"Sonic Chronicles" trademarked by Sega

[Zeta]

You mean Pokemon?

No, Pokemon introduced Double Battles six years ago, which is more innovation than Dragon Quest ever had. And there's the whole 100 new playable characters introduced every four years thing, too.

[Ngangbius]

Except that Dragon Quest started as a one character vs. the world. The second game introduces a party for the series. The third uses a class system which is a bit more complicated than the one in the first FF. The fourth has multiple scenarios through the view points of characters who will become your party to be when you finally play as the hero. The fifth chronicles the hero's life as a boy to a man, to a married man, to having children who will fight along your side, and it introduces recruting monsters as playable characters who would become the foundation of the DQ Monsters series. The sixth, I haven't played or read any info yet. The seventh reintroduces the class system in a much more complex manner and it has one of the longest intros in a RPG where it would be an hour or so until your first battle. And in eight you learn skills through assigning points to the PCs' attributes and there is also that alchemy pot.

So, I don't think the series is lacking in innovation.

[Zeta]

Except that Dragon Quest started as a one character vs. the world. The second game introduces a party for the series. The third uses a class system which is a bit more complicated than the one in the first FF. The fourth has multiple scenarios through the view points of characters who will become your party to be when you finally play as the hero. The fifth chronicles the hero's life as a boy to a man, to a married man, to having children who will fight along your side, and it introduces recruting monsters as playable characters who would become the foundation of the DQ Monsters series. The sixth, I haven't played or read any info yet. The seventh reintroduces the class system in a much more complex manner and it has one of the longest intros in a RPG where it would be an hour or so until your first battle. And in eight you learn skills through assigning points to the PCs' attributes and there is also that alchemy pot.

Oh please, I can do the exact same thing with Pokemon.

Pokemon - the first started off as a main character catching monsters who were static and limited, the second introduced breeding and gender as well as color variation as well as time mechanics and two new types of monsters, the third introduced a new type of competition based around performance and individual personalities for each monster as well as species specific abilities and the ability to use two monsters in battle at once, the fourth changed the way stats work to make all types of monsters more useful along with online communication and play.


Now compare Dragon Quest to the changes the Final Fantasy games undergo with each title, please.

[K2J]

I would agree that in terms of the story element, probably the key part of any RPG, Pokémon games have remained stagnant through the years. The GameCube outings tried to spice it up, but I don't think they were high-profile enough. Sure, there's always a slightly different team subplot, but recently they've gotten boring, and don't tend to have a lot of impact on the getting-badges routine.

[Locit]

Oh please, I can do the exact same thing with Pokemon. The second was damn near identical to the first, but many of its monsters lacked the charm of the first game's, with subsequent iterations taking this even further as well as making things needlessly complex.

Fix'd!

[Zeta]

Oh please, I can do the exact same thing with Pokemon. The second was damn near identical to the first, and I didn't like the new characters because I wasn't nostalgic about them and thought ideas like a ball with a face on it and a pile of living goo were original just because the series was new and I don't understand how the rules have changed because just having Alakazam kill everything stopped working.

Fix'd!

Fix'd.

[CM August]

Stop this. Stop this at once.

[Zeta]

On another topic entirely, financial reports from Capcom have confirmed Monster Hunter 3 for the US. Joy.

[Ngangbius]

^Was there ever any doubt? Monster Hunter 2 G is also coming to the US.

I actually pointed out Pokemon specifically for the very responses that were in K2J's and Locit's post. That series is regarded as more "stagnant" to many people of the gaming public, even more so than DQ despite the fact that it had little innovations within the series to spice it up such as Pokemon personalities, separation of certain stats, day/night cycles, etc.

My point is, just because DQ or even for that matter Pokemon doesn't make drastic changes with each entry just like the FF games doesn't mean that there is no innovation at all for either series.

[Zeta]

I think I see it mostly that way because I see DQ and FF as competitors even though SE has merged, but Pokemon's competitors have all died out long before now.

[Delphine]

8 started out on thin ice and pretty much implodes into a black hole of nonsensical drivel about time travel and sorceresses and love stories and moons and eating time and reincarnation and memory loss and orphanages and colleges for mercenaries and giant moon platforms and catfronpeople and playing cards and contrivances after the first 20 minutes alone.

Whatever, it's epically bad and I enjoyed it. Go suck cocks or something.

[Ritz]

What's so terrible and nonsensical about time travel and giant moon platforms to begin with, anyway? In fact, the Time Compression scene was probably the coolest part of the entire game. Sorry if it was too cool for you or something.

[Crowbar]

There's nothing terrible about either, what's terrible is the way FFVIII uses them (and every other element of its plot).

Or were you trolling?

[Ritz]

Or were you trolling?

I wasn't. I am, in actuality, very passionate about FFVIII, and it pains me to have to witness it endure such harsh and unfounded criticism from members of what I presumed to be a consortium of gamers with refined tastes.

