Banjo Three-ie; A Discussion Thereof

j-man · Post by **j-man** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:50 am

So I got my N64 controllers back from a friend the other day, and I decided to bust out Banjo and go for a full-completion record time. Halfway through playing I was pretty glad I wasn't playing Tooie...which led on to a train of thought along the lines of "Damn, what a broken sequel. There was some good bits in it, but it was otherwise a convoluted spaghetti of half-baked ideas. I guess they were just trying too hard." I still had a childish desire for a Gamecube-bound Banjo 3 (this of course being an impossibility with Rare's current "buttbuddy" status with Microsoft), but I wondered if it would have ever changed anything. This continued to musing over the necessity for sequels; the struggle to push the bar higher and keep the player as amused if not more as with the original; a reinvention and a revision of all the parts that make it recognisable. I pondered thusly, and looked upon Tooie with ever greater scorn.

But I digress.

So I was looking for a walkthrough for Banjo, as memory failed and a honeycomb piece eluded me. Because I'm a lazy bum, I just typed BANJO in the search bar and hit go for "All Systems".

As a result, I found out there's a planned Banjo 3. And like, seriously, if this is old news and