The Most Beautiful Sight these Eyes have Seen

[Baba O'Reily]

It also requires you to, you know, play the games.

[Double-S-]

It also requires you to, you know, play the games.

Yes, which is why I'm saying I'm not trying to compare Halo 2 and Half-Life 2.

I'm just explaining the concept of an objective opinion since chriscaffee can't seem to grasp it.

Chris, your idea of an "objective conversation" is nothing more than a technical feature list, which does nothing more than state the features of a game, which does absolutely nothing for actually judging a game. Were you ever swayed to purchase a game by the back of the box which says "90+ LEVELS! 80+ WEAPONS! 10000+ BAD GUYS! 100+ MINIGAMES! TONS OF GAMEPLAY FEATURES! MORE STUFF THAN ANY OTHER GAME!" Yeah, I don't think so... that's not objective, that's technical. There's a difference, you know.

[chriscaffee]

I will break it down for you:

Objective: Half-Life 2 has more open levels.

Subjective: Half-Life 2 is better.

Potential Objective Opinion: Half-Life 2 is better because it has more open levels.

This statement can be broken down into three ideas.

Subjective: Half-Life 2 is better.

Objective: Half-Life 2 has more open levels.

Subjective: Open levels are better then less open levels.

Note that the judgment "Half-Life 2 is better" is based on a fact and an opinion about that fact. Without the opinion that open levels are in fact better then less open levels, you cannot make a judgment that Half-Life 2 is a better game.

An opinion with basis is not an objective opinion. It's an informed opinion. Until you can give me an example of an "objective opinion," I see no point in continuing this debate.

[Ash Holt]

I'm going to shit if I see one more fight on the internet about Halo 2 or Half-Life 2 or Halo 2 vs. Half-Life 2.

[Double-S-]

This statement can be broken down into three ideas.

Subjective: Half-Life 2 is better.

Objective: Half-Life 2 has more open levels.

Subjective: Open levels are better then less open levels.

Note that the judgment "Half-Life 2 is better" is based on a fact and an opinion about that fact. Without the opinion that open levels are in fact better then less open levels, you cannot make a judgment that Half-Life 2 is a better game.

Are you a freaking retard? What did I just say about that. That's a technical statement, NOT objective, which has absolutely nothing to do with what's better.

Yes, because Half-Life 2 has more open levels, perhaps that does mean that it's technically superior to Halo 2. Does that mean that an objective player is going to like Half-Life 2 more based purely on that fact? No. Does it even mean that they're going to like Half-Life 2's LEVELs more than Halo 2's? No.

An opinion with basis is not an objective opinion. It's an informed opinion. Until you can give me an example of an "objective opinion," I see no point in continuing this debate.

No, an opinion with bias is not an objective opinion. If I play Half-Life 2 and Halo 2 without any kind of bias towards either game, then whatever opinion I form on the two games is objective. Maybe I've never played or heard of Half-Life 2 and Barbie's Magical Fun Land, and decide I want to compare the two. That means I'm objective. Now, maybe I find Barbie's magical colors and gameplay to be better than Half-Life's. My opinion is still objective, no matter how crazy you may think it is. But if I were making a technical judgement, there's no real way I could argue that Barbie has better graphics, level design, or the like.

Let me reiterate this for like the 3rd time this topic:
Technical judgement is forming judgements on a game based purely on fact, like which game gets more polygons on the screen, or has higher resolution, or has more open levels, or whatever. This has little effect on whether or not I may like the game, especially if I were biased towards or against it.

An Objective judgement/opinion is NOT forming judgements on fact that can apply to everybody. It's forming judgements on your own opinion/tastes, ONLY if that opinion has no bias towards either side. Because I don't care about either Halo 2 or Half-Life 2, I can form an objective opinion. Just because it's objective does NOT mean that everyone HAS agree with it and it's 100% perfect truth, because it's still an opinon, and everybody has their own personal tastes, even without biases.

You are arguing something completely off-base. You don't win.

[Segaholic2]

For crap's sake, why are you still arguing about this. I won already.