That was borderline trolling, though.

[Baba O'Riley]

It's all very silly. I mean, very rarely will an RPG storyline tread new ground, and when it does, it tends to do so artlessly and pretty clumsily.

[Crowbar]

Or were you trolling?

I wasn't. I am, in actuality, very passionate about FFVIII, and it pains me to have to witness it endure such harsh and unfounded criticism from members of what I presumed to be a consortium of gamers with refined tastes.

That was borderline trolling, though.

Well if you like it you like it, and that's fine. I mean, I love the everloving SHIT out of FFX, and I know lots of people would think me a moron for that.

Hope you didn't take my question the wrong way, I just honestly wasn't sure.

[Protodude]

VIII was actually the first one I played, so in that respect I'm fond of it, but I never really got far in it and after lending it to a friend the first disc wont read well on my dieing PS2, which I suppose is for the better. X was the first one I really played though, and one of the only RPGs I've ever beaten. So that one remains my favorite by far. The neo-fantasy-ish world, the simplistic but not archaic battle system, the music, (most) of the characters, the story.

Really though I've played plenty of RPGs but never beat any of them. I got plenty far in Persona 3, Lunar, Xenogears, FFV, Tales of the Abyss......but I always end up going to another new game for a week or so, and when I go back to them I just lose interest. I don't know, it seems like most of the games I play nowadays are only in the 20, maybe 30 hour range or less.

[Locit]

Oh please, I can do the exact same thing with Pokemon. The second was damn near identical to the first, and I didn't like the new characters because I wasn't nostalgic about them and thought ideas like a ball with a face on it and a pile of living goo were original just because the series was new and I don't understand how the rules have changed because just having Alakazam kill everything stopped working.

Fix'd!

Fix'd.

I see what you did there.

I never liked Alakazam, though.

[Brazillian Cara]

Nobody liked fighting one, that's for sure.

I might have the dubious(?) honor of being the only person in this forum, with more than 10 years of gaming experience, to have never touched a Final Fantasy game - in fact, the only "classic-styled" RPG I've played for more than 10 minutes so far was Megaman X Command Mission (aka Breath of Fire with androids). It wasn't for lack of trying, tough - it's not easy to find games like these for rental around here, and I'm still looking for Skies of Arcadia Legends.

Now, for some real contribution to the topic: of the FF games re-made for the DS (3, 4, whatever else I don't know about), which one would be a potential good start/only pick for a beginner?

[Ngangbius]

Neither are great for a beginner since the DS versions of both games are really challenging. If you want a Final Fantasy game for the DS then get the GBA versions as they are generally novice-friendly, especially FF6 which is one of the easier entries in the whole franchise.

[Zeta]

Now, for some real contribution to the topic: of the FF games re-made for the DS (3, 4, whatever else I don't know about), which one would be a potential good start/only pick for a beginner?

I would recommend 3 as the pinnacle of the job system and the perfection of the ideas presented in the first two games in the series. With one BIG warning. There are a limited number of Phoenix Downs in the game. Until you get a job that can raise the dead, try very hard not to die since the punishment for such in FFIII is much higher than in other RPGs - you can literally end up with a party full of corpses. However, with the right quartet of jobs the game is a snap. I would avoid four, since characters are constantly getting killed off or otherwise permanently removed from the party and that concept just sounds irritating. Imagine an Aeris event for EVERY PARTY member and you'll have some idea of how FF4 plays.

[Ngangbius]

What makes 3 the pinnacle of the job system of this franchise as opposed to 5, Tactics, and X-2? I'm curious as I haven't played FF3DS yet, but I did play FF5 and the first Tactics, and I'm assuming the job system structure in those games are more advanced than that of FF3.

[Baba O'Riley]

I would avoid four, since characters are constantly getting killed off or otherwise permanently removed from the party and that concept just sounds irritating. Imagine an Aeris event for EVERY PARTY member and you'll have some idea of how FF4 plays.

Well, that's not exactly how it works, and aside from the occasional useless sack of shit, most of your party members have a good amount of utility and you generally manage through it.

[Zeta]

What makes 3 the pinnacle of the job system of this franchise as opposed to 5, Tactics, and X-2? I'm curious as I haven't played FF3DS yet, but I did play FF5 and the first Tactics, and I'm assuming the job system structure in those games are more advanced than that of FF3.

Its just generally more balanced than the job system in most other games. I've never palyed FF5, so I wouldn't know too much about it.

Well, that's not exactly how it works, and aside from the occasional useless sack of shit, most of your party members have a good amount of utility and you generally manage through it.

Still feels like a title comprised of nothing but Guest Star Party members.

[Baba O'Riley]

Well, that's not exactly how it works, and aside from the occasional useless sack of shit, most of your party members have a good amount of utility and you generally manage through it.

Still feels like a title comprised of nothing but Guest Star Party members.

You wouldn't be entirely wrong.