Oh Dear Fucking God, Sonic MMORPG.

[Ngangbius]

The difference between Nintendo whoring Mario out and Sonic Team whoring Sonic out is that most (keyword: most) of the Mario spin-offs have actually been good.

I don't think that argument can be used anymore. Did Nintendo show anything at E3 that wasn't a goddamn Mario game? I'm just sick of seeing the character.

Boy, that it's come to this, when I can say I'm fucking sick of Mario.

~~Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
~~Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
~~Kirby's Canvas Curse(which I heard great things about)
~~Nintendogs(ditto)
~~Those Advance Wars games for the DS and GCN
~~And a whole bunch of other games I don't feel like listing

Also, out of the Mario games announced, I am most looking forward too are the DS ones, Super Mario Brothers(a brand new platformer) and Mario and Luigi 2(a sequel to one of the coolest RPGs I've ever played and a game that does the Mario universe more justice than SMS, the non-RPG spin-offs, and arguebly SM64).

Also, I maybe making this statement too soon, but I think I'm starting to like Nintendo's Intelligent System(Warioware, Paper Mario, Mother, Fire Emblem, etc.) division like I used to go giddy over Sonic Team and Squaresoft.

[WhoopA]

Intelligent Systems brought you Panel de Pon / Tetris Attack. Love it, bitch.

[Professor Machenstein]

I've been thinking about the things Squirrelknight and Dark Crow said earlier. So you don't hate the new Sonic games because they're new, but because of these twists and features that embroil the Sonic formula? Sounds fair enough. I'm all in for simplicity, I really am. I don't really have big grudge against things like team-action or arsenal usage, but I see what you guys are on about. Still, I don't think you people should stress the mortality of Sonic Team... Unless you're doing it for laughs, then I'm cool with that.

[Squirrelknight]

Also, I maybe making this statement too soon, but I think I'm starting to like Nintendo's Intelligent System(Warioware, Paper Mario, Mother, Fire Emblem, etc.) division like I used to go giddy over Sonic Team and Squaresoft.

Yeah, Intelligent Systems deserves a lot more credit-- I'm pretty sure they haven't made a bad game yet. I just wish Nintendo would stop being a cock parade and would bring over the Mother 1 & 2 compilation for GBA.

I don't think that argument can be used anymore. Did Nintendo show anything at E3 that wasn't a goddamn Mario game? I'm just sick of seeing the character.

Nintendo's entire line-up at this year's E3 was pretty sparse, but they had a good amount of non-Mario titles... though yeah, most of them were sequels/expansions of existing franchises. Seeing as Nintendo has pretty much cemented itself into 3rd or 2nd place this generation, they seem to be playing it safe with their franchises for now and saving anything really new for the next gen. I mean, there's no point in announcing any revolutionary (no pun intended) games for your current crop of systems when the next-gen is about to begin.

So you don't hate the new Sonic games because they're new, but because of these twists and features that embroil the Sonic formula?

I'm not against trying new ideas in the new Sonic games, I'm just against trying obviously bad ideas in Sonic games. I mean, Shadow with a gun? That's obviously such a blatant attempt to appeal to a teenage/"mature" demographic that it had to have been thought of by some crackhead marketing team rather than a real game designer. Trust me, I want a new, good Sonic game as much as anybody else-- And if somehow manages to incorporate some new ideas well, then it'll be even better. But since most of the recent Sonic Team titles have sucked, and the new ones have a high probability of sucking, I'm not going to get my hopes up for a quality Sonic game anytime soon.

[j-man]

Thing is though, when it came to Shadow they did do their homework. All the Sonic fanboys are bitching because a) Shadow is still alive and b) guns are somehow incorporated. Everyone starts raving about GTA clones and the end of civilisation. It just so happens that everyone I know, and I mean everyone, thinks it's an awesome idea because, being typically destructive teenage boys, we love games where you run around shooting the shit out of everything in sight. Granted, they are mostly casual gamers, but a hefty amount of them grew up with Sonic games, and see it as a welcome change of direction rather than a hideous act of blasphemy akin to pissing on a copy of the Bible.

I think it looks fucking awesome, and I'm buying it on the release date and not a day later. So there. Grr.

p.s. mario is ghey apart from paper mario thx

[Green Gibbon!]

