Sonic Unleashed?

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.

Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Ngangbius » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:24 am

Was the framerate awful like people said it was in that version?
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby UCHU » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:21 am

Radrappy wrote:Wassamatter? Too fast for ya?


SHUT UP.

Well, it sorta was actually. I kept veering into every single obstacle imaginable and fell down every single (one) bottomless cliff. And that was without boost.

Ngangbius wrote:Was the framerate awful like people said it was in that version?


Yeah. It jumped all over the place, going from a silky smooth 60 FPS to as low as 15 when there was shit happening.

I don't know how to describe my feelings for this game. It sucks on the first try but when you actually know what's coming it's sorta okay. I don't know whether I like it or not. It's just...I don't know.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Segaholic2 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:40 am

Yeah, I played the demo. While the 360 version at least kept a decent framerate for the Sonic stuff and only dropped during Werehog stuff, the PS3 version slows down constantly in the Sonic stage in the demo. Terrible.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby hedgepig » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:54 pm

Sonic Rushed?
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby DackAttac » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:22 pm

Ngangbius wrote:That has to be the most venomous Yahtzee review I've viewed. Even his Too Human review wasn't filled with that much vitriol. It also mean that this will be the only Sonic game he'll ever review. :lol:

And he is right on the money with most of his points.


I usually agree with all of his points, but never seem to think as poorly of the game as he does. I usually bank on him to take an overrated game that I like but nowhere near as much as everyone else, and take it down a few pegs (Smash Brothers being a prime example). I suppose I possibly just have lower standards (possibly a side effect of liking Sonic games and looking to scrape the good out of them a little too much), but I still love that ZP exists and that people listen because he holds games to the same standards film critics hold movies to. Someone needs to stop letting flaws in games slide with a shrug and a "Well, it's just a game. Let's be picky." I find Metal Gear Solid's cinematics impressive, but listening to Yahtzee tear them apart for being endless and convoluted was somewhat therapeutic, knowing that someone is willing to look a gift horse in the mouth for me so I don't need to risk being bitten.

So I was kind of floored when he had such a poor opinion of this game, thinking he'd have a quick and witty course of action to fix the series that didn't dawn on the magazine critics (I got hopeful when he compared the breakneck speed portions to a ROMhack), but he seems to be towing the "Sonic doesn't work in 3D line" which pisses me off, because I still hold SA1 as one of my personal favorite 3D platformers, and as much time as I killed enjoyably with some of the recent 2D games, they don't come close.

Still yet to play this one, even the demo, though I'm closing in on getting a 360 (finally got a new job), but I'm worried about this. I'm afraid it's gotten to the point that I'm jonesing so hard for a platformer whilst there appears to be no other fix for my addiction on the foreseeable horizon, I want this game to be better than I can realistically expect it to be.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby hedgepig » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:38 pm

I'd say Unleashed has most of the same flaws and strengths as SA2. Personally I'd put it slightly below SA2 in the gameplay department because I prefer tedious treasure hunting and shooting to tedious werehog gameplay.

Where it beats SA2 for me is in art style and charm. I'd recommend it as a good, fun and well made game that bodes well for future titles.

Go Sachiko!
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Ngangbius » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:22 am

I'd recommend it as a good, fun and well made game that bodes well for future titles.


I disagree with this. Other than the inevitable gimmick no one asked for, I don't see Sonic Team drastically improving Sonic's controls and possibly spamming the hell out of QTE for the next Sonic game after Black Knight. I just have a feeling they are complacent with the way Sonic the Hedgehog is now due to the nearly universal praise of the day time levels from the gaming media, when in reallity it could be better.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Locit » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:15 pm

If we could get a game of nothing but daytime-style levels on par with the quality of, say, Mazuri or Chun-nan, I would be ecstatic.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Dash » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:08 pm

Mazuri is probably my favorite level design, what with it's large tree where the only penalty for falling was going around again, adding more time. Actually very similar to Twinkle Park in that way.

