All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

[Radrappy]

I still hate this project and everything it stands for.

You mean making money? Like pretty much any console game?

Why do you insist on defending this title? If this had been released after maybe one or two bad games, I could understand your position. However this game is arriving in the wake of TEN FUCKING YEARS of terrible decisions and disappointment. Is it merely the principal of ragging on something before having even tried it that's bothering you?

[Shadow Hog]

...this game is arriving in the wake of TEN FUCKING YEARS of terrible decisions and disappointment.

Strictly speaking, more like six - the problem was present earlier, depending on one's point of view (after all, Sonic Adventure DX was of questionable quality), but I'd say it really started around the release of Sonic Heroes in 2004, was cemented with Shadow in 2005, and immortalized with Sonic 2K6. Unleashed was a step up from that particular triennium, but certainly a far cry from the quality of the games before it. Still, a step up is a step up, and assuming the pattern of quality can be followed to a tee (which it probably can't, but play along here), Sonic 4 will similarly be a more competent title than its predecessor. How much more competent is the question.

Is it merely the principal of ragging on something before having even tried it that's bothering you?

Not particularly. I've never even heard of that school. Who is the principal there?

...the principle of it, though, is a tad bothering, but not particularly unwarranted, as per your reasoning. Although, yes, I am not Locit, so I can't answer for him - just myself.

[Locit]

Why do you insist on defending this title? If this had been released after maybe one or two bad games, I could understand your position. However this game is arriving in the wake of TEN FUCKING YEARS of terrible decisions and disappointment. Is it merely the principal of ragging on something before having even tried it that's bothering you?

It's really the previous six years of mostly mediocre games that prompted me to take my current position. When footage of Unleashed's Sonic sections first hit I was at least as critical of what I saw then as you're being now. But I ended up loving all the 360/PS3 Sonic levels (except Eggmanland, of course) and actually enjoying the Werehog segments more than I expected, which is to say they were bearable - though I certainly felt shafted on the 1:3 split of gameplay styles.

I think Act 1 of Spagonia shows just how fun a 3D Sonic game can be when enough care and polish are put into every aspect of a stage. For me it even tops Emerald Coast as the best example of how to handle Sonic in a non-Genesis setting. (Esrever characterized Unleashed as basically a very polished entry in the Adventure series, and I think that's a pretty great assessment.) Given the good job I think Sonic Team did on those levels I was pretty interested to see how they would approach Sonic 4 until I found out Dimps was doing all the heavy lifting. I know Dimps mostly from Sonic Rush/Adventure, and enjoyed those games well enough.

But none of that means I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Like Unleashed, I simply don't know how Sonic 4 plays yet. We don't have any verifiable impressions of the gameplay. Based on our general lack of knowledge I do think it's going too far to decry the game as yet another failed franchise resurrection, just as it was a bad idea to continue to buy Sonic games after the general clusterfuck that was Heroes on the theory that the previous entry (entries) was (were) a fluke and "they might get it right this time!" only to get punched in the gut for paying $50. It's possible to be interested in Sonic 4 without being emotionally invested, and that carries with it the bonus of not getting upset when Dimps decides to make the tiles in their rendition of a traditionally themed first level beveled instead of simply colored.

Liking Sonic doesn't mean pinning my hopes on the latest game in the franchise anymore –I just think he's just a cool character! I mean, until they throw the Werehog thing in for no good reason, the intro to Sonic Unleashed pretty much sums up the sort of character they've made Sonic into since the 16-bit days, and it still has a lot of appeal. Of course I want to see a really fun Sonic game, but if Sonic 4 turns out to be sub-par it's not like I'll take that as some sort of personal affront. I don't have to buy it! And neither does anyone else.

[Neo]

words

This is all very nice, but you seem to have made the odd assumption that "people point out a flaw in the game's graphics" equals "people condemn the game as horrible and a new low for the Sonic franchise". Again, I ask you, why did you make this assumption?

[Ritz]

I still hate this project and everything it stands for.

You mean making money? Like pretty much any console game?

Fucking obviously. What are you, some sort of Capitalist?

[Locit]

Fucking obviously. What are you, some sort of Capitalist?

Wow! It's not that controversial to say that games don't get produced unless they'll make money. Keiji Inafune said exactly that concerning Mega Man 9, one of the best examples of a series returning to its roots. Essentially he said: we can do this model because it's profitable thanks to digital distribution. Could I ask you to approach my comments seriously? It was a genuine question: what does the project stand for that isn't something you've projected on it?

Again, I ask you, why did you make this assumption?

Whups, sorry I missed your question. I didn't assume, though. Here's one example of someone assuming the game will be bad because the tiles are weird:

Because shitty tiling is the first spark of incompetence. It is sloppy and it looks (this is Sege we're talking about) rushed. Why can’t we be cynical? Tell me? ‘Cause we have had a decade of “This time we have it right, guies”, only to have a video game half baked, half assed, and complete with the umbilical chord still attached.

[Ritz]

Fucking obviously. What are you, some sort of Capitalist?

