E3 Sonic Next-Gen trailer on XBOX Live Marketplace

[Delphine]

The boxes annoy the hell out of me, too. All boxes in all games annoy me. DO WE NEED BOXES ANYMORE? DO WE REALLY? We have all this cutting edge graphical technology blah blah blah and they're still throwing boxes at us. How about, gee, boulders? Random debris? NO NO WE MUST HAVE BOXES.

[Professor Machenstein]

I am not willing to dismiss this game just yet. The game is said to be forty percent complete in its development stages. Not even halfway. During the rest of the sixty percent, SONICTEAM should tighten up the controls and reconsider some of their design flaws. Sonic looks rather difficult to control, the floor looks a tad bumpy, I can spot a couple strange design choices too, for instance, Light Dash into a wire, rotate the camera 180°, jump onto another wire behind you, try not to fall, etcetera. I do not doubt SONICTEAM will change any of these things since Sonic moved so floaty in the Tokyo Game Show '05 demonstration, especially in contrast with all this recent footage. Silver's gameplay looks very absurd too, but I doubt that would ever change. Slow puzzle-based stages using telekinetic powers... in a Sonic game? Must be another one of SONICTEAM's bizarre attempts to add "variety" alongside Sonic's simple speed-based gameplay.

I have been seeing some moderately negative impressions regarding this game. I only hope that the millions of E3 attendees who have played the demo are giving SEGA's PR a dose of constructive criticism as to what needs to be done for this game to develop to the amount of perfection needed to truly light up the room, and I hope SEGA's PR takes it at heart as well.

I like you guys. If it were not for all of you, I would have never learned the fundamentals of competent game design. It is what makes The GHZ much more special than any other game related forum I have ever stumbled into. Unlike all other gaming message boards, number scores mean nothing here. You guys closely examine what makes real games truly enjoyable, competently designed and just so fun to play. Each and every single one of you here have the potential to make games so groundbreaking you could revitalize an entire industry, much in the same manner Shigeru Miyamoto did over twenty years ago.

I really just wanted to say that. =P

[Baba O'Reily]

The boxes annoy the hell out of me, too. All boxes in all games annoy me. DO WE NEED BOXES ANYMORE? DO WE REALLY? We have all this cutting edge graphical technology blah blah blah and they're still throwing boxes at us. How about, gee, boulders? Random debris? NO NO WE MUST HAVE BOXES.

Boxes are a signature, time-honored classic from videogames of old.

[Delphine]

Fixed it for you, Prof. The forum is back to the old "I'ma log you out even when you tell me not to log you out!" thing it used to do when Holic first set it up. I HOPE HE FIXES IT WHEN HE GETS BACK BECAUSE IT'S REALLY ANNOYING AND MAYBE HE'LL SEE THIS IF IT'S NOT COMPLETELY BURIED IN TWO WEEKS. *cough*

P.S. FUCK BOXES.
P.P.S. NO THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT.

[FlashTHD]

Linking to what i'm about to link to may be a bad idea knowing what kind of reaction it may get here, but if Sonic Stadium's sources aren't yanking our chain, then Silver...is a time traveller.

Uh...huh.

Also, just look at some of those comments there. "Shadow probably joined the military!" It hurts my brain reading that.

Edit: ...oh no. http://forums.sonic-cult.org/index.php? ... st&p=14334

I was told by a Sega rep that Shadow's missions are mostly driving

[Zeta]

I guess Shadow finally lost his damn airshoes and now he's gotta hitch a ride. Ugh. This game is sounding stupider and stupider.

Linking to what i'm about to link to may be a bad idea knowing what kind of reaction it may get here, but if Sonic Stadium's sources aren't yanking our chain, then Silver...is a time traveller.

Hah. Sonic's Son!

[Psxphile]

The puff of chest hair says different.

[Delphine]

Silver...is a time traveller.