It's true that the regular Sonic levels have flaws, but I think it would take a whole game full of those levels before the critics in general realize it.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Rolken » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:54 am

Plus, for a reviewer, there are so many more obvious and fatal flaws that picking apart the stuff that more or less doesn't suck just wouldn't be sporting. They're not going to be changing any purchase decisions at that point anyway; only the diehard desperate fans would be buying a game after reading that merely the majority of it is trash. It's like scolding someone for picking his nose while he rapes a girl.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby FlashTHD » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:10 pm

Myself on page 2 wrote:...I don't mean to strike any more terror into people's hearts, but who was that blogger who said NiGHTS 2 was originally on the 360 or PS3 but was shifted over the Wii? In the same post he said something really, really cryptic - though sarcastically - about Sega eventually making a Sonic game featuring a, to paraphrase, "Werewolf Sonic who can stretch his arms out Dahlsim-style".

GOD. DAMN! I finally tracked this thing down! And it was made no easier by the fact that the blogger in question, a Mr. jpeg of Boss Rush, had one month later wiped it clean and abandoned it with a goodbye message. Lucky for me, archive.org was paying attention and has the relevant post. And he wasn't being so sarcastic...

You can click the link but i'm just going to lump the whole thing in here below, so it'll be stored on the board for search/archival purposes. Because, I swear I first heard about this here, but with what clues I had the board search engine was no help. If anyone with editing powers finds this wall of text annoying, then do what you will.

From March 28th 2007:
So a NiGHTS sequel has almost been confirmed (Update - 2/4/07: It's official now.). If only that made me as happy as when I first heard about it. Unfortunately it doesn't. You see, working in the games industry affords me a somewhat unique view of the industry, including this game in particular. As much as I'd love to believe otherwise, from what I have seen and experienced of it so far I'm 90% certain this game will disappoint. Of course there are still many months of development left, but unfortunately this is not seen as a "it'll be released when it's done" game by Sega bosses... there is a tight and relatively short schedule. Consider this: work didn't even begin on this Wii version until around Sept/Oct 2006 (up to that point it was being developed for X360/PS3 until those platforms were canned against Iizuka-san's wishes) and it's due out this autumn-winter. Take into account the 4-6 week Nintendo submission time and you're basically talking about roughly a year's actual development (i.e. coding; not pre-production) time.

The fact that it's being made at all is not even a good sign, for this only came about due to a combination of Iizuka-san's efforts and Sega's managers finally relenting and giving Sonic Team a brief break from the monotony of Sonic related development (e.g in Sonic Team USA's case Shadow The Hedgehog) - there is no genuine expectation from Sega's bosses that this title will perform well and thus they will spare little development time, thought and marketing spend on it. Furthermore I know Sonic Team, by which I mean I know them in person, in a professional sense. I know how they work, and the (difficult) conditions they work under. I also know the aforementioned Iizuka-san, the director of this new NiGHTS game (who was also one of the leading creative forces behind the original NiGHTS). Knowing all this, I am still not hopeful (not, I should clarify, for any lack of faith in Iizuka-san's talent and commitment, neither of which are in question; but rather because of the environment and conditions he has been forced to work in on this project).

Sonic Team, for all their past accomplishments (long past one should emphasize), are not the development force they once were. They no longer represent that name and ideal they so desperately cling onto now. While other great SEGA studios - UGA, Hitmaker, Smilebit, Overworks, Rosso - became dissolved and re-structured into new R&D departments (or in UGA's case became part of Sonic Team); Sonic Team managed to keep its name (at least externally for marketing reasons) and position thanks to the efforts (and in no small part the massive ego) of Yuji Naka. But this move was what trapped the team in a Sonic-filled purgatory, and ultimately led to Naka's departure in 2006. Instead of using the re-structuring for good Sonic Team became complacent slaves of their earlier successes. Their primary goal now is purely business driven: to please the managing directors wth good ROIs; this is not so abnormal - it is a business after all - but they leave little room for creativity and originality in their particular brand of working practices.