I guess I'm just not enough of a Nintendo fanboy to give a shit about Metroid fucking Pinball, regardless of how "good" it's supposed to be. The only E3 Nintendo game that sort of tickles my fancy is Odama. Is that even being published by Nintendo?

Also, a while back, I want to think I saw screenshots of some game where you actually play super-deformed Nintendo execs or something. I swear I saw this thing and I have a friend who saw it too, but neither of us have seen or heard anything on it since. Was it a dual illusion?

[Baba O'Reily]

You know, this topic made me think about an idea I had during my Algebra exam:
Sonic Golf. It could completely mock all of the aspects that make a Sonic game fun to play, and there can be cheesy quotes whenever anybody does anything. There can even be a golf cart battle minigame!

[j-man]

Debuting new character, Argyle The Water Vole!

[Zeta]

I think it looks fucking awesome, and I'm buying it on the release date and not a day later. So there. Grr.

. . . I don't, I don't love you anymore.

Thanks for ruining it!

I guess I'm just not enough of a Nintendo fanboy to give a shit about Metroid fucking Pinball, regardless of how "good" it's supposed to be. The only E3 Nintendo game that sort of tickles my fancy is Odama. Is that even being published by Nintendo?

I felt the same way about Sonic Spinball, but that didn't stop me from loving Sonic Adventure.

[Green Gibbon!]

I felt the same way about Sonic Spinball, but that didn't stop me from loving Sonic Adventure.

So where's the next Mario Adventure? All I'm seeing is Mario Spinball 3 and Mario 3D Blast 4 and Mario Rugby and Tiddlywinks, and Crazy 8's Starring Mario. Where are the fresh ideas and creative thinking that made Nintendo the star of the industry for two decades? I have increasingly less tolerance for sequels that don't introduce significant evolution, much less for sequels of spin-offs. Nintendo doesn't make games anymore so much as they propagate franchises, and I'm sick of it.

[Ngangbius]

Appearently, Odama is being published by Nintendo. And while I like Nintendo's games, I'm not too interested in Metroid Pinball either. I'm more anticipating those two Kirby games(one which has already been released on the DS), Fire Emblem GCN(though I need to get those GBA games too), LoZ: Twilight Princess, and that Odama game interest me also aside from the Mario games I mentioned.

Also, I'm curious GG! but have you ever played any of the Pikmin games?

Thing is though, when it came to Shadow they did do their homework. All the Sonic fanboys are bitching because a) Shadow is still alive and b) guns are somehow incorporated. Everyone starts raving about GTA clones and the end of civilisation. It just so happens that everyone I know, and I mean everyone, thinks it's an awesome idea because, being typically destructive teenage boys, we love games where you run around shooting the shit out of everything in sight. Granted, they are mostly casual gamers, but a hefty amount of them grew up with Sonic games, and see it as a welcome change of direction rather than a hideous act of blasphemy akin to pissing on a copy of the Bible.

I think it looks fucking awesome, and I'm buying it on the release date and not a day later. So there. Grr.

p.s. mario is ghey apart from paper mario thx

Thing is, it doesn't look like Sega/former Sonic Team hasn't learned their lesson from the trailers and videos I've seen. Not only does this game look like a mid Dreamcast-era game, but the level design still looks broken(hello bottomless pits), ugly art direction, and the reusage of the Sonic Heroes engine instead of improving it reeks of laziness. I'm going to assume this game will also have a shoddy camera afterall and there will probably be several actions that Shadow will perform all assigned to one button. =/ I predict this game will be as enjoyable or even less than enjoyable than SH.

But eh, what do I know I'm not in the right demographic in which Sega is targeting this game as I'm probably the wrong gender and too old to appreciate a game that was inspired from awful fanfiction by Sonniku the Battousai. Mostly too old though, since most people near my age group around various message boards including this one are calling this game moronic. However, there are also some teens I know that are also calling it 'ghey'.

So while some of you will play that Shadow the Hedgehog game, I'll be playing the real Shadow game to keep an eye for: Shadow of the Colossus. Also, I wonder which angst-ridden spin-off will be a bigger bust: Shadow the Hedgehog or Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus?

P.S. Even SMB3, SMW, and SM64?

