrinsic quality) but there is nothing that you can point to and everybody will agree is art.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:48 pm

Good Bye, Lenin!

End of topic.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:31 pm

If anything can be "art" then the word is useless.

Frieza2000 · Post by **Frieza2000** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:42 pm

It's art if you do it in an expressive way.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:59 pm

Hey Adam, which version of Metropolis did you see? The Kino International one?

The film's definitely aged, but you can see how much influence it's had on, like, everything since. I can imagine what a spectacle it must've been back in 1927. Alot of the acting I thought was a bit over the top, even by silent film standards, but Alfred Abel delivered an exemplary corporate badass. Joh Frederson is a role and a character I think could pass over just as smoothly today as it did 80 years ago. I also really dug the 1920's retro future look, which gives the entire movie a really distinctive, very beautiful ambience. And that robot chick is badass in an eerie sort of way.

It sucks that there's so much footage that's just been lost.

Hey, what did you think of Dark City? I actually really liked it, despite its flaws.

Post by **Delphine** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm

chriscaffee wrote:If anything can be "art" then the word is useless.

Your <i>face</i> is useless.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:00 pm

Then I guess it qualifies as art.

Post by **Delphine** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:11 pm

*snicker*

Ritz · Post by **Ritz** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:39 am

Abstract, I suppose?

Oh, I'm bad.

Adam Adamant · Post by **Adam Adamant** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:56 pm

@GG:
I'm not sure which version it was. I think it was some kind of recent dvd re-release as it had something about a new soundtrack at the beginning. I downloaded it so I can't check the box and I'm not sure where the actual file is now.

Definitely, the influence it's had is amazing. I thought the workers city was very cool, the clockwork style thing where everyone works to the music was brilliant. And when the machine breaks and the workers march into the furnace until it's happy. Something you wouldn't see in modern films.

I didn't realise there was lost footage. Are there any scenes in particular missing? It's always a shame with films like that, with such artistic vision, when pieces are lost, it kind of makes it seem incomplete.

And: 'Dark City'? If that was for me, I'm lost.

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:25 pm

Any time I hear that Ebert has an opinion about films or any other medium I just remember that he was the one who wrote the script for "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" which was the biggest piece of cinematic shit I have ever had the displeasure of seeing for five minutes. He might've directed it too.

As far as I'm concerned things are art if they have value in the context of their medium which can be appreciated by those usually outside said medium. Obviously there are holes in this definition, but it usually works for me.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:52 pm

I didn't realise there was lost footage. Are there any scenes in particular missing?

There's over 40 minutes of lost footage. When the film was originally released, it was a flop, so the company that distributed it chopped it up and re-edited it several times in an effort to make it more appealing to the masses. Then they cut it up again when they released it in the US. There are some very important missing scenes.

The best version of the film you can get right now is the one from Kino International, which was just released 2 or 3 years ago. It compiles all the known surviving footage and restores the scenes to their original order, plus it fills in the gaps of missing footage with text explaining what's happening based on the original scripts. It's also the first version of the movie since it was originally released that has the original score (newly re-recorded) thanks to the original sheet music that was apparently only recently discovered.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:15 pm

Roger Ebert posts some responses:

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbc ... Y/51206002
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbc ... Y/51208002

Another interesting read from arguments on both sides.

Senbei · Post by **Senbei** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:48 pm

I think people are overreacting to this. A celebrity critic happens to mention video games in passing and suddenly the net is in an uproar.

Unless this kind of discussion is going to provoke better games that explore and experiment in the media, I don't really see a point. I'd rather just go play Jet Set Radio, watch The Nightmare Before Christmas, and finish reading that Terry Pratchett book.

Double-S- · Post by **Double-S-** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:30 am

Who is this Terry Pratchett character.

Also, I don't care about Ebert because he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. How many games do you think he's even touched?

Ritz · Post by **Ritz** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:41 pm

Double-S- wrote:Who is this Terry Pratchett character.

Double-S fails

Post by **Delphine** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:15 pm

Double-S- wrote:Who is this Terry Pratchett character.

If you're not kidding I might cry. :(

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:53 pm

Apparently he writes books.

Senbei · Post by **Senbei** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:29 pm

Ironically.

Also.

And.

But?