Mega Man Nine

[Zeta]

The arcade takes up two basketball-court-sized floors and is packed with a couple hundred cabinets. Right now most of them are in use, and around the newer, more popular games there are lines of three or four, or sometimes as many as a dozen people waiting to have a go.

Yes, and the same happens at a hentai convention in Japan, what's your point? My point was that the arcade culture revolves around attempting to stroke your ego by encouraging you to prove yourself better than the random, smelly stranger next to you. Or the guy who left the word "ASS" on the high score table. Without said guy, and without the satisfaction of being able to wave your wang around in public, the draw of the arcade lessens and eventually dies.

Game developers remove the score. Game players realize they can have fun without the score. Gamers no longer care about the score, but just having fun. Arcade dies.

Yes, that's what I'd like! In other words, I want the videogame industry to halt all progress and instead endlessly repeat itself in order to accommodate little ignorant, lazy retards with bad taste like me."

Oh, the irony! When someone is complaining about how video games have moved beyond arcade-style gameplay and won't stop bitching about how much better it was in the good ol' days or Magic Japanland. He himself admits he just wanted video games to remain in that particular genre and simply grow more complex systems within the genre. Now he's having a fit because said genre is no longer popular in the Western world, but then complains about people who play minigames. I mean, Christ.

Because they are under the false impression that the indie game is the videogame equivalent to the indie movie, and that therefore praising it will confer on them an aura of coolness and sophistication or some shit.

Stop it, you're killing me! "I'm old school because I only play in Arcades and everyone else is a Homer Simpson Loser! HEY EVERYONE! SEE HOW OLD SCHOOL I AM?! This is how they fucking game in JAPAN! Hey you, playing World of Goo, stop that! You're just trying act cool! See that high score? That's me! THAT'S ME!!!"

[CM August]

Rassin-frassin kids getting their durn FMVs on my lawn! In my day, we didn't get any continues! We had to walk 13 miles in the snow uphill both ways to get the arcade! And we enjoyed it! These kids today with their hiphop and their hula hoops and their narratives and their character development and their dialogue and their cutscenes and their dungarees!

Obligatory.

"The problem with kids today, is that you're all too soft!"

[Zeta]

It's so funny too, because part of the reason Cranky Kong was so funny was that the video game medium was still just young enough back then to NOT HAVE GUYS LIKE THIS IN IT. That's what made it so funny, the very idea of the bitter nostolgiac who waxes about how the good old video game days were when he was a kid was an absurd idea. But I guess it had to kick in sometime. *sigh*

[Wombatwarlord777]

I don't remember being a bitter nostolgiac until encountering the GHZ online. Since then, its been nothing but bittersweet memories and dehumanizing cynicism. So... Thanks?

Oh, and I pray for the swift return of Sonic 1-though-3+K'esque glory. It'll happen someday...

[j-man]

Wow. Agree to disagree mirite??

The issue here is that some people consider "videogame" and "challenge" to be synonymous. It's nobody's fault, until they start telling people that the way they appreciate a medium is the "wrong" way to do it. Ya'll need to grasp the concept of subjectivity. Also, with the tl;r about that Alex guy fanwanking over arcades? Yeah, I'm not so sure about that. You're using arcades as an example against people who like to play their games in short bursts? Maybe I'm missing the point, here. Care to ram it up my arse any harder?

Again, there's no issue until somebody tries to pigeonhole an abstract art form. If two people can enjoy one game in two or more different ways, art has succeeded. If you call someone out for not playing to win, just playing for the sake of it, well, then you're on the Internet, I guess.

I don't really understand the spite a-flyin' in this thread. Just because someone doesn't ham out endless high scores on some scrolling shooter doesn't mean they while away their hours in comfortable cardigans, playing Cooking Mama or some such shit. Shades of grey, man. Shades of grey.

[Shadow Hog]

Is Isuka quoting that insane guy again? He should really stop looking up to him so much. Man's full of vitriolic shit, and needs to get off his high horse. Oh, whoo, he has a blog, suddenly he gets to dictate how all games should be designed and call everyone who likes any other kind of video game a "retard"! No.

That being said, I don't mind shorter games that much. I mean, most of the games I played on the Genesis were pretty damn short, when push comes to shove. Of course, they were also filled with tons of hidden goodies scattered all over the level to arbitrarily collect, and god damn did I love doing it. Plus, they were simultaneously really hard and really easy (if that even makes any sense). Like, the gameplay was really easy to get into, and you could typically get pretty far without too much hassle - although there were definitely challenges here and there designed to separate the men from the boys. But there was always that one part you'd get to that would cause you issues, until you figured out the working strategy for beating it... I liked things like that. Arcade games, meanwhile, just focus on being as hard as physically possible, most of the time. I can't say as I find that attractive, I find it disgustingly masochistic.

