Sonic Unleashed?

[Locit]

Practically anything has got to be better than these trash can badniks who are purpose-built to stand still in the way and die.

See: 50% of the badniks in Sonic Rush Adventure.

[P.P.A.]

I find it just pathetic how the developers still pretend that Weresonic was a secret. I mean everyone already knows about him since the day the game was not even announced yet!
Other than that, nothing really new in that article aside from the shots, thanks for scanning anyway.
Also every time I read shit like "classic" or "return to the roots" I just keep raging again. Does anyone have a cure for this hatred-filled love for a doomed series? Often I just want to block any information about new Sonic games and just live in a happy pretend world where it's 1997 and none of that SA and post-SA stuff has ever happened.

[Radrappy]

You don't like Sonic Adventure?

[Crazy Penguin]

It's kind of funny. Sonic Adventure was a damn good game by 1998/1999 standards, and although it hasn't aged nearly as well as the classic Sonic games have it's still a fun title with a lot of charm. The sequels however, seemed to extrapolate on Sonic Adventure's flaws rather than than its successes.

[Oompa Star]

One of reasons I think Sonic Adventure hasn't aged well is due to the clueless fans that firmly believe that Sonic is about XTREME HIGH SPEEDZ and their distaste with the slower characters and their unusual gameplay styles. I really enjoyed the variety to be honest.

I remember going out of my way to explore some of the nooks and crannies of SA's levels and be rewarded with 1-ups, caches of rings, and in the case of Big, hidden fishing spots. That was definitely one one of the areas the game truly shined.

[Dasher]

Sonic was never about super speed, it was about platforming in action packed levels.

The speed was just a bonus! not the main focus!

[P.P.A.]

I actually did not like Sonic Adventure (DX, I only played that version. If, as I expect, the DC version is way superior and generally incomparably better, ignore all the following). It definitely wasn't bad, but it somehow lacked something. Maybe it was the more realistic setting as opposed to S1/SCD/KC/NiGHTS' awesome surreal landscapes, the loose controls or general lack of polish, I don't know. The music was also rather varying in quality, from such amazing pieces like E-102 Gamma's Theme, Crazy Robo, Egg Carrier, Speed Highway At Dawn, Twinkle Cart, Twinkle Circuit... to such ear-paining lows like Red Mountain Outside or Sky Deck (I have an aversion against most electric guitars (exceptions possible)); though overall the soundtrack was pretty good.
As for the different characters' gameplay I only really liked Sonic, E-102 Gamma and especially Tails. Amy was kind of too slow (though not that bad for what they were), Knuckles' stages I found very confusing (though I loved them in SA2) and Big's levels were quite cool with hidden spots and stuff, but as soon as you threw out your rod you were forced to those annoying fishing mechanics nullifying the stages' beauty (<3 Emerald Coast).
The Adventure Fields were great, I loved them. The overall level design was not bad, pretty good actually. Maybe the reason I still am not happy with them is the nervous controls, complete lack of momentum-based gameplay and overpowered spindash? Or the rather unnecessary and not that well-done segments like the snowboarding, running down that building, Twinkle Cart (which I kind of liked though).

Bah, I just came to realize I don't dislike SA, I much rather... don't like it. Err, if you know what I mean. Maybe it's because it's rather going down the "Let's make an epic adventure!" S2/S3K lane rather than the "Let's make a surreal awesome game with more focus on replay value." SCD/KC/NiGHTS/Sonic R spirit. Speaking of Sonic R, the level designs in Adventure really were a huge step down from R's.


(Please forgive me if this all makes a bit less sense that planned. I'm quite sleepy, it's 11:26PM here and I blasted my brain away with lots of SSBB today, so I'm not really functioning perfectly any more. Good night.)

[Isuka]

such ear-paining lows like (...) Sky Deck

Leave.

[FlashTHD]

complete lack of momentum-based gameplay

Not really, it's just more transparent. It's "there" enough that things still feel natural, once you're down with the controls (it took me little time at all in '99 to adapt, surely you can). Once again, Sonic 06 is what no momentum physics really is. As to the spindash, yeah it's a little cheap, but it worked for this one game so it's forgiveable to me.

Knuckles' stages are better than in SA2 if only because most of them are more open-ended and the radar isn't intentionally gimped.

Maybe it's because it's rather going down the "Let's make an epic adventure!" S2/S3K lane rather than the "Let's make a surreal awesome game with more focus on replay value." SCD/KC/NiGHTS/Sonic R spirit. Speaking of Sonic R, the level designs in Adventure really were a huge step down from R's.

Debating which camp to class SA1's style into, real or classic surreal, is trivial enough (for what it's worth, it's both, and handled the mix gracefully), but i'm not even understanding your point. Try again when you're awake. Otherwise, I would not even dream of stacking up SA1's stages with the crap of Sonic R's courses. They were often confusing/misleading and suffered for being in the wrong (bad) game. Not in the same league as Yasuhara's best, honestly.