<a href="http://silverdahog.ytmnd.com/">I... I couldn't resist.</a> Forgive me.

[Ngangbius]

Hah. Sonic's Son!

The puff of chest hair says different.

Sonic's and Shadow's ass baby?

[Psxphile]

ass baby

And here I thought it was hair gel giving him that great lift.

[DackAttac]

The only reason I see fit for boxes is there are three kinds of them. Broken from square one, broken with a power-up, unbreakable. They could do that with stage-specific scenery, but it would piss me off, as once I get my power-up, after seeing Stage-2-crates a few levels back, I know I can go back for something. I don't want some crucial thing buried in scenery, especially in a game like this where scenery is EVERYWHERE.

That said, the boxes are undeniably tacky. If someone here can come up with a way of universally identifying scenery as breakable, power-up-breakable, or unbreakable; share. The concept intrigues me, but I have no ideas.

[Senbei]

Concerning bottomless pits: at first I wanted to argue that they aren't a problem if you learn where they are and learn from your mistakes the next time around. That's what save points are for, and this ain't Sonic 2 where if you get a game over you have to start from zone 1.

Then I realized that argument is flawed, but not in a bad way. The reason is: I once played a demo of Sonic Heroes. First time I ever played. I can't remember which levels were available, probably the first for the Sonic and Dark teams. Anyway, I remember both being full of pits and clearing both on my first try. In fact, I got a "B" rank on each.

So. Don't suck at Sonic games and pits aren't a problem. To acheive the level of not sucking at Sonic games, just play a Sonic game with save points a bit.

Of course, the levels obviously weren't SA2's Final Rush. There's no excuse for that, and I agree with everything Esrever posted. But I still liked Final Rush, Final Egg, Sky Rail, and all the other pit-heavy levels once I got used to them, so I don't think that they're worth the fuss they seem to induce.

[IrkenSnax]

I... I couldn't resist. Forgive me.

My god. Silver lives the same town as me...

[big_smile]

If someone here can come up with a way of universally identifying scenery as breakable, power-up-breakable, or unbreakable; share. The concept intrigues me, but I have no ideas.

They don’t need to be identifiable. If a 3D object is placed away from the background, your gamer brain automatically instructs you to destroy it.

Video games aren’t really interactive - they simply offer multiple choices. The trick to good game design is to offer a vast number of optional choices to make the player feel that s/he has taken a unique route through the game as opposed to mindlessly following the designer’s ‘script’. Hence, hiding power-ups in scenery objects is a good thing, as it lowers the presence of the designer’s script.

The old 2D games had many iconic scenery objects such as totem poles and an eastern-style heads. Not only were these more interesting than boxes, they also created a rich narrative atmosphere, by implying that the stage had a ‘history’.

Meanwhile, Twinkle Park had some bottomless areas, but most of the time falling down would just place you on the wider, lower area of the stage. This is closer to how the upper and lower routes worked in the old games.

Twinkle Park had a fatal flaw, as it placed the goal on the upper route. As such, if you fell down, it made more sense to kill yourself (to re-appear at one of the upper check points) as opposed to continuing with stage (especially as Twinkle Park lacked any interesting secrets to justify a second journey through the lower levels).

In the old games, the upper routes were not the only means to reach the goal, so if you fell, you still had a reason to continue playing.

Sonic R has some of the best examples of 3D level design. The stages have clearly identifiable ‘2D style’ pathways that are necessary to keep up the speed, but they also contain plenty of alternative routes. Of course, being a racing game, these routes weren’t very well hidden, and so they weren’t as satisfying to find (The stages were also too short for a proper platform game).

But I still liked Final Rush, Final Egg, Sky Rail, and all the other pit-heavy levels once I got used to them, so I don't think that they're worth the fuss they seem to induce.

It’s true that pits add challenge. However, like Eserver said, exploration is the key source of fun in Sonic games, and the pits prevent this.

