The GHZ Forum

http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/21/tekken-devs-make-ssb/

Am I the only one who is kinda..worried by this? I'm not that big a Tekken fan, and Soul Calibur hasn't been good in a long time. I don't know if I trust these people to make the next Smash Bros. games.

Was it not Sakurai (or some other higher-up) that said no two Smash Bros. would be developed simultaneously? That concerns me more than a new staff, which at least holds the possibility of fresh, welcome ideas.

It's a bit of a surprise but I don't see much point in worrying at the moment. No real details about the game are known whatsoever at present plus it seems Sakurai is still involved as well. I do wonder what will happen with third party characters this time though. If Namco are working on the game then presumably at least 1 of their characters will be in(with Pacman being the most obvious candidate) unless they go back to a Nintendo only roster again.

If Mr. Driller is in I will, like, only play as him. That seems pretty unlikely, though.

It's hard to imagine this decision working out well. I am starting to get the impression that Nintendo is struggling right now.

I love fighting games but only the ones that I take seriously. This usually means I'm indifferent to this series. Unless the next gaming outsourcing means that Luke from Tales of the Abyss is a guest character, then I will buy it out of pure fan boy.

My first hope was that it had gone to the Tales team, because the fighting engine in Abyss got a lot of things right and was similar to the one in Smash Bros. in many ways. Of course, I haven't played a Tales game since Abyss, so maybe the series is now in the hands of idiots (watching YouTube videos of recent titles has not been encouraging).

But no, it's the Tekken team, which brings back bad memories of the Other M announcement. I'm very dubious that this team understands the philosophy behind the game.

In fact, if you're not going to develop Smash Bros. in house, then what's even the point? Why not start an all-new IP? It sounds like a cynical move from a company in crisis.

I will be very surprised if this works out. I hope this is not an omen for the entire WiiU and 3DS lineup. The only glimmer of hope is that Sakurai is still in charge and he seems enthusiastic about it. Maybe I'm wrong and they're about to take the series in a bold new direction, but I'm not holding my breath.

The Smash Bros. games are always going to be made outside Nintendo, because they're directed by an outside director. Because of the weird situation they've got with him, where they've allowed him to go quasi-independent but still make games for them, there's no internal "Smash Bros" team anywhere. Sakurai has his core team at Sora, but it's way too small to handle a massive project like Smash Bros. on it's own. They have to bring in other developers, just like how Brawl used staff from Game Arts and Monolith Soft.

I think people assume these outside developers have way more influence on the finished project than they actually do. Other M is a perfect example. I mean, I hate that game, but everything about it that was horrible -- the story, the stupid sideways remote control scheme, the missile pointing -- all came from the director. The staff at Team Ninja, Nintendo and elsewhere just carried it out.

Japanese game development is very rigid with strong authority from the top and almost no deviation from the initial design docs. I am sure that Sakurai and his team at Sora will be responsible for deciding 99% of how the game looks and plays, even though it will be Namco providing the hundreds of developers needed to build it all. Whether or not that will result in a good game, well... we'll see! I mean, Sakurai and his team are also presumably responsible for all the changes in Brawl that higher-level players didn't like. (Not that I've ever been good enough at Smash Bros. to be affected by those changes personally.)

Esrever wrote:I think people assume these outside developers have way more influence on the finished project than they actually do.

I hope you're right! Although I would agree that a lot of the problems in Brawl probably came from Sakurai himself. I just trust him more than I do the Tekken team. I would be much more comfortable with a team hand-picked by Nintendo.

(Also, I don't think it was just high level stuff that went wrong in Brawl. A lot of the additions were implemented thoughtlessly - the new Adventure mode, stickers, and Smash Balls to name a few - and I feel like the roster has gotten way out of control already.)

I dunno, man, surely Team Ninja was chosen because that's the type of meretricious fare Sakamoto wanted for his game. If code-crunching is all that's required, then they could've gone to just about anyone. (unless the Team Ninja label was ultimately for marketing purposes to attract the Ninja Gaiden-playing market) And I'm not optimistic enough to believe that just 'cause a director/producer (especially Japanese) was given credit for an idea that they actually did come up with it.

P.S. I don't think the Yellow Alloys being Geolytean homages was lost on anyone. I wonder what sort of Meteos reference/representation Sakurai will sneak in seeing as its a Bandai property, and one of his own games for which he evidentally holds affection.

I think you can definitely say the game was a product of both influences... just that Team Ninja's influence was kept pretty thoroughly in check. Like, I know it was Team Ninja that pushed to make the gameplay 3D instead of 2D... but considering that, I imagine they also would have preferred to use the flippin' nunchuk. I'm sure you're right that Nintendo brought them in because they knew they were good at making fast-paced action games, but at the same time, you can tell they put them into some pretty serious confines and didn't let them have a lot of influence on the big picture.

Crisis, I do think all those haphazard side-additions you're talking about are DEFINITELY a result of the game being developed outside. I'm sure they were chosen/conceptualized initially by Sakurai and the core team, but I imagine each element was then handed off to a different part of the massive hodge-podge team of different sub-studios that were pulled in to make that game.

^ I remember reading that Sakamoto was the one who insisted that they only use the Wii Remote, so you're probably not too far off.

Maybe they're aiming for a more balanced fighting game and feel that the Tekken team has a history with that (I've never been into Tekken, so I wouldn't know).

Between Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Tekken X Street Fighter, and now this it sure sounds like they have their hands full.

Esrever wrote:I think you can definitely say the game was a product of both influences... just that Team Ninja's influence was kept pretty thoroughly in check. Like, I know it was Team Ninja that pushed to make the gameplay 3D instead of 2D... but considering that, I imagine they also would have preferred to use the flippin' nunchuk. I'm sure you're right that Nintendo brought them in because they knew they were good at making fast-paced action games, but at the same time, you can tell they put them into some pretty serious confines and didn't let them have a lot of influence on the big picture.

Of course it all comes down to what he wanted (and Nintendo allowed) in the end, whether he came up with it or not. Young Samus looks like a DOA girl (minus large, sentient boobs) because that's TN's style. Sakamoto had the final word, yes, but apparently that's what he wanted/approved. Yes he derserves the brunt of the criticism for the end product; TN can't be blamed for being TN. My point being: it's not unreasonable to look at the outsider developer of choice as being indicative of what the director wants for his project.

Sakurai apparently has this to say about the Smash Bros. roster: "In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible. I think a change of direction may be what's needed."

Personally I'd be happy with a subset of the Brawl characters and heavy refinement of the gameplay, since there's still room to iterate on the previous titles. But I'm not opposed to more radical changes, either.