When was the last you felt bad while playing a videogame?

Timestones · Post by **Timestones** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:23 pm

Neo Yi wrote:
Probably more along the lines of "Nomura couldn't come up with an original character design to save his ass."

Okay, I exagerate. A little.
Doesn't stop me from liking his art style. I'm aboslutely in love with the clothing designs he makes for the characters...except FFX and FFX-2 where 98% of the entire people of Spira wears craptaculuar, flamboyant clothings. Hell, even FFX's dinky airship is flamboyant with his wide range of pink and lavender.

I rather enjoy Nomura's art myself. On a technical level he's quite good, I don't think anyone can deny that. But you can be a good artist and still be unoriginal.

Opa-Opa · Post by **Opa-Opa** » Sat May 14, 2005 12:39 am

I just don't apreciate that, since FF7, every FF game has a character that looks like Tifa. Then again, I might be wrong.

Ancient · Post by **Ancient** » Sat May 14, 2005 2:35 am

I much prefer his artwork to Anamo's (spelling?)

Anamo's artwork is far too... 'fantasy'... Nomura actually gives his work a sense of realism, even if it is all the same.

Kishi · Post by **Kishi** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:24 am

Omni Hunter wrote:It wouldn't suprise me, Square just churn out the FF series now. There used to be an element of wishing that a game would come out like between FF6 and 7. Now it's a guarunteed certainty and as such has lost it's shine.

New FF games coming out has been a certainty since FFII.

As for the artwork, Nomura's grown on me over time, but I prefer Amano.

Timestones · Post by **Timestones** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:32 am

Opa-Opa wrote:I just don't apreciate that, since FF7, every FF game has a character that looks like Tifa. Then again, I might be wrong.

I doubt anyone would say you were out of line with that statement.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:51 am

Ancient wrote:I much prefer his artwork to Anamo's (spelling?)

Anamo's artwork is far too... 'fantasy'... Nomura actually gives his work a sense of realism, even if it is all the same.

Which is why I find that Amano's art fits more with the Final Fantasy franchise in general.

I never liked Nomura's art work in FF7--too generic anime for me to appreciate in a FF game. But I admit he has improved over the years even though his clothing design for various characters seem to have questionable quality. Also, I think his artwork seem to go better with more chidlike, non-"serious" games such as Kingdom Hearts.

Neo Yi · Post by **Neo Yi** » Sat May 14, 2005 2:29 pm

I rather enjoy Nomura's art myself. On a technical level he's quite good, I don't think anyone can deny that. But you can be a good artist and still be unoriginal.

Of course. I know I've punched out artworks that has characters looking the same. No one's perfect.

I never liked Nomura's art work in FF7--too generic anime for me to appreciate in a FF game. But I admit he has improved over the years even though his clothing design for various characters seem to have questionable quality. Also, I think his artwork seem to go better with more chidlike, non-"serious" games such as Kingdom Hearts.

I never cared much for FF7's artwork, too for the exact same reason you stated, but another is simply cuz' of the lack of interesting clothings. Unlike you, I favor his clothing designs. Of course, to each his or her own.

And for the record, I like Amano's artwork, too. There's something about the grace and elegance he puts in that I love, especially his drawing of Kuja, my fave Amano piece of the FF series he drew for.
~Neo

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Sat May 14, 2005 5:57 pm

Unlike you, I favor his clothing designs.

Well, I don't hate all of his clothing design. I mean I like the cast of FF8 clothes(contemporary and fashonable) and Yuna's(FFX verson) and Lulu's outfits. But then we get to the awfulness that are Tidus' wear and FFX-2 Rikku's thief outfit.

And Aeris' clunky-arse boots has always bugged me.

Ancient · Post by **Ancient** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:09 pm

Garnet wasn't designed by Nomura

And when I say fantasy, I mean the art style... I'm not big on art so I don't know any better way of describing it.

Final Fantasy isn't fantasy in the same way, it's fantasy in that it's not real. It's not another stereo-typical medieval/castle/elves and dwarfs type fantasy (which is what most people think of when they hear the word). And thus, realistic designs can work just as well (better, in my opinion)

Edit: And at least Tifa, Rinoa and Yuna have very few similarities when it comes down to character... Unlike Yuffie, Selphie and Rikku

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:29 pm

Ancient wrote: Edit: And at least Tifa, Rinoa and Yuna have very few similarities when it comes down to character... Unlike Yuffie, Selphie and Rikku

You are entitled to your opinions, however wrong they may be.

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:48 pm

Everyone's entitled to my opinion. Or so a shirt once told me.

Ancient · Post by **Ancient** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:52 pm

Well considering the amount of times I've played the games, I'd say I'm more entitled to them than most

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:34 pm

Have you won countless debates at gameFAQs over which Final Fantasy was the most tremendous? Do you know every summon's MP cost by heart? Do you take your Final Fantasy seriously?

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:34 pm

Eh. You can argue that many of the characters in FF games are derived from FFIV which could explain why everything seems familar with them. Woman-crazy Edgar, Irvine, Zidane meet Edge. Angst-ridden Cloud, Squall meet Cecil.