Dare I ask, why do you continue to shun S3&K the way you do? You're letting a perfectly awesome game go to waste for no good reason I can find.

[DackAttac]

Bah, I just came to realize I don't dislike SA, I much rather... don't like it. Err, if you know what I mean. Maybe it's because it's rather going down the "Let's make an epic adventure!" S2/S3K lane rather than the "Let's make a surreal awesome game with more focus on replay value." SCD/KC/NiGHTS/Sonic R spirit.

See, I liked how it went surreal when it needed to and the "epic adventure" didn't stand in its way. It may be hard to believe, but there was a point under its development when an exciting plot was something to cheer, before SA2 let its level variety get utterly screwed by the space plot.

Speaking of Sonic R, the level designs in Adventure really were a huge step down from R's.

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy Sonic R, but I am away it's a guilty pleasure. It's like telling the maître d' of a four-star restaurant that you prefer the grease-and-spoon diner down the street. For the love of Christ, they're race tracks. Laps. They are apples and oranges, the character running them does not force similarity. And even then, I wouldn't hoist Sonic R on a throne anytime soon. There were some cool elements, but they were executed even more haphazardly than SA1's.

Also, the game shared the musical apex of the series with S3&K, hands fucking down.

[P.P.A.]

such ear-paining lows like (...) Sky Deck

Leave.

I often hear people say they love that song. I really cannot see why, it just hurts my ears, it's painful noise to me! What is supposed to be good about it?!

Debating which camp to class SA1's style into, real or classic surreal, is trivial enough (for what it's worth, it's both, and handled the mix gracefully), but i'm not even understanding your point. Try again when you're awake. Otherwise, I would not even dream of stacking up SA1's stages with the crap of Sonic R's courses. They were often confusing/misleading and suffered for being in the wrong (bad) game. Not in the same league as Yasuhara's best, honestly.

I loved Sonic R's course designs because they had so many interfering routes and very different ways to get to the goal, making figuring out the fastest route or just exploring the level a real joy. SA's levels also have a few cool hidden rooms and once in a while some different ways to span the same piece of track (though some levels are better at it, some worse. Twinkle Park for example does not fit this description what with all the walking on top of the castle roof). Also a few of SA's stages felt like you're walking on pieces of land suspended in the sky or above some giant void while others were so... isolated, so cold, so dead. Sonic R's levels however were charming, vibrant, generally giving you a warm feeling inside. And it really felt as if you'd explore Sonic's world, they all seemed so... integrated. Not to mention they also were a lot more Sonic-y, and not as rather realistic as SA's stuff.

Dare I ask, why do you continue to shun S3&K the way you do? You're letting a perfectly awesome game go to waste for no good reason I can find.

One thing first, I do objectively regard S3&K as a good game. or rather a great game. It just doesn't appeal to me. The long-ass levels, the boss fights at the end of every act... I always prefer shorter, more compressed games with a lot of replay value (like Sonic CD, whose main appeal is the time attack mode (as proven by the levels seemingly specifically lain out for TAing)) or sidequests, rather than S2/S3&K/SA-style long drawn out adventures.
The art direction in this game I also don't like, even though it's stunningly well executed. The levels are rather inspired by reality and lacking the trippy, surreal style of the S1/SCD/KC branch (expectedly, seeing how the teams were entirely different (S1 aside)). Not /that/ important but just another think to nitpick about.
The other main reason I dislike S3&K however is that it's Sonic 3 & Knuckles. While they're not that different in concept, I absolutely detest all of Sonic 3's Zones bar Hydrocity, whereas I do kind of like most of Sonic & Knuckles' levels. So having to play through all of Sonic 3 before getting to the good part is a real turnoff.

[James McGeachie]

Don't forget that the level design is going to be completely different. That's my biggest worry after the controls.

That isn't my worry for the Wii version, that's the sole reason I'm actually interested in it!

The fact it has completely different level design essentially established it as a different game but with the same general theme. I'd say this might mean it's more platforming oriented than the 360 build too, though with Dimps involved in development there's really nothing to suggest they're not just going to make it in the style of Rush.

[Locit]

The fact it has completely different level design essentially established it as a different game but with the same general theme.

Just because a different level was shown in the shots for the Wii game doesn't mean said level won't be in the PS360 version. In fact, it would be stupid to show directly comparable shots since they would highlight any graphical disparity between the two version even more dramatically. The enemies look pretty much identical, if you need more evidence.

Interestingly, you can see what looks like one of Rings' jump loops in the background of one of the Wii screens.

[Shadow Hog]

SA's levels also have a few cool hidden rooms and once in a while some different ways to span the same piece of track (though some levels are better at it, some worse. Twinkle Park for example does not fit this description what with all the walking on top of the castle roof).

