The GHZ Forum

Has anyone picked up Sly Cooper 2, the new Paper Mario, or Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne? (I believe this is the first time Atlus has brought over one of those under the actual series title, so kudos to them for that.) I'm curious to hear some opinions on any of the above. (First-hand opinions, not what you read in a magazine.)

I haven't picked up Paper Mario 2 myself yet, but I went to a friend's who has it and got in some time with it there. As far as the first hour goes, it's a little slow-paced, but it's traditional Mario RPG fare - Cute graphics, simple and intuitive gameplay, engaging characters and story. It looks very similar to Paper Mario (locations and all), but that's just the very beginning of the game. Maybe it gets a lot better and becomes a great stand-out game for the series, or maybe it's just another entry. I don't know that yet.

I need to pick up Sly Cooper 2 as well.

I actually never played the original Paper Mario, is that as good I hear?

Eh. It was a good RPG. I personally don't think it was revolutionary or earth-shattering in any way. It was just a solid, good RPG; something that the N64 was sorely lacking, which might be why it's praised so highly.

Well, both Paper Mario games attained EGM Game of the Month status. That has to attest to something, methinks.

You fail, WhoopA.

WhoopA wrote:Well, both Paper Mario games attained EGM Game of the Month status. That has to attest to something, methinks.

Yeah, that EGM likes Mario.

If the only thing that it attests to is that they both recieved Game of the Month, so be it.

I heard Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne was hard. That's about all I got to say...

I rented Paper Mario over the weekend. It is fun, but not that fun. It will keep me entertained for a couple of days until I beat it. Please note that I didn't actually pay for it, as a good friend recently came into the possesion of many, many free rental scratch off cards.

I ended up going for Sly, partly because it's the only one of the three that seems to have consistently good reviews, but mostly because it was ten bucks cheaper than the other two. I've only made it through the first area so far, but it looks like Sly's still got the goods.

The structure is pretty unique... it's not so much of a straightforward platformer anymore. It's integrated some elements from Metal Gear and, goddammit, Grand Theft Auto. You don't really have "stages" now, you have this big central hub area in which you roam around and find missions. To be perfectly honest, I've never been a huge fan of the "mission" structure, and I don't think Sly 2 is going to change my mind, but it's well integrated. A part of me kind of misses the long, platformer levels, but this method allows for much more variety and an altogether more immersive experience.

Some missions you play as Bentley and Murray, and while I was kind of concerned about this based on the demo, especially considering that the "mini-game" stages from the first were really the weakest point in that game, so far it's working out pretty well. Bentley and Murray never really overshadow Sly, and the way they play is similar enough so that it doesn't disrupt the flow or balance. In some missions you even play as all three characters, and you have some really interesting interaction going on. For example, there's this tower with an entrance high up that needs to be blown off. To do this, you have to have Bentley jump into Murray's arms, then you control Murray and have him toss Bentley up to the platform, then you control Bentley again and plant a bomb to blast the door open.

Sly himself has got some new sneaky maneuvers, most notably pickpocketing and some Tenchu-esque stealth kills (minus the gore). It's still got the same, fantastic Sly feel, though. The brilliant thing about Sly is that it plays off the most primal platformer instinct: when you look around an area and go "Hey, I bet I can get over there." Just moving around as Sly is a blast, completely independent of the clever level design.

The dialogue is occasionally pretty clever. The exchange that takes place when Sly confronts Dimitri for the first time is one of the funniest dialogues in game history. I guess in this hobby you play so much stuff that's been translated from Japanese and really, regardless of how good a translation is, there are subtleties that are hopelessly lost. I guess I'm just happy to be in on the in-jokes for a change...

While I can't shake off my longing for a traditional platformer with long, beefy stages, so far, I am plenty pleased with Sucker Punch's third project. I wonder if I can dare to hope that the United States finally has a development house it can be proud of? (EA and Rockstar be damned.) I'll post some more detailed impressions as I venture deeper in.

Green Gibbon! wrote: I wonder if I can dare to hope that the United States finally has a development house it can be proud of? (EA and Rockstar be damned.)

Rockstar's a British company, and everything bar Red Dead Revolver, which was just a Capcom abortion anyway, was made here.

Not that they're really much good anymore, but.

So no one here played that San Andreas game yet?

Rockstar's British? Really?

Yeah, that's news to me as well.

They're Scottish, to be precise. The (brilliant) cult hit that was Grand Theft Auto was made by about six people, and then they got eaten by Rockstar and turned into a 9000-person development team pumping out 3D gangster-a-thons. It's dated, but the original game had a unique, cheerily anarchic feel to it that just ain't there in the more recent titles.

And, Gibbon, Valve Software (the Half-Life guys) are one of the finest development teams in the world. I know you don't like first-person shooters, but would you care to check out HL2? I mean, I don't like RPGs but I dug Panzer Dragoon Saga, right?

How long HAVE they worked on HL2?

Valve "one of the finest development teams in the world"? Yeah, maybe when they're not delaying their projects into the next eternity.

Honestly, I like Half-Life a lot, and I'm looking forward to Half-Life 2 as much as the next person, but I don't know if I would consider them that much greater than other studios. Like, Epic Games has become pretty impressive lately. Unreal Tournament 2004 is the best shooter in ages.

Scotland is part of Great Britain, along with Wales. You FOOL, Popcorn.

And, Gibbon, Valve Software (the Half-Life guys) are one of the finest development teams in the world.

Well, referring specifically to console developers. As far as the PC market goes, which, granted, is still mostly outside my realm of interest, I'd venture to say that the grand majority of decent developers are American.

Scotland is part of Great Britain, along with Wales. You FOOL, Popcorn.

What? I said 'they're Scottish, to be precise'.

Well, referring specifically to console developers. As far as the PC market goes, which, granted, is still mostly outside my realm of interest, I'd venture to say that the grand majority of decent developers are American.

I've no idea why you'd single out console developers specifically (apart from the fact that, uh, Half-Life 1 was the last really exciting PC game), but in that case, I'd wager that Bungie are pretty good. Halo's overrated, but that don't stop it being fun. You get to shoot stuff with guns!

Valve "one of the finest development teams in the world"? Yeah, maybe when they're not delaying their projects into the next eternity.

What have delays got to do with anything?

Honestly, I like Half-Life a lot, and I'm looking forward to Half-Life 2 as much as the next person, but I don't know if I would consider them that much greater than other studios. Like, Epic Games has become pretty impressive lately. Unreal Tournament 2004 is the best shooter in ages.

The UT series is good fun but it hardly blew me (or many other people) away like the original Half-Life did (and did like no game since has). I haven't played the sequel yet, but I'm expecting even better things.

I don't see the big deal about the original Half-Life. It was good, great even, but I wouldn't place it anywhere on my list of "NT's Top 10 (or maybe even 50) Greatest Games Of His Own Personal Opinion". Or, uh... I didn't consider it as super amazing as most other people.

When HL1 first came out, it was a revelation. Not just in the (otherwise mostly drab) FPS genre, but in games design full-stop... it had a level of seamless immersion that I believe was years ahead of its time, and I wish more games would copy its take on the relationship between the player and linear narrative. Replaying it, HL seems like pretty standard fare-- what were once incredibly believable enivronments now seem like pretty sparse, abstract warehouse -- but it's still highly playable.

Have you considered the possibility that you may be terminally gay in the cock?

YOU'RE the one that doesn't like RPGs.