The GHZ Forum

I was just wondering what you all thought of cel shading. I've been getting a lot of crap for defending it lately and everyone calls it taking the easy way out. So what do you guys think?

Cel-Shading's, like any other graphical format, quality depends on how well a designer uses it. There have been examples of cel-shading done right that the designer actually gives the models a true cel-animated feel(JSR, LoZ:WW) and then there are times where the quality is a bit questionable in that the models are just ugly and non-flowing(Sonic Shuffle, many J-RPGs).

Like 'realistic' graphics, cel-shading can be great, but to use it simply for novelty purposes is a crime (eg Sonic Shuffle).

I actually like cel-shading in almost all games I've seen it used. I don't quite get why most people seem to hate it.

I don't quite get why most people seem to hate it.

Because it's cliché. It's the most stale, overused visual device since Mortal Kombat made rendered sprites popular.

In all honesty, I can think of only two instances I've seen cell-shading used to good effect: Jet Set Radio and Wind Waker.

I would say a hearty "Hear hear!", but... does Viewtiful Joe count?

j-man wrote:I would say a hearty "Hear hear!", but... does Viewtiful Joe count?

Yessir.

What about XIII? I haven't played the game yet, but it looks awesome. And to be honest I didn't think Wind Waker looked that great. I mean it worked a lot better in cel shading than it ever could have regular style, but they could have made a lot of things look better I think.

Normally, I'd prefer some good old awesome 3D graphics, but the cel-shading did work very well in Wind Waker. Unfortuantely, almost all the other cel-shaded games I've played have sucked gameplay-wise and visual-wise.

I would say a hearty "Hear hear!", but... does Viewtiful Joe count?

Honestly, I find the cell-shading the least appealing aspect of Joe. The flat backdrops with the thick, comic-book style lines are excellent, but the foreground characters don't seem to want to mesh with everything else.

Like everyone else said, it depends. Is it done well? I liked it in Dark Cloud 2; I didn't like it in whichever Harvest Moon game it was that used it.

I'm cool with Cel-Shading as long as it's not overused and doesn't mess with something that's already good on it's own. Ex: Sonic Shuffle
Plus it has to be done well and with taste.

*cough-Gundam SD-cough*

The cel shading in V-Joe seemed a bit shoddy in the cutscenes (some of the lines would overlap with some bad jaggies) and wasn't as good as the pioneering JSR of course, but it was a whole lot better than some other games that use it and it fit the style of the game.

"Interesting" trivia: The name Viewtiful Joe seems to be extremely similar to that of the movie Beautiful Joe (Saw it in Film class), and considering Joe is a movie buff I'd say it wasn't a coincidence.

I haven't played Windwalker (I just started playing Majora's Mask after realizing it was on my GameCube sampler disc), but when it was in the preview stage, I remember thinking that the cel-shading was looking like a really lame gimmick. Did it end up being an OK game?

Some people love it, some people hate it. I for one think it was a decent game, worthy of the Zelda name, and I came to appreciate the cel-shaded graphics. In my opinion, it gave the game a really nice surreal, immersive, believably fantastic environment and feel.

I was vehemently against the cell shading at first, but it turns out that was the most successful aspect of the game. Everything else felt a bit uninspired. It wasn't a bad game, but it was kind of like Majora's Mask, you kinda can't help but think that maybe they shouldn't have made it.

I dunno, some last two temples were badass. The only problem with them was having to play that stupid song every time you wanted to switch characters rather than just pressing B or something. The rest of the game though was a little annoying. Like sailing around for like 3 hours trying to find the Triforce pieces. I liked the cel shading, but I think they could have used a little bit more detail.

EDIT: Hehe, 69 posts.

Light Speed wrote:EDIT: Hehe, 69 posts.

Are you twelve, by any chance? ^_~

Hey, I thought 69 posts was funny...

Clearly depends. Cel-shaded, good ones are ones like Zelda: WW (and DAMN, those are GOOD), Klonoa 2, etc. There have been horrible ones I couldn't stand like the ones from DBZ: Budikai 2(They look so scratchy), so it depends on how well a developer actually does it.
~Neo

What I don't understand is why we haven't seen more VARIATIONS on cell shading techniques.

I mean, OK, so Jet Set showed us that we can make things have solid colour block shading and black outlines. I expected the visual floodgates to swing wide open after that, but no... everything is either regular textures or the standard cell shading. Which is sad, because the fact that we can DO cellshading means that we can do all kinds of crazy crap with the graphics!

Wind Waker and Killer 7 immediately spring to mind as games that have created very distinctive new looks that are neither the traditional textured look or the cliched version of cell shading, but why haven't we gone further? Where is my game that looks like a water colour painting? Where is my game that looks like a pen and ink drawing? Where is my game that looks like construction paper art? Get on it, people!

Where is my game that looks like a pen and ink drawing?

That would be Okami.

Harvest Moon: Save the Homeland was the one with cel shading. There was barely any in it, just kind of an outline on the characters. It was a fun game though. If the game has a reason to be cel shaded, I don't have a problem with it. I want to see someone do something with cel shading where it effects the gameplay, kind of like how the shadows are in Splinter Cell.

And Majora's Mask was awesome. The only Zelda game I thought was better was Link's Awakening.

Esrever wrote:
Wind Waker and Killer 7 immediately spring to mind as games that have created very distinctive new looks that are neither the traditional textured look or the cliched version of cell shading, but why haven't we gone further? Where is my game that looks like a water colour painting? Where is my game that looks like a pen and ink drawing? Where is my game that looks like construction paper art? Get on it, people!

Heh, I always thought that an Impressionist style looking game would look sweet. And when Sammy announced that they were making a Seven Samurai game (I did not yet know that they were going to set it in the future and ruin it), I got pictures in my head of a game done completely in black and white... And no, don't be a douche bag and say "Then go play some old Gameboy games"...

Oh well. Cel-shading is just another aspect of the game industry that isn't used to its fullest because well... Game designers/ artists/directors or whatever just don't seem to be as imaginative as they used to.

An impressionist style game would be awesome, but unfortunately you'd get all the plebes going, "Duuuuh, I dun get it, where's my CG?" so it won't happen. On another note, a black and white noir-style game would completely rock my world.