Actually, Twinkle Park had this pretty cool little secret where if you go out the back end of the tunnel you start the second phase of the level in (after the roller coaster cutscene), it's possible (but extremely hard) to land on a small platform floating in the middle of nowhere - from which you can immediately jump into where Big's portion of the level is, thereby cutting out a huge chunk of that segment.

[Frieza2000]

You can also skip straight to the end, but that's not by design.

I've always wanted to see someone pull off the glitch in Amy's Twinkle Park that gets you to the balloon in under 5 seconds. You turn around from where she starts and face the wall and you hammer jump just before she hits the bump where the ground meets the wall. You need the quantum fighter pad to glitch the height. I've made it to the next platform up, but that's still too low to make it to the balloon. The best I could do was jump on top of the door you open with the buttons and jump to the balloon from there, but that takes about 30 seconds.

[FlashTHD]

SA's levels also have a few cool hidden rooms and once in a while some different ways to span the same piece of track (though some levels are better at it, some worse. Twinkle Park for example does not fit this description what with all the walking on top of the castle roof).

Actually, Twinkle Park had this pretty cool little secret where if you go out the back end of the tunnel you start the second phase of the level in (after the roller coaster cutscene), it's possible (but extremely hard) to land on a small platform floating in the middle of nowhere - from which you can immediately jump into where Big's portion of the level is, thereby cutting out a huge chunk of that segment.

...or, just use the dynamite barrels the Kikis are standing on to step up and over the wall. No muss, no fuss.

[Isuka]

I often hear people say they love that song. I really cannot see why, it just hurts my ears, it's painful noise to me! What is supposed to be good about it?!

Not liking it is akin to saying you don't like Chemical Plant's or Flying Battery's or something. It's a really good tune for a fast-paced stage.
And I don't get why people don't like Sonic 3's stages. While probably not as memorable as those of the first two (or three, counting CD) games, they still are a blast to play.

[FlashTHD]

While probably not as memorable as those of the first two (or three, counting CD) games

Leave.

[P.P.A.]

I often hear people say they love that song. I really cannot see why, it just hurts my ears, it's painful noise to me! What is supposed to be good about it?!

Not liking it is akin to saying you don't like Chemical Plant's or Flying Battery's or something. It's a really good tune for a fast-paced stage.
And I don't get why people don't like Sonic 3's stages. While probably not as memorable as those of the first two (or three, counting CD) games, they still are a blast to play.

It's not the melody I dislike, it's the instruments. Either the drums or the shrill guitar or the mix of both, I don't know.
...are there perhaps any good remixes of the song, with different instruments?

As to why I don't like Sonic 3's stages: Angel island is lame and uninteresting in every way (layout, graphics, music); Marble Garden is far too long and tedious, music and graphics are again lame; Hydrocity is awesome in every way possible; Carnival Night is annoying with even more annoying music; Ice Cap has fantastic music but an unremarkable layout though the look of the stage is pro; and finally Launch Base is also very unappealing in terms of everything.

[Oompa Star]

Sonic 3 & Knuckles was the kind of game that would of benefited from not having a time limit for each act.

[James McGeachie]

The fact it has completely different level design essentially established it as a different game but with the same general theme.

Just because a different level was shown in the shots for the Wii game doesn't mean said level won't be in the PS360 version. In fact, it would be stupid to show directly comparable shots since they would highlight any graphical disparity between the two version even more dramatically. The enemies look pretty much identical, if you need more evidence.

Interestingly, you can see what looks like one of Rings' jump loops in the background of one of the Wii screens.

I didn't say different levels, I said different level design. It's already been confirmed the level layouts in the Wii/PS2 version are completely different designs with different gameplay elements.

Regardless of whether or not the visual themes are the same, different stage design entirely pretty much renders it a different game. I don't class Sonic 1 on the Master System/Game Gear and Sonic 1 on the Megadrive as the same game.

[FlashTHD]

It's already been confirmed the level layouts in the Wii/PS2 version are completely different designs with different gameplay elements.

Two or three times i've heard that, and no one's naming any source.

[gr4yJ4Y]

It's already been confirmed the level layouts in the Wii/PS2 version are completely different designs with different gameplay elements.

Two or three times i've heard that, and no one's naming any source.

They've said it in pretty much all the press releases and interviews.
Do you also want some kind of confirmation about the werehog gameplay too?

[Neo]

The interviews with Sega don't count as source? The interview with the studio developing the Wii version doesn't count as source?

[FlashTHD]

*goes back to play preview*

On the other hand, the Wii development team is likewise focused on wringing every drop of power from the Wii architechture. The Wii controls will obviously be different, as well as the design of the stages, which are being designed completely seperately on the Wii

...

Well.

The interview with the studio developing the Wii version

Now really, huh what when?