All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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Locit
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Locit »

Yami CJMErl wrote:Sounds to me like Dimps can't get their textures/graphic tiles to apply properly...
I know we're a Sonic forum and all but this shit is getting really, really pedantic. Please stop getting defensive about tiles. There's no ideal Sonic game that this could be but won't because they got the tiles wrong. There's no ideal Sonic game, period. Take a step back, a deep breath, and realize that we are going to, somehow, make it through the torrent of woe that is Tilegate.

Jesus Christ.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by FlashTHD »

Locit wrote:
Yami CJMErl wrote:Sounds to me like Dimps can't get their textures/graphic tiles to apply properly...
I know we're a Sonic forum and all but this shit is getting really, really pedantic. Please stop getting defensive about tiles. There's no ideal Sonic game that this could be but won't because they got the tiles wrong. There's no ideal Sonic game, period. Take a step back, a deep breath, and realize that we are going to, somehow, make it through the torrent of woe that is Tilegate.

Jesus Christ.
Ok one, get yourself away from the icy high-strung deathgrip of Sonic Retro (preferably indefinitely) and chill out.

Two, game's still ass ugly.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

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FlashTHD wrote:Ok one, get yourself away from the icy high-strung deathgrip of Sonic Retro (preferably indefinitely) and relax.
I've never been to the Sonic Retro forums. I'm making fun of the idea of getting hung up over tile coloration as if that's the tipping point that will make the game terrible. I'm not sure how this is a controversial stance to take.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Neo »

Locit wrote:I'm making fun of the idea of getting hung up over tile coloration as if that's the tipping point that will make the game terrible.
Who said that, though?

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Malchik »

Locit wrote:
FlashTHD wrote:Ok one, get yourself away from the icy high-strung deathgrip of Sonic Retro (preferably indefinitely) and relax.
I've never been to the Sonic Retro forums. I'm making fun of the idea of getting hung up over tile coloration as if that's the tipping point that will make the game terrible. I'm not sure how this is a controversial stance to take.
Because shitty tiling is the first spark of incompetence. It is sloppy and it looks (this is Sege we're talking about) rushed. Why can’t we be cynical? Tell me? ‘Cause we have had a decade of “This time we have it right, guies”, only to have a video game half baked, half assed, and complete with the umbilical chord still attached.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by FlashTHD »

Locit wrote:
FlashTHD wrote:Ok one, get yourself away from the icy high-strung deathgrip of Sonic Retro (preferably indefinitely) and relax.
I've never been to the Sonic Retro forums. I'm making fun of the idea of getting hung up over tile coloration as if that's the tipping point that will make the game terrible. I'm not sure how this is a controversial stance to take.
Ug, confused you for Ritz. Oops.

"Getting hung up on" is a bit strong. I would think there's a decent-sized shitlist of problems that beat the tile coloration to the head of the line.

...and then I read Malchik's thing that went up as I was typing...valid point though.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Locit »

Malchik wrote:Because shitty tiling is the first spark of incompetence. It is sloppy and it looks (this is Sege we're talking about) rushed. Why can’t we be cynical? Tell me? ‘Cause we have had a decade of “This time we have it right, guies”, only to have a video game half baked, half assed, and complete with the umbilical chord still attached.
You can declare yourself to be cynical about this game, but that means admitting you're predisposed to expect the worst from the game without regard for evidence. I am taking a skeptical approach. This means taking context and all available evidence into account and not drawing any conclusions in absence of concrete factual information. So, as a cynic who sees these tiles your reaction is to interpret them as further evidence (on top of everything you already don't like about the game's visuals) that Sonic 4 - the game that none of us have actually played or seen footage of outside of a darkened Blair Witch-style grainy-as-hell video - is a doomed effort and cannot measure up to your standards for a Sonic game. I see the tiles and think "well that's weird" and that's where it stops.

They don't imply anything about, say, how the game controls or if it "feels" right (whatever that might mean). They don't somehow indicate that all the levels we haven't seen screens of will be terrible or rehashes of old zones or anything else. We do know, based on leaked evidence and the Nintendo Power pages, that Splash Hill does take a couple interesting twists: as you progress through the acts the day gets closer to twilight, and when you hit Eggman enough times he goes nuts and mixes up his attack patterns. Do we know if it will be fun to actually play the game, to do those things? No.

In the same way I don''t know the game will be good simply because DiMPS is developing it - even though I liked Sonic Rush Adventure quite a lot - you don't actually know the game will be worse because their use of tiling patterns doesn't match up. If you're admitting that you're a cynic about this game you also have to give up any illusions that you have any direct evidence, any actual proof, that it's not fun. As a skeptic I can simply sit back and wait for more evidence and maybe a demo. I can avoid frothing needlessly at the mouth over tiny quibbles of no real substance.

Apparently I can't avoid posting about the complaints about those tiny quibbles, though!

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Protodude »

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I seriously had trouble understanding at first what Neo was talking about in the picture that said "RIGHT NONE LEFT BOTH". I mean, I realized they looked a tad different, but I didn't realize he was referring to the shadows at first. Just......how long did you stare at that picture to even realize that?

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by j-man »

Wow. Just like to step in at this point and assure you that I really don't care all that much about whatever it is you're on about. It's just fun being contrary for the sake of it :)

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Ngangbius »

I don't know about all that tile crap that was spouted a page ago, but I do know that this running animation here:

Image

...looks half-assed.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by CM August »

That looks considerably less decent than the screencaps suggested.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by (No Imagination) »

Sonic can now fly, like Tails, but using feet as a propeller.

