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Robots

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:26 pm
by Delphine
Yeah, I'm all about the news lately.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/16/techn ... ts.html">A New Model Army Soldier Rolls Closer to Battle</a>

It's a NYTimes article. You need a login, which you can get from <a href="http://www.bugmenot.com">Bugmenot</a>. For the lazy among us, I quoted the article text here.
A New Model Army Soldier Rolls Closer to Battle
By TIM WEINER

Published: February 16, 2005



The American military is working on a new generation of soldiers, far different from the army it has.

"They don't get hungry," said Gordon Johnson of the Joint Forces Command at the Pentagon. "They're not afraid. They don't forget their orders. They don't care if the guy next to them has just been shot. Will they do a better job than humans? Yes."

The robot soldier is coming.

The Pentagon predicts that robots will be a major fighting force in the American military in less than a decade, hunting and killing enemies in combat. Robots are a crucial part of the Army's effort to rebuild itself as a 21st-century fighting force, and a $127 billion project called Future Combat Systems is the biggest military contract in American history.

The military plans to invest tens of billions of dollars in automated armed forces. The costs of that transformation will help drive the Defense Department's budget up almost 20 percent, from a requested $419.3 billion for next year to $502.3 billion in 2010, excluding the costs of war. The annual costs of buying new weapons is scheduled to rise 52 percent, from $78 billion to $118.6 billion.

Military planners say robot soldiers will think, see and react increasingly like humans. In the beginning, they will be remote-controlled, looking and acting like lethal toy trucks. As the technology develops, they may take many shapes. And as their intelligence grows, so will their autonomy.

The robot soldier has been a dream at the Pentagon for 30 years. And some involved in the work say it may take at least 30 more years to realize in full. Well before then, they say, the military will have to answer tough questions if it intends to trust robots with the responsibility of distinguishing friend from foe, combatant from bystander.

Even the strongest advocates of automatons say war will always be a human endeavor, with death and disaster. And supporters like Robert Finkelstein, president of Robotic Technology in Potomac, Md., are telling the Pentagon it could take until 2035 to develop a robot that looks, thinks and fights like a soldier. The Pentagon's "goal is there," he said, "but the path is not totally clear."

Robots in battle, as envisioned by their builders, may look and move like humans or hummingbirds, tractors or tanks, cockroaches or crickets. With the development of nanotechnology - the science of very small structures - they may become swarms of "smart dust." The Pentagon intends for robots to haul munitions, gather intelligence, search buildings or blow them up.

All these are in the works, but not yet in battle. Already, however, several hundred robots are digging up roadside bombs in Iraq, scouring caves in Afghanistan and serving as armed sentries at weapons depots.

By April, an armed version of the bomb-disposal robot will be in Baghdad, capable of firing 1,000 rounds a minute. Though controlled by a soldier with a laptop, the robot will be the first thinking machine of its kind to take up a front-line infantry position, ready to kill enemies.

"The real world is not Hollywood," said Rodney A. Brooks, director of the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory at M.I.T. and a co-founder of the iRobot Corporation. "Right now we have the first few robots that are actually useful to the military."

Despite the obstacles, Congress ordered in 2000 that a third of the ground vehicles and a third of deep-strike aircraft in the military must become robotic within a decade. If that mandate is to be met, the United States will spend many billions of dollars on military robots by 2010.

As the first lethal robots head for Iraq, the role of the robot soldier as a killing machine has barely been debated. The history of warfare suggests that every new technological leap - the longbow, the tank, the atomic bomb - outraces the strategy and doctrine to control it.

"The lawyers tell me there are no prohibitions against robots making life-or-death decisions," said Mr. Johnson, who leads robotics efforts at the Joint Forces Command research center in Suffolk, Va. "I have been asked what happens if the robot destroys a school bus rather than a tank parked nearby. We will not entrust a robot with that decision until we are confident they can make it."

Trusting robots with potentially lethal decision-making may require a leap of faith in technology not everyone is ready to make. Bill Joy, a co-founder of Sun Microsystems, has worried aloud that 21st-century robotics and nanotechnology may become "so powerful that they can spawn whole new classes of accidents and abuses."
Yeah, that's right. <i>Robots. <b>Army robots.</b></i> Has science fiction taught us nothing?! This never ends well!