Although I will say that a lot of games are getting to be a bit too easy these days (You Have To Burn The Rope comes to mind - although that was a parody, it hit the nail on the head). Force-feeding hints down the player's throat doesn't help matters, either - remember when a player could learn all the basics of gameplay by just playing the first stage, and not from a dedicated tutorial level? Yeah. I kind of miss that. Not that games don't still do that here and there (Portal is pretty smart about letting the player figure out the cool crap they can do on their own, for instance, only holding their hand yea so much).

Maybe I just want more games like you got for the Genesis or something, I dunno. It always seems that the 8-bit years get the highlight when it comes to "looking back" and "retro", while 16-bit gets overlooked, and I don't understand that when, to be completely frank, for every 8-bit franchise that's out there, there's a 16-bit version that was more engrossing. Super Mario Bros.? Super Mario World. The Legend of Zelda? That first game kinda sucked anyway, to be honest; Link to the Past (and Link's Awakening) friggin' eclipsed it. Metroid? Same story - Super Metroid outdoes it in every way possible. Mega Man? Well, okay, Mega Man 2 is still one of the best games out there, but as far as gameplay goes, I prefer Mega Man X. Castlevania? Dracula X: Rondo of Blood. And that's not even counting franchises born during the era, like Sonic, or various one-shot titles that were either classics or otherwise very competent (Earthworm Jim and its first sequel, Aladdin for either console, Animanaics for the Genesis, Chrono Trigger, Wolfenstein 3D/Doom if we count them, et al). I'd be eager to see a game emulate THAT era instead, to be honest.

[Isuka]

And this goes on the way to prove that the arcade mentality, as far as unadulterated fun in games is concerned, is superior to everything else the industry has come up with.
The dude isn't even implying that console/ PC gaming is inherently bad, from the 12 or so games categorized as "Videogame art" on the right column, 8 are console/ PC games!
It's only the arcade philosophy (game consists of a series of stages/ missions/ levels or some crap, you have to beat them in order to progress), the complexity of the games' rule system (ie. mechanics) and its technical prowess what matters here. Stuff that somehow deviate from this natural evolution (like abolishing the stage progression as in Wii Whatever, dumbing down the complexity as in FFTA2, or coming up with an ugly piece of shit like No More Heroes) is worthless.

[CM August]

It always seems that the 8-bit years get the highlight when it comes to "looking back" and "retro", while 16-bit gets overlooked, and I don't understand that when, to be completely frank, for every 8-bit franchise that's out there, there's a 16-bit version that was more engrossing.

I like to think than in another few years it will be the 16-bit era's turn in the limelight, as kids who missed the NES years completely find themselves in the industry and gaming magazines, thus directing public interest. Of course, that's not a sure thing...

[Zeta]

I like to think than in another few years it will be the 16-bit era's turn in the limelight, as kids who missed the NES years completely find themselves in the industry and gaming magazines, thus directing public interest. Of course, that's not a sure thing...

Given that's how the nostalgia cycle works in comic books and other geek mediums, probably. Four more years and the 8-bit retro craze will be dead, replaced by "16-bit gaming was hardcore" fanwank.

[Zeta]

That being said, I don't mind shorter games that much. I mean, most of the games I played on the Genesis were pretty damn short, when push comes to shove. Of course, they were also filled with tons of hidden goodies scattered all over the level to arbitrarily collect, and god damn did I love doing it. Plus, they were simultaneously really hard and really easy (if that even makes any sense). Like, the gameplay was really easy to get into, and you could typically get pretty far without too much hassle - although there were definitely challenges here and there designed to separate the men from the boys. But there was always that one part you'd get to that would cause you issues, until you figured out the working strategy for beating it... I liked things like that. Arcade games, meanwhile, just focus on being as hard as physically possible, most of the time. I can't say as I find that attractive, I find it disgustingly masochistic.

This is pretty much what I think the best design decision is. If the game has an ending, 90% of players should be able to get to the end within 2-6 months at the most, depending on the genre (2 for action games and shooters and 6 for RPGs if you WANT them to be insanely long, etc.) However, there should be a lot of extra challenges, collectibles, and secrets for anyone who wants to stroke their ego. There should be a couple of notable hardspots, but not enough that you want to take the game out and stomp on it. And you know, ideally the game should never stop being FUN. A good game is like a good movie, book, painting, or song: most people should be able to enjoy it on some personal level and come away with a different personal experience. It should be accessible, but not pandering and work on different levels of skill and comprehension.