Although, I could be wrong as I haven't played FFII yet, which is supposed to be the first FF game with defined characters.

Double-S- · Post by **Double-S-** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:57 pm

I'M BETTER THAN YOU

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:37 pm

Off the top of my head, I could tell you that Bahamut ZERO costs 180, and Ifrit costs 28.

-wyvern · Post by **-wyvern** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:57 am

Knights of the round will set you back a whopping 250 MP each time, plus around 300 hours of your life that you won't get back.

Sorry, old joke.

Kishi · Post by **Kishi** » Sun May 15, 2005 7:53 am

FFII had distinctive characters to the extent that they had names. Their personalities were generally afterthoughts.

Frioniel is the hero. Yes, that's it. Technically, Maria, Guy, Lionheart, and him are all childhood friends from the same town, but besides that, he's got nothing.

Maria is the woman. She cares about her brother, Lionheart.

Guy is a big tough guy who has a speech impediment and can talk to animals, although he does it about once in the entire game.

Lionheart is MIA for most of the game, although the Emperor's second-in-command <strike>Darth Vader</strike> Dark Knight is obviously him with a helmet on. After the Emperor dies, he decides he wants to take his place and rule the world. Then the Emperor returns from Hell, and Lionheart decides what he actually wants to do is fight the Emperor and return peace and freedom to the land. Uh.

That's just the core cast, though. Once I got past them I realized the rest of the playable characters aren't so bad in comparison.

Josef is Final Fantasy's first jolly old man. He fights with his fists by default, and due to FFII's completely uneven combat system, that means he'll be hitting for 2000 damage while your weapon-wielding characters do about 300, making him seem even more badass. He's also the first character in the series to tragically sacrifice himself for the good of the world, and since he's a likable character and useful in battle, it actually has impact--moreso when you return to his hometown and have to break the news to his little girl.

Ming-Wu is a White Wizard with a rad turban and a canoe. He's also the benevolent Princess Hilda's second-in-command and eventually exhausts himself and dies removing the seal on Ultima, the bane to the Emperor's existence.

Gordon is a prince of Kashuon and the brother of Prince Scott, who used to go with Princess Hilda. After Scott dies near the beginning of the game, Gordon moves right in and starts macking on his dead brother's girlfriend. I guess he has some semblance of character development in that he laments his cowardice early on but, after rising to a position of responsibility, owns up to it and takes care of business. He's comparable to Gilbert in FFIV except Gilbert never actually stopped being a wussy minstrel.

Layla is the leader of a band of pirates who initially try to rob the heroes and toss them overboard but after losing a single fight grovel and offer the heroes their ship. She's also the first sassy female party member in the series, but in this game that amounts to sometimes ending her sentences with exclamation points.

Richard is another series first--the original Dragon Knight. While the rest of the Dragon Knights were getting slaughtered by the Empire, he went searching for Ultima and ended up getting swallowed by Leviathan. He makes his escape with the help of the heroes and helps kill the Emperor, and a while later, when the Emperor comes back from the dead all demonic and such, he takes him on personally, sealing his own fate in order to buy the heroes time for a tactical retreat.

Sorry, I do that sometimes.

Neo Yi · Post by **Neo Yi** » Sun May 15, 2005 8:08 am

Well, I don't hate all of his clothing design. I mean I like the cast of FF8 clothes(contemporary and fashonable) and Yuna's(FFX verson) and Lulu's outfits. But then we get to the awfulness that are Tidus' wear and FFX-2 Rikku's thief outfit.

And Aeris' clunky-arse boots has always bugged me.

Trust me, I agree with you there. If there is a downside to Nomura's outfit, I always thought 98% of the outfits in FFX and FFX-2 were godawful. FF7's weren't awful, but too simple and anime for my taste.
~Neo

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Sun May 15, 2005 10:05 am

Kishi wrote: He's comparable to Gilbert in FFIV except Gilbert never actually stopped being a wussy minstrel.

Damn spoony bard.

Post by **Delphine** » Sun May 15, 2005 4:48 pm

Ancient wrote:Well considering the amount of times I've played the games, I'd say I'm more entitled to them than most

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tsuyoshi-kun · Post by **Tsuyoshi-kun** » Mon May 16, 2005 8:34 am

Ancient, have you even noticed how ugly and blocky the character designs in that new Musashi game for PS2 look? I can't even remember the last RPG I played with less attractive character designs. And the new characters in Kingdom Hearts 2 look like the cast from the first one, except with uglier hair, different colors, and slightly different clothes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm glad Nomura isn't working on FFXII. Maybe it will be good without him.

Ancient · Post by **Ancient** » Tue May 17, 2005 5:07 pm

From what I understand, the new characters in KH2 are meant to look similiar

Probably some stupid plot twist we'll all see coming anyway (and an excuse for Nomura to be unoriginal)

I'm also glad Nomura isn't working on FFXII... he's better suited to series (like KH) where he doesn't have to make new protagonists (or many new characters at all)...

Since his designs are good (imo), just awfully similiar

Edit: e's should not be next to w's

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Tue May 17, 2005 6:11 pm

Hehe, "awefully".