In all seriousness, this is pretty fucking cool. we may see humanoid, intelligent robots in our lifetime. Also in seriousness, <i>have we learned nothing from science fiction?!</i>

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:34 pm
by Light Speed
We won't make the same mistakes that we did in science fiction. Just like everyone that attacked Russia after the first country didn't get fucked by the winter.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:07 pm
by chriscaffee
Old.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:08 pm
by Neo Yi
Army Robots? Damn...
~neo

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:16 pm
by Double-S-
They're actually going to give the things AI and let them make decisions independently?

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:18 pm
by Delphine
Eventually, it looks like. When they have the technology.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:20 pm
by Knuckles Dawson
Yeah, really. Hasn't Science fiction taught anything? Even "the three laws", can't necessarily protect us.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:35 pm
by chriscaffee
I don't see the concern. What is the difference between a human terrorist inside of a tank and a machine terrorist that is a tank? What's the difference between an unstable human with nukes and an unstable machine controlling nukes? If we are talking about a true AI then it's really just the body that the intelligence governs that is different.

And again all that stuff is mostly a dream right now. The main focus of military robotics are going to be mules and unmanned vehicles. It's going to be a long time before they can replace the soldier going door to door and even longer to replace the undercover special forces operative.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:47 pm
by Delphine
Realistically, yes. Unrealisticly, <i>robot people are going to take over the world!!</i>

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:53 pm
by Knuckles Dawson
Its teh 2nd renosance!!!!!!!!!!1?/

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:01 pm
by chriscaffee
Yeah, the Animatrix was gay.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:12 pm
by Knuckles Dawson
I know, but seeing that guy get his skull squished, then ripped in half was cool. In HD.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:23 pm
by Grant
Delphine wrote:Eventually, it looks like. When they have the technology.
This really reminds me of Tenacious D for some reason.


"Do you think some people - do you think that there's some people that are actually robots, living among us.. but we can't tell?"
Image


"No. We don't have the technology yet."
Image

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:40 pm
by Delphine
Do you believe in god?

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:44 pm
by Grant
I beeleeve in gawd.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:46 pm
by Delphine

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:50 pm
by Grant
I beeleeeve in gawd.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:06 pm
by Zeta
Robert Finkelstein
Wait, the mad scientist from the Nightmare before Christmas?
Yeah, the Animatrix was gay.
It was better than the shitty sequels. Although the character of Kid is pretty homosexual, yeah. He's one step away from gobbling Neo's cock.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:07 pm
by chriscaffee
Actually the sequals were better. The Animatrix was just utter shit. The sequals, if you skipped to the action parts, were good.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:10 pm
by Grant
I genuinely liked Reloaded a lot. Revolutions, on the other hand, bored me to tears.

As far as the Animatrix, I only watched the freebies that they put on the internet, but I did enjoy the two part history of the war thing. That was pretty neat.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:12 pm
by Knuckles Dawson
Yeah, which is another way of saying: "Yeah, the technology and graphics were better in the sequal"

Note I used your way of spelling sequel for it to be attributed to saying what you said, only more accurately.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:16 pm
by Zeta
Actually the sequals were better. The Animatrix was just utter shit. The sequals, if you skipped to the action parts, were good.
Jesus fuck. There wasn't even enough action. How can you enjoy Neo's fight scenes when he talks about faux shitty philosphy for the half of the film in an effort by the Wachowskis to make themselves look all smart and deep to film critics?

Haunted House, on the other hand - that was a fucking work of art.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:21 pm
by chriscaffee
I said skip. That means you don't listen to it. And the philosophy stuff isn't insincere, just basic.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:25 pm
by Grant
For me, the action scenes were actually pretty boring in Reloaded (they were pointless; we know Neo can't die) - it was the scene with the KFC Guy that saved the movie for me. It put a pretty unique twist on the original film, like the best sequels do, and set itself up for what should've been a clever third film. Unfortunately, Revolutions was just a basic big mech battle for a city we don't care about fought by people we don't care about.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:31 pm
by Dache
The Animatrix gave us the Beyond short, which is better than all of the three films combined.