Wow! It's not that controversial to say that games don't get produced unless they'll make money. Keiji Inafune said exactly that concerning Mega Man 9, one of the best examples of a series returning to its roots. Essentially he said: we can do this model because it's profitable thanks to digital distribution. Could I ask you to approach my comments seriously?

Declined. That didn't exactly come off as a "genuine question" so much as a facetious quip, to which I gave a comparative response!



Okay, I'll indulge: One thing the project stands for that certainly wasn't a personal fabrication is that this was meant to be a return to classic form, both functionally and aesthetically. I obviously can't account for the former, but we've pretty much seen everything there is to see of Splash Hill, and I'm not at all impressed. I won't fault the visuals for being pre-rendered 3D schlock (because honestly, who was fool enough to expect anything more from Sega?), but there's simply no excuse for them rendering the entire foreground with the same stock plastic shader. That aside, all I'm seeing are the same Green Hill tropes they've fallen back on so many times before with a contrivedly repetitive background and absolutely no indication that the artists have the slightest clue as to what made the original games so visually appealing in the first place.

I'll start projecting just a tad here, but since everything they've shown so far indicates beyond any reasonable doubt that the game is going to be a complete regurgitation of Sonic 1/2 the whole way through, I really don't have any interest vested in this project. I was expecting Sonic 4, but what we're getting here is Sonic 2 HD Remix; with that came the realization that this game wasn't made to appease the grumpy old codgers like me who waste their free time posting on Sonic forums, but for the bourgeoisie public who've only had a cursory stint with the series in their youth, the sort who only recognize this as being a "classic" title because the background has fucking checkers and palm trees in it.

I'm not ranting about anything we don't already know, but the simple fact of the matter is that Sonic 4 exists not because classic Sonic is a veritable well of creative potential waiting to be re-tapped, but because there's an enormous demographic to fill, one that can apparently be appeased with the bare minimum of effort and a rock bottom budget. That's Sonic Team's problem right there- they only ever think in terms of demographics. It's all supply and demand, an assembly line with nothing going for it outside of a character that's just too goddamn appealing for his own good. And yes, this kind of makes me angry! My only hope is that they actually make an attempt at something fresh with the classic art direction once the second episode rolls around. All I really want is to run through something pretty and enchanting.


Now there. Do you see what you've done? You punched me in the gut while my bowels were full, and now I've gone and hosed this thread down with a rancid mess. This is so embarrassing. I'm leaving.

[Malchik]

Just like falling through floors in Heroes or running through walls in 06. Sega releases a game as fast as they make a press release. If they can't get simple art done properly, who's to say the game will be any less buggy and broken. I stick to my words, buddy. If a decade of horseshit has been piled on the consumer before, who’s to say Sega will not return the same. After all, it's apparent they don't care and they simply ride the name. After all they have the nostalgic title to pass off on parents who have fond memories of this cute little character. They threw this title on a third party company (Not doubting their talent) with a nominal amount of time, stretched it through episodes, and are releasing it through digital distribution. This is a novelty to them. And by dammit they will milk their dicks in every one of our mouths.

I sound awfully jaded, but I’ve been following this hedgehog just as long as you, I’m not stupid enough to look past the teeth marks on my pecker for the umpth time. I’ve sat through the “Back to basics” shit-fist that was Heroes and the “Reboot that will return Sonic back to his roots” that was 06.

So I'm just going to sit back on my chair and watch all of you happy Sonic fans claim that "graphics don't depict game play" and "They still have a couple days to fix this" or "This is just the first installment, they'll do better next time". Sonic's classic titles had both great hand drawn art and fun game play. If they don't even have the time (or concern) to fix pre-rendered graphics who's to say everything else will be great.

[DemoWeasel]

Declined. That didn't exactly come off as a "genuine question" so much as a facetious quip, to which I gave a comparative response!



Okay, I'll indulge: One thing the project stands for that certainly wasn't a personal fabrication is that this was meant to be a return to classic form, both functionally and aesthetically. I obviously can't account for the former, but we've pretty much seen everything there is to see of Splash Hill, and I'm not at all impressed. I won't fault the visuals for being pre-rendered 3D schlock (because honestly, who was fool enough to expect anything more from Sega?), but there's simply no excuse for them rendering the entire foreground with the same stock plastic shader. That aside, all I'm seeing are the same Green Hill tropes they've fallen back on so many times before with a contrivedly repetitive background and absolutely no indication that the artists have the slightest clue as to what made the original games so visually appealing in the first place.

I'll start projecting just a tad here, but since everything they've shown so far indicates beyond any reasonable doubt that the game is going to be a complete regurgitation of Sonic 1/2 the whole way through, I really don't have any interest vested in this project. I was expecting Sonic 4, but what we're getting here is Sonic 2 HD Remix; with that came the realization that this game wasn't made to appease the grumpy old codgers like me who waste their free time posting on Sonic forums, but for the bourgeoisie public who've only had a cursory stint with the series in their youth, the sort who only recognize this as being a "classic" title because the background has fucking checkers and palm trees in it.

