The GHZ Forum

I don't normally post here, but I lurk a lot. I need some advice on my Sonic habit. Recently I've graduated college and I've been trying to keep up with all the Sonic games I've missed up to this point, as well as a few Sonic Team games here and there. I'm thinking of recent events and terrible scores within the last 10 years of Sega and seeing this horrible new Nights into Dreams, I think I'm going to finally get rid of a lot of Sonic Team games I've been accumulating as I find myself more and more apathetic towards them. It seems like every time I pick up a Sonic game I've missed now I hate it and find it intensely tedious. If I replay the first few Sonic games of his golden era, they are not tedious... so it must not be me, but liking Sonic has become an expensive and disappointing habit I've carried over from my childhood hero.

I'm just wanting to hear the opinions of you guys on which games I should keep based on what I like and what you think. I'm going to cut the fat out of my Sonic habit and go on the theories why some of the early games are good and why some are pisspoor.

So here's my collection so far, some of these I haven't played though:
Sonic Mega Collection Plus (completed)
Sonic Gems (completed)
Knuckles Chaotix (haven't played yet)
Sonic 3D Blast on Saturn (completed)
Sonic Jam (completed or watched everything)
Sonic Adventure DX (completed)
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle (completed)
Sonic Heroes (Tried to play)
Sonic Pocket Adventure (completed)
Sonic Advance 1,2 (completed)
Sonic Advance 3 (tried to play)
Sonic Rush (haven't played yet)
Sonic Battle (haven't played yet)
Billy Hatcher (haven't played yet)
Chu Chu Rocket (completed)
Feel the magic (played somewhat)
Nights (completed)
Burning Rangers (haven't played yet)
Astro Boy (haven't played yet)

Okay so I hope I haven't lost you here, but out of all of those games I really feel like I should only keep the Sonic Mega Collection, Sonic Gems, Sonic 3D Blast, and maybe Knuckles Chaotix.

I keep playing all these Sonic Team games out of compulsion but it's been a long time since I've had pure unadulterated fun with a Sonic Team game. My favorite games of course are Sonic 1,2,3 and Knuckles, and my theory is because of Hirokazu Yasuhara who was the original designer, who is long since gone. I also enjoy Sonic 3d Blast even though I know a lot of people hate it, in which Hirokazu Yasuhara was also involved. I don't mind having Sonic Spinball and Comix Zone around on my Mega Collection either, because those are a few of my favorite Sega America games.

Sonic CD is fun I guess but I mostly only like it because of the movies, the bosses, music, and the graphics. Other than that I don't think Naoto Ohshima is suited for design.I may be in the minority but I think Sonic CD has terrible and confusing level design. There's really no need to ever visit the future, and actually there's no need to ever go to the past if you collect all the time stones. So why make all these versions of the levels? A lot of parts feel broken as well with level design that just sort of goes all over the place and doesn't really lead you anywhere, unlike Sonic 3.

And I know I will be hated for saying this but I find Nights to be somewhat tedious, although fun once you get the hang of it. It starts to show exactly how Sonic Team's 3d game philosophy will play out with grading me on every level and having somewhat overly complicated controls, rules, and scoring schemes for how simple the game really is. I think a lot of this lies in the design direction of Takashi Iizuka.

And Iizuka games are what I really don't like. It seems he's the master of creating tedious and clunky games. I just got fed up with Sonic Heroes heroes after falling into a pit over and over. The bosses really sucked too. I liked Sonic Adventure when I had it for my Dreamcast long ago, but it doesn't age that well and there are far better 3d platforms. Sonic Adventure might be the only 3D Sonic game I really enjoy but I'm not all that attached to it what with the terrible music, plot, and voice acting. I gritted my teeth through getting every achievement in Sonic Adventure 2 and it was okay but I don't want to do an exercise in tedium like that in a video game ever again. There's just no time for silly stuff like that for me in my life anymore. Why is Sonic a huge collectathon and ranking thing these days? I was happy just getting chaos emeralds. I don't even want to worry about Billy Hatcher at this point.