So here we are. Clearly the blame does not lay squarely at Naka and Sonic Team's door - the direction of Sega (or rather Sammy) as a corporation; the narrow-minded short-term annual business-plan practices and development processes (i.e. tight development schedule) that demand yearly churning out of Sonic products all play a major part in potentially damanging any chances NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams has of being a good game. But there's no doubt that Sonic Team have lost their quality touch. They are worse than talentless: they are without passion. Bored, weary, closed-minded and out of touch with any sense of what makes games good anymore; not to mention what consumers want (and in the long-term what the company itself so desperately needs).

Sonic Team are a relic from a past age who have overstayed their welcome. For the same marketing reasons that their name was initially kept (and has since backfired) they should be dissolved - it may already be too late for NiGHTS (and I really hope it isn't and they manage to turn it around, which with Iizuka-san's passion for the project is a possibility), but for the good of the company's image; for the future of Sega's other prestigious IPs and lastly for its iconic mascot it needs to be done... before they release another Sonic game with a transforming Evil 'Night' Sonic who looks like a werewolf and can stretch his arms out Dhalsim-style. It will happen, mark my words.


Bonus: follow-up in the comments wrote:Also, let me take this chance to clarify a few things that I have been asked by people regarding this post. Firstly, I have actually seen and played the code (both the Wii version and the older X360 version last year). Secondly, and related to that, there is the issue of supported platforms, which is a bit complex so let me start from the beginning.

1) Iizuka-san originally only wanted to make NiGHTS 2 on the X360 and PS3 - his vision for the game, which was a pretty grand one, could only be done on those platforms he argued and development started on them, even though the actual GDD was still being fleshed out and a Wii version was being considered.

2) By the time of TGS last year there were playable ROMS on X360 and the general response to the code was not positive. At this stage the directors questioned the X360/PS3 SKUs and suggested that Wii may be a better choice. Iizuka-san was against this because it would mean reigning in certain aspects of his design, but nonetheless Sega Studio USA (AKA Sonic Team USA) drew up a comparison doc for Wii and X360/PS3 version pros and cons. The summary of this was that they could produce a quick Wii version by FYO8 (2007) and then go onto a different version of NiGHTS 2 on X360/PS3 for FY09 (2008). By different I mean, different like Sonic The Hedgehog on X360/PS3 was a completely different title than Sonic Wii.

3) This was all up in the air for some time, and in the meantime Iizuka-san was convinced to start working on the Wii version primarily, leaving the other SKUs behind. Essentially they were canned, but there was and still is the option to continue as suggested and work on those versions once the Wii version is finished and released. In other words, NiGHTS on X360/PS3 is dependant on the success of NiGHTS on Wii.

So there you go.

Edit: Post 777. Hahahahaha
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby FlashTHD » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:26 pm

Correction: guy's name is Ben Andac.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Ritz » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:39 pm

He's got a damn good track record. Seeing as how he was the "Standards Coordinator" for all of those games, and he clearly knows what he's talking about, I guess it's safe to say that Sega only even bothers hiring these folks for face value?
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby FlashTHD » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm

Shadow the Hedgehog (2005), SEGA of America, Inc.

hahaha oh wow. I'm even more glad I re-found this. To be honest I was getting a lil' obsessed with doing so, as I was starting to feel like I might have hallucinated the whole thing.

In my googling I also stumbled onto a (dead and unarchived) link to the moment where Naka called Yasuhara useless. It was from the run-up to Heroes so I guess many of you have seen it; for those not so lucky, I found the full quote in an old old Sonic 2 Beta thread...
What do you think of the way the Sonic games have evolved; was it a problem when one of your team members left to work with Sony?

Yuji Naka: Yeah, one of the guys from our team went to work on Jak and Daxter! As for the original titles, I was involved from the beginning, the creation of the game. The character was born in a kind of stream of creating, so I'm involved from the very beginning of the character. I gave the game direction, and I was the main programmer also.

So I was involved with every aspect of the original Sonics. Some of the details, like making a map, quite straight-forward stuff, was done by the guy who's working on Jak and Daxter right now. He was involved until Sonic 3, and after that for eight years he didn't do anything in Sega, so he was quite useless in Sega. We really didn't need him. He was really doing nothing with Sonic.