About the shading thing...I suspect they weren't going for an undulated surface, because it's not shaped properly even for that...seems to me like they applied shading across the pattern because they thought it looked cool and varied, like the nice fangame artists they are. (To produce the wavy effect, the checkers should have been LEFT NONE RIGHT BOTH, I think.)

(Disclamer: I am at no point attempting to imply the game will suck because of this. Just that it looks weird, sloppy and lazy.)

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by j-man »

I think that whole overlay thing will look a bit better at full speed. Slowed down like that, it's quite a jarring effect, but when sped up your eyes would 'fill in the gaps' and smooth the whole thing out. It's a bit big though, regardless. It seems like they tried to find a middle ground between the classic wheel legs and the peel-out legs, but as a result it's nearly engulfing Sonic's entire body.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by (No Imagination) »

...aw fuck, I was thinking about dropping this, but I'll post one more rant - need to get this off my chest. Neo and the resulting flares over the checkered shaded wall got me distracted, so I failed to mention my yesterday's problem was actually ... that wall Sonic's running on. No, not the pattern. The running surface.

Which way is it facing? If Sonic's running across it, it means it's facing right. But since it's shaded (dark), and this art is supposed to be highlighted from the right side...that means it's actually facing left and shows a hollow wall cross-sectioned, so we get to see through the surface into it. So Sonic's actually running on it, appearing like he was running on the checkered "cut" through the wall. But the dust clouds suggest otherwise - the way they appear to drift through that surface suggests Sonic's in fact running in front of it, which in turn means the wall must be either be facing right or not be solid in relation to the solid platform down there (which goes right through it as the wall wasn't even there).

I won't go any further into how that vertical running track abruptly and awkwardly ends in the grass in a way that would make MC Escher look the other way. In fact, I'm kind of anxious to play this game now, just to see how these graphical inconsistencies work out.
Last edited by (No Imagination) on Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Blount »

Sonic's wheel-of-feet looks even more disproportional than in Sonic Chaos. He should be careful not to kick his own face!

Edit - The blank page after I post is making me sad.

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Re: the shading shitstorm

Post by Yami CJMErl »

I was actually just making a casual observation based on what I saw, both picture and comment-wise. Whether or not the game LOOKS bad, I prefer saving my judgment for whether or not it PLAYS bad.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by G.Silver »

Surely, surely that running animation has some dubious source, where did it come from? The blur doesn't even match what his feet are doing.

Image

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Opa-Opa »

Ngangbius wrote:I don't know about all that tile crap that was spouted a page ago, but I do know that this running animation here:

Image

...looks half-assed.
Ew. It does. Sonic's feet should be visible behind, well, Sonic's feet.

You can see it here too: Image

Also did you guys notice the other character showed up on the "Featured" field? I'm not gonna tell you guys who it is, but it's Eggman.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

Okay, so those dark checks are supposed to be indentations this time around, but on that loop-de-loop they're not. Why couldn't they just make the dark checks just dark? It'd take less effort and look far better.

I mean, when playing Sonic 1, did you ever think of them as just a darker shade of soil?

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Locit »

G.Silver wrote:Surely, surely that running animation has some dubious source, where did it come from? The blur doesn't even match what his feet are doing.

Image
The blueish washout makes it look a lot like the flash animation of Sonic that runs through the background every few seconds on the official page.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Neo »

Protodude wrote:Just......how long did you stare at that picture to even realize that?
Sorry I have a good eye for graphics, I guess?

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by (No Imagination) »

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:Okay, so those dark checks are supposed to be indentations this time around, but on that loop-de-loop they're not. Why couldn't they just make the dark checks just dark? It'd take less effort and look far better.

I mean, when playing Sonic 1, did you ever think of them as just a darker shade of soil?
Always - I believe that was the point. This is my gripe with Dimps' general art direction: they have no idea of WHY the checkers looked good in Green Hill in the first place.

(Or, why they were even there. Green Hill wasn't made of checkers. It was made of grass, moss, soil, and rocks - you could see it in the background...the checkers were a tricky way to get the most color into every part of level art, so it could stand for any of that stuff in action. I think that's what made that art so vivid and vibrant, anyway.)

This level is not a remake of Green Hill Zone, but rather some original sort of Croatia Coast Zone. Which is fine by me, I've long since abandoned hope of Dimps' green level graphics going beyond Sunset Hill from Sonic Advance 3.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Ritz »

FlashTHD wrote:Ug, confused you for Ritz. Oops.
What?

I don't really have anything to add here, but I will note that the tiling in S3K seldom ever made complete sense- I mean, check out the leaves in Mushroom Hill. But to say that was a problem would be a bit of an overstatement, seeing how it was only through haphazard tiling that they managed to make the game look as visually complex as they did with the space limitations they had to work with. It's the general effect that counts. Though it clearly wasn't intentional, I'm totally seeing the undulation now that j-man mentioned it, and for all my pedantry, I'm perfectly fine with it. Far more interesting than the correct lighting would've been.

I still hate this project and everything it stands for.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by P.P.A. »

FlashTHD wrote:
Neo wrote:Did I say the shoddy tiling made Sonic 4 a piece of shit? Have we lost the right to give our opinions on stuff now? What the fuck?
If you ask that guy from Destructiod and I expect most of the press, yes.
...that Destructoid article was satire.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Locit »

Ritz wrote:I still hate this project and everything it stands for.
You mean making money? Like pretty much any console game?

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