The Dimps games are just bland. I don't know why, but like the level design is boring, the special stages are boring, and possibly only the bosses are good. I really don't care to play as Amy in a 2D game either.

As for Yuji Naka, I somehow don't think he had much to do with the Sonic series as it's made out to be. The hands on sort of stuff. Chu Chu rocket was fun for how short it lasted, but it's also not a game I'm attached to.

I have no interest in playing anything past Sonic Heroes, and I really don't have the time or money to dedicate to games that are have become universally hated and criticized.

I realize games like Burning Rangers, Astro Boy, and Space Channel 5 are supposed to be fun, but aren't they designed by different teams? Should I tackle these games?

Also I liked how funny Feel the Magic was on how far I got, but again this seems to be a different designer and not like most Sonic Team games. Checking Knuckles Chaotix on Mobygames, I see everyone who designed and directed it is not really a Sonic regular. I'd still be willing to try those with encouragement.

Help me pick and choose guys, what games would you ditch? Have any of you ditched the hedgehog? What did you guys finally decide was important?

Sonic Mega Collection Plus-Ok
Sonic Gems-- kinda ok
Knuckles- cant say a thing or they kill me
Sonic 3D Blast on Saturn-waste of time
Sonic Jam- ok
Sonic Adventure DX- Big Ok
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle-kinda ok
Sonic Heroes---skip it
Sonic Pocket Adventure-Sonic for small kids
Sonic Advance 1,2-skip
Sonic Advance 3-skip
Sonic Rush- kinda ok, Sonic Rush Adventure is better
Sonic Battle-skip
Billy Hatcher-try it if you like playing buggy games
Chu Chu Rocket--- A must
Feel the magic---No idea
Nights----A must
Burning Rangers (haven't played yet)-A Must
Astro Boy----Witch version? Because one was bad and the other good...I think the good one was the portable one...


Get Sonic Rush Adventure and Sonic and the secret rings, if you only have money for one then get Sonic Rush Adventure

Syntheticgerbil... why is it that I can never get out with cool usernames like that?

You look to have made up your mind quite a bit, there isn't much anyone can tell you besides getting the fuck out for disliking NiGHTS and Burning Rangers.
Other than that, I SHOCKINGLY agree with Arcade in most points. I've seen much criticism targeted at the PS2 Astro Boy.

But seriously, NiGHTS without the scoring and ranking... what in Heaven's name are you thinking?!

Hah, it's not that I don't like NiGHTS, it was pretty fun, I just don't put it on a pedestal I guess, and when I play it retrospectively it just makes me think how Iizuka seems to have poisoned everything, not that at that point it was hard to get good grades and points in a Sonic Team game, but it's like every game after with rankings they get more and more tedious to achieve. I didn't play Burning Rangers but I have a copy on Saturn, I was just wondering if I should give it a chance before I say goodbye, but I guess that answers my question that I should.

The Astro Boy I have is the PS2 one by Sonic Team, the other one on GBA is made by Treasure.

I'm somehow not looking forward to Rush even though I've heard good things just because Dimps has let me down so far.

Any opinions on Chaotix anyone? it's like the only other 32x game I have.

Wait, you said you didn't like CD's multiple, broken Time Zones and confusing stage design?

Oh dear, you'll totally LUUUV Chaotix. Trust me!

To it's credit, Chaotix is the only game remotely worth playing on the 32x.

Haha, I guess that's my answer on Chaotix then.

Really, quit playing games on brand recognition. The majority of sonic games are terrible and not really worth the money. If you really must play them, just emulate them.

Yeah I usually don't play on brand recognition, even in cases like Mario, whose games are usually designed very well. I try to go by the designer, but I guess I get confused on who's responsible for a good Sonic game. Hence why I'm trying to kill my Sonic nostalgia and get rid of all these games I don't think I really like.