...eugh. Cold.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Ngangbius » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:51 pm

I wonder, is he still at Sega? I'm assuming if he was able to disclose all this info, this wouldn't be the case.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby hedgepig » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:04 am

I'm glad Sega Studios USA have been laid to rest. That team is responsible for a rather large nadir in the series that I think we are only just beginning to climb out of.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby One Classy Bloke » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:41 am

FlashTHD wrote:Correction: guy's name is Ben Andac.


Holy shit! I worked with that guy. Interesting fact, he wears an eye patch as he is apparently missing an eye.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Dasher » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:33 am

The man is truly a hero! so SSU has been shut down eh? when did this happen?
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby FlashTHD » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:12 pm

Dasher wrote:The man is truly a hero! so SSU has been shut down eh? when did this happen?

Recently. I forget who mentioned it, but either Hashimoto or Nishiyama explained that SSUSA has been folded back into the Mother Ship.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Ritz » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:35 pm

FlashTHD wrote:
So I was involved with every aspect of the original Sonics. Some of the details, like making a map, quite straight-forward stuff, was done by the guy who's working on Jak and Daxter right now. He was involved until Sonic 3, and after that for eight years he didn't do anything in Sega, so he was quite useless in Sega. We really didn't need him. He was really doing nothing with Sonic.

Son of a bitch. Wasn't it already said that Naka was responsible for Oshima jumping ship as well? Was that just conjecture, or do we have a snide interview remark to back that up? I hope Prope falls right on its erect penis, by the way!

(And snaps in two)

One Classy Bloke wrote:
FlashTHD wrote:Correction: guy's name is Ben Andac.


Holy shit! I worked with that guy. Interesting fact, he wears an eye patch as he is apparently missing an eye.

No wonder he's such a badass, then. Did he lose the eye before or after he started leaking information?
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby DackAttac » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:25 pm

Ritz wrote:Son of a bitch. Wasn't it already said that Naka was responsible for Oshima jumping ship as well? Was that just conjecture, or do we have a snide interview remark to back that up? I hope Prope falls right on its erect penis, by the way!

(And snaps in two)

Look, I may agree with you, but that post made my legs cross involuntarily.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Dasher » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:11 am

http://www.sonicteam.co.jp/SonicWorldAd ... /director/

In this site it actually explains how they took the element of Sonic in 2D and the best of Sonic in 3D to make this game.

There is also other stuff which I'm to lazy to translate, also wasn't the Night of the Werehog coming to that Japan site? what happened? it shows links to other sites, what does it all mean?
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby P.P.A. » Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:42 am

While Naka is still being an attention-whoring asshole, Oshima reveals he actually did stuff in Sonic Spinball and how he values the talented teams he worked and works with.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10 ... 0001-1.png
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10 ... rview1.png
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10 ... an0003.png

Apparently from a TSS thread. Which I couldn't access because I have never registered there so a person on an IRC channel who did kindly linked them directly.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby One Classy Bloke » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:31 am

Ritz wrote:
One Classy Bloke wrote:
FlashTHD wrote:Correction: guy's name is Ben Andac.


Holy shit! I worked with that guy. Interesting fact, he wears an eye patch as he is apparently missing an eye.

No wonder he's such a badass, then. Did he lose the eye before or after he started leaking information?


I never actually found out, as he was rather intimidating, which you would expect from a person with an eye patch.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Postby Dasher » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:43 pm

P.P.A. wrote:While Naka is still being an attention-whoring asshole, Oshima reveals he actually did stuff in Sonic Spinball and how he values the talented teams he worked and works with.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10 ... 0001-1.png
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10 ... rview1.png
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10 ... an0003.png

Apparently from a TSS thread. Which I couldn't access because I have never registered there so a person on an IRC channel who did kindly linked them directly.


THANKYOU SOOO MUCH!!! *Saves pages* Oshima is truly the man! thanks for putting this up, I enjoyed reading that interview~! :PY: :PY: :PY:

Oh and Merry Christmas! :ER: :EG:
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