[j-man]

I'm predicting nothing toward Shadow, instead I'm keeping my hopes high and seeing how it turns out. I also happen to like the art direction and I think the graphics are far superior to Dreamcast quality. The screenshots did nothing for me, but it was the trailer that really piqued my curiosity. I think it'll be better than Heroes, but then again that's not much of a stretch.

[Green Gibbon!]

I'm more anticipating those two Kirby games(one which has already been released on the DS), Fire Emblem GCN(though I need to get those GBA games too), LoZ: Twilight Princess, and that Odama game interest me also aside from the Mario games I mentioned.

You see, I don't care about any of these except Odama. I don't even think that new Zelda looks like all that and a bag of Fritos. It's not just Nintendo, I mean, I don't care about Metal Gear 4, or Gran Turismo 5, or Devil May Cry 3 or 4, I don't care about Halo 3 or Project Gotham 2, I don't care about Shining Tears or Final Fantasy 27 or Shadow the fucking Hedgehog or Kirby's Rolly-polly whatever for the DS.

Is it really just me? Am I just losing touch? Because that thought terrifies me more than any evident deterioration of the industry.

[Ngangbius]

Maybe you should take a break from video games or just retire from this hobby by the time next-gen comes.

Or you can just check out info about Okami(which looks really nice and I have anticipating it since I first saw the screenshots) or just rent Psychonauts which I heard was a good platformer.

[Neo Yi]

Or you can just check out info about Okami(which looks really nice and I have anticipating it since I first saw the screenshots) or just rent Psychonauts which I heard was a good platformer.

I'm quite expecting high hopes with Okami and I have been hearing good things about Psychonauts.
~Neo

[Green Gibbon!]

See, but I think Okami looks amazing. Wanda to Kyozou looks amazing. I also want to play Odama, Bumpy Trot, Homeland, and even Zettai Zetsumei 2. It's all this mainstream franchise dreck, this Mario Croquet Metal Gear Plasma, Grand Theft Halo Final Fantasy Yoshi Pokemon Redux 6 bullshit I think is a crock.

Last time things got out of control this bad was in 1983, and the whole market crashed. I'd personally love to see that happen again, except that a part of me knows the only survivor would be EA.

[big_smile]

Also, a while back, I want to think I saw screenshots of some game where you actually play super-deformed Nintendo execs or something. I swear I saw this thing and I have a friend who saw it too, but neither of us have seen or heard anything on it since. Was it a dual illusion?

Is this it?:

^_^

[Squirrelknight]

I don't think the industry right now is any worse than it usually is-- Its always been drowning in sequels and franchises, and there's always only going to be just a handful of games that you'll care about-- Putting nostalgia aside, if you look at the libraries for systems in the past, they're filled with just as much shit as the newer systems.

It's just the crap nowadays often takes the form of quick, cash-in sequels, where as the crap in the older generations usually took the form of crappy one-shot franchises copied off of other games-- Anyone remember Aero The Acrobat, Punky Skunk, or any of the other animals with "attitude" that flooded the market after Sonic came out? Or the flood of mediocre 2d fighters that came out after Street Fighter 2?

The majority of games that come out are either completely forgettable or just plain crap; it's that way now because that's the way it always has been. However, games becoming "mainstream" has forced companies to rely more on existing franchises, since casual gamers seem to base their purchases on name recognition rather than quality... So instead of crappy copy-off games we get crappy sequels and spin-offs.

It's not that the videogame companies are behaving any differently then they usually do, it's just people are finally starting to notice the problems within the industry.

[chriscaffee]

Killzone 2 looks pretty cool so far.

[Green Gibbon!]

No, it really doesn't.

[Double-S-]

It's funny, because the Dreamcast avoided just about all of what SK talked about.

[Squirrelknight]

Yeah, well the Dreamcast is the exception. It had great, original games, and look at how it did financially. That's exactly why the current companies are focusing on sequels.

I blame casual gamers. And Rockstar. And MTV. And G4 TV. And Kaz Hirai. And your face.

[chriscaffee]

No, it really doesn't.

I forgot. Games are only good if they are obscure and Japanese.

[Delphine]

No, games are only good if you shoot a lot of stuff.

[Segaholic2]

No, they're only good when they're not non-interactive pre-rendered videos.