I would recommend keeping Sonic Jam, for one. While it contains fewer titles than Mega Collection, the extras are far superior and there is far more focus on the 'older' Sonic image. Burning Rangers is also worth a shot prior to disposal - it hasn't aged quite as well as it could've, but it's still a fairly solid game. Space Channel 5 is an interesting title and may or may not appeal to you - personally, I didn't enjoy it very much, but you may.

Other than that, though, I would recommend focusing primarily on the titles you're interested in - there's no reason to keep video games you dislike unless you're some sort of collector.

Yeah I'm definitely keeping Sonic Jam because all the extra weird movies, commercials, and music are pretty awesome, and it all centers around the era I enjoy.

Alright, I'm going to give Burning Rangers a try. Thanks guys.

Sonic Mega Collection Plus - Keep, handy for travel
Sonic Gems Collection - Ehh...only if you were really satisfied or have the japanese version. It's got possibly the worst port of Sonic CD
Knuckles Chaotix - This game definitely has far worse level design woes than CD. Yet, it's kind of fun in some weird way after playing it for a while, and you'd be missing out on the slickest Special Stages in the series. Get a ROM and give it a while, I guess.
Sonic 3D Blast on Saturn - A keeper for sure
Sonic Jam - Ditto
Sonic Adventure DX - Now i'm not so sure which version you'd do better to keep, but I think something's seriously fucked upstairs for you to be as apathetic as you are with SA1. I can't tell you much beyond that without you giving more detail on what was so painful about the game.
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle -

It starts to show exactly how Sonic Team's 3d game philosophy will play out with grading me on every level ... I gritted my teeth through getting every achievement in Sonic Adventure 2 and it was okay but I don't want to do an exercise in tedium like that in a video game ever again. There's just no time for silly stuff like that for me in my life anymore. Why is Sonic a huge collectathon and ranking thing these days? I was happy just getting chaos emeralds.

Then how in the hell haven't you managed to ask yourself why you bothered? This is coming from someone who's extremely highly skilled at getting good ranks at these games, but I can't stand it when folks grumble like the rankings drive the entire game. They don't. I like SA2, and I liked it before and after I got any good at A ranks. Play without intentionally trying for the best, see what it does for you.

Additionally, if you choose to keep it, the GC version plays the best without a doubt.

Sonic Heroes - If you still can't stand it then do whatever you will
Sonic Pocket Adventure - Keep
Sonic Advance 1 - Keep
Sonic Advance 2, 3 - Pass
Sonic Rush - Decent and better than the above, but one of the most intensely overrated games ever. You'll miss the Special Stages, but unlike Chaotix i'm sure you can live without.
Sonic Battle - You can very likely do without
Billy Hatcher - I dunno. The frustration can spike you up ass pretty bad on this one
Chu Chu Rocket - Tried the GBA version. It's neat but I don't think I care for it too much. Keywords: Results may vary.
Feel the magic, Nights, Burning Rangers, Astro Boy - I got none of these

Sonic CD is another game you need to let sink in more. The level designs do feel sorta all over the place, but it's a lot more of an "explorer's" Sonic game. And that's no discrimination. But i've got to say, in general, you seem to have a problem picking up, or getting a grip, on the finer points of some games.

This is all for now, i've more to respond to but this post took me long enough.

One Classy Bloke wrote:Really, quit playing games on brand recognition.

It's not a fully essential line-up. Not by a longshot. But I say brand recognition must play a part as to why anyone here still gives a shit when a new Sonic game's announced. Brands exist so you can find a set of elements you like, and then know where to get more of them. I've moved beyond thinking Sonic is a grand amazing essential anymore. There was a time I'd recommend Sonic games to people without thinking twice, or without accepting a slap across the face. But I haven't found a platforming experience to fill the hole in my personal taste that Sonic's downfall's left, no one has filled the niche of the Sonic brand. Really, Mario's another thing altogether, and Rayman slid into mini-game hell—what's left for quirky platformer fans?