[Dr. Watson]

Given that's how the nostalgia cycle works in comic books and other geek mediums, probably. Four more years and the 8-bit retro craze will be dead, replaced by "16-bit gaming was hardcore" fanwank.

Im looking forward to when the 90's nostalgia wave kicks in, if only because 80's nostalgia is really starting to wear out its welcome. I say the time has come to forget about the 80's and instead get working on a sequel to Titanic, a summer blockbuster based on Sonic, and a The Backstreet Boys meets The Spice Girls-cartoon series!

[Senbei]

I'm hugely curious to see how nostalgia will affect this new generation of gamers, the ones who are growing up with GTA, Halo and Gears, Imagine, Petz, and the Wii.

[j-man]

Isuka. Subjectivity. Nothing is worthless if worth is invested solely by the individual and directly proportional to enjoyment. I don't give two shits about what Alex Kierkegaard has to say about that, either. Maybe take it down a peg on the absolutism.

Shadow Hog, I love you so much right now. 16-bit for life, yo. And on that note, when is the 80's nostalgia going to give way? Who dictates what we get to be nostalgic about? OMG the 80's is like, soooooo overrated :/

[Delphine]

breakin da rulez, breakin da rulez

[Zeta]

Shadow Hog, I love you so much right now. 16-bit for life, yo. And on that note, when is the 80's nostalgia going to give way? Who dictates what we get to be nostalgic about? OMG the 80's is like, soooooo overrated :/

Generally speaking, when the people who were 10-13 at the time of the phenomenon hit ages 25-33 is when nostalgia kicks in. Thus, 90's nostalgia should just be staring next year and be in full swing by 2015. And then you'll see people fawning over the 16-bit era games.

[gr4yJ4Y]

I don't mind shorter games that much. I mean, most of the games I played on the Genesis were pretty damn short, when push comes to shove. Of course, they were also filled with tons of hidden goodies scattered all over the level to arbitrarily collect, and god damn did I love doing it. Plus, they were simultaneously really hard and really easy (if that even makes any sense). Like, the gameplay was really easy to get into, and you could typically get pretty far without too much hassle - although there were definitely challenges here and there designed to separate the men from the boys. But there was always that one part you'd get to that would cause you issues, until you figured out the working strategy for beating it... I liked things like that.

Although I will say that a lot of games are getting to be a bit too easy these days. Force-feeding hints down the player's throat doesn't help matters, either - remember when a player could learn all the basics of gameplay by just playing the first stage, and not from a dedicated tutorial level? Yeah. I kind of miss that. Not that games don't still do that here and there.

Maybe I just want more games like you got for the Genesis or something, I dunno.

It sounds like you're a supporter of the 1-CC play-style, but don't support the difficulty of most arcade games.

Zeta, I think we're long past the idea of there not being a social hierarchy in the gaming community. You 'll probably think less of someone who plays, enjoys, and is anxious to talk about Imagine Babies, Sonic '06, Superman 64 or whatever widely unaccepted "bad" game. You might not think less of them as a person, but you'll likely think less of them as a gamer.

[Zeta]

Find me a single person who honestly LIKED Superman 64. I think it might be impossible.

And Sonic 06 was a decent game strangled by shitty programming and an obvious lack of bug checks or quality testing.

And Babies? Well, it's just a virtual pet game (albeit a really creepy one) and I'm fine by those. I mean, I still have a few that I play. I don't believe there's a gamer out there who literally plays NOTHING but bad games.

Although I will say that a lot of games are getting to be a bit too easy these days. Force-feeding hints down the player's throat doesn't help matters, either - remember when a player could learn all the basics of gameplay by just playing the first stage, and not from a dedicated tutorial level? Yeah. I kind of miss that. Not that games don't still do that here and there.

I am getting really sick of tutorials or introductions that aren't skippable.

[Shadow Hog]

It sounds like you're a supporter of the 1-CC play-style, but don't support the difficulty of most arcade games.

Basically. I like being able to beat a game in one life, but without it being TOO difficult to get that good. Not too easy, either, although to be fair, I've gotten good enough at gaming in general that that's probably going to be inevitable to an extent.

[Baba O'Riley]

Well, AS lacks a scoring aspect

It doesn't, it's just pointless.

It's sort of like Whose Line Is It Anyways.

But, you know. Made by Treasure. And with aliens.