Sonic R had a good solution to the challenge/exploration dilemma. The water pits slowed the player down and so had to be avoided to complete the challenge of achieving a fast time. However, as they didn’t kill the player, they didn’t cause frustration or inhibit exploration.

Pumpkin Hill also offered a similar solution with its wind pits. However, it also over-used these as means for creating a smaller level. This isn’t too much of a problem, as it was a hunting stage, but it wouldn’t work for a traditional Sonic level. ^_^

[(...)]

Sonic is not F-zero.

Kinda is. Play a genesis-era game. The entire gameplay is just bombing it in a straight line and jumping on platforms.

Emerald Coast mixed closed in tunnels surrounded by natural barriers with wide, open beaches. It didn't matter that you could run a long way off course to the left or the right... the game provided visual clues to show you where the "path" was without punnishing you for taking two steps off of it.

Bullshit. I've played Emerald Coast on Dreamcast. The level is a narrow path of beach split-off by never-ending water, and the game puts up an invisible wall whenever you run off the narrow path towards the water.

Pits are completely at odds with the Sonic forumla

So I imagined that bit in Green Hill Zone act 2. Or the boss level in the Spring Yard Zone. Or the entire Wing Fortress level, or a fair portion of Flying Battery etc etc etc. Tricky jumps are a cornerstone of platform games. If there's no risk of death, then where's the danger? What's so bad about failing?

I was told by a Sega rep that Shadow's missions are mostly driving

Kind of a given. Shadow's level wouldn't be much of a platform game if he couldn't jump from time to time.

[SegaSonic]

Mostly driving? does that mean he will be the new Tails on a mecha?

[Frieza2000]

Hah. Sonic's Son!

Actually Trunks was Vegeta and Bulma's son, so that would make Silver the offspring of Shadow and Amy, which is looking very likely considering his appearance, voice, angsty personality, and abilities.

Edit: I finally got to watch the complete gameplay videos of Sonic and Silver. My opinion has been upgraded to "Better than Heroes." It still has all of its problems, but it uses them better.

[SegaSonic]

Hah. Sonic's Son!

Actually Trunks was Vegeta and Bulma's son, so that would make Silver the offspring of Shadow and Amy, which is looking very likely considering his appearance, voice, angsty personality, and abilities.

Edit: I finally got to watch the complete gameplay videos of Sonic and Silver. My opinion has been upgraded to "Better than Heroes." It still has all of its problems, but it uses them better.

You guys been watching too much DBZ.

[Zarathustra]

Way too much

[b_boult]

There's one thing a Saiyan always keeps

[Double-S-]

His virginity?

[SegaSonic]

Thats the first thing they lose.

[Yami]

There's one thing a Saiyan always keeps

That crazy hairstyle?

[Senbei]

Pumpkin Hill also offered a similar solution with its wind pits. However, it also over-used these as means for creating a smaller level. This isn’t too much of a problem, as it was a hunting stage, but it wouldn’t work for a traditional Sonic level.

I hate that wind pit in Radical Highway that you fall into if you fall off the bridge. I don't know what bugs me so much about it, but I would have actually preferred instant death. Or, y'know, level design that didn't reek of sloth.

Good point about Sonic R's level design, too. I'm imagining the several different paths in Radical City and Regal Ruin and they truly do impress. Man, I love that game.

[Zarathustra]

There's one thing a Saiyan always keeps

That crazy hairstyle?

Yes (for pure blood, not half-human ones), and the tail thing sans a continuity flaw/ mistake with Vegeta's.

EDIT:

Actually Trunks was Vegeta and Bulma's son, so that would make Silver the offspring of Shadow and Amy, which is looking very likely considering his appearance, voice, angsty personality, and abilities.

Any pics of Silver the Whitey with a psychic Piko-Piko hammer to get some proof? I'd love it. Oh, and Super Sonic's/ Shadow's hairstyle concept is most probably based on Vegeta's (as well as Shadow's ass-temper)