I'm not ranting about anything we don't already know, but the simple fact of the matter is that Sonic 4 exists not because classic Sonic is a veritable well of creative potential waiting to be re-tapped, but because there's an enormous demographic to fill, one that can apparently be appeased with the bare minimum of effort and a rock bottom budget. That's Sonic Team's problem right there- they only ever think in terms of demographics. It's all supply and demand, an assembly line with nothing going for it outside of a character that's just too goddamn appealing for his own good. And yes, this kind of makes me angry! My only hope is that they actually make an attempt at something fresh with the classic art direction once the second episode rolls around. All I really want is to run through something pretty and enchanting.

Just like falling through floors in Heroes or running through walls in 06. Sega releases a game as fast as they make a press release. If they can't get simple art done properly, who's to say the game will be any less buggy and broken. I stick to my words, buddy. If a decade of horseshit has been piled on the consumer before, who’s to say Sega will not return the same. After all, it's apparent they don't care and they simply ride the name. After all they have the nostalgic title to pass off on parents who have fond memories of this cute little character. They threw this title on a third party company (Not doubting their talent) with a nominal amount of time, stretched it through episodes, and are releasing it through digital distribution. This is a novelty to them. And by dammit they will milk their dicks in every one of our mouths.

I sound awfully jaded, but I’ve been following this hedgehog just as long as you, I’m not stupid enough to look past the teeth marks on my pecker for the umpth time. I’ve sat through the “Back to basics” shit-fist that was Heroes and the “Reboot that will return Sonic back to his roots” that was 06.

So I'm just going to sit back on my chair and watch all of you happy Sonic fans claim that "graphics don't depict game play" and "They still have a couple days to fix this" or "This is just the first installment, they'll do better next time". Sonic's classic titles had both great hand drawn art and fun game play. If they don't even have the time (or concern) to fix pre-rendered graphics who's to say everything else will be great.

So, you're both going to buy it, then?

Now there. Do you see what you've done? You punched me in the gut while my bowels were full, and now I've gone and hosed this thread down with a rancid mess. This is so embarrassing. I'm leaving.

[Malchik]

So, you're both going to buy it, then?

Sure. If it's a good game I'll pay money to play. I just have absolutely no reason to believe thing game will be the insane success that the last several years proved otherwise.

I don't mind waiting a few month for fans to take of they're rose tinted glasses and confess to the games all mighty shittiness. Why should I risk waste money when some of you can prove me otherwise.

[Ritz]

That is exactly how a first post should be done.

[Locit]

I like him. He's got moxy!

[DemoWeasel]

Moxy and spunk!

[Neo]

I like you can we be friends

[Isuka]

I don't quite make out the relation between careless tiling and shitty game design (as in, stage layouts, object placing, control and collision detection fine-tuning, et cetera). That being said, I mostly share Ritz's opinion.

And there is some sort of relief effect in Green Hill, it's just checker-independent.



Also hi, DemoWeasel.

[Opa-Opa]

Whoa, that game looks awesome!!! Which one is that? It doesn't look like any level of Sonic Unleashed I remember...

[Kogen]

Wow, what a shitty game that sucks ass. The star power-up is not even on that electric hedgehog pokemon, it is BEHIND HIM - how dumb!!!

[Zeta]

Wow, what a shitty game that sucks ass. The star power-up is not even on that electric hedgehog pokemon, it is BEHIND HIM - how dumb!!!

I KNOW! You can obviously tell that they didn't care about the game and thus it is garbage!

[j-man]

guys seriously how can you defend this piece of shit HOW CAN YOUUU

[Neo]

Wow, what a shitty game that sucks ass. The star power-up is not even on that electric hedgehog pokemon, it is BEHIND HIM - how dumb!!!

It actually does look dumb in a screenshot, and while it looks a lot better in motion the effect in Sonic 2 works much better.

Not that I'm a whiny bitch or anything.

[Esrever]

That's nothing! Look at THIS lazy BS!



Sonic's head is so far forwards, it's not even attached to his body anymore!

[gr4yJ4Y]

They should had made the interface transparent for times like this, when score points are displayed. How are we supposed to know how many points it is to get that bird? Guess? Yuck.

[FlashTHD]

SEGA presents the long-awaited sequel to the all-time hit "Takashi Iizuka doesn't answer five questions about NiGHTS":

Takashi Iizuka invents 5,000 ways to answer fan mail with only buzzwords! Thrill to these scintillating snippets:

The aim for Sonic 4 is to provide a ‘new classic series’ using modern techniques that have only been around for the past few years for fans from all around the world who love the ‘classical’ series.

Tails won’t appear in Episode I. I’ll leave it to your imagination whether he’ll appear for further episodes!

What made you decide to include the Homing Attack, and does it have any impact on the classic- gameplay? – MK Skillz

TI: As you know, Homing Attack was an action featured from ‘Sonic Adventure’ and it didn’t appear in the classic series. In Sonic 4 the Homing Attack is added, and this provides sense of speed that none of the classic series have.

head.

hit.

wall.

About the only thing he does confirm is that yes, obviously, somebody important took notice that NSMB was raking in cash by the boatloads, then went downstairs to the R&D offices and cracked the whip (oh sorry, "encouraged").

[Malchik]

Yes, OH GOD, Yes!

[Segaholic2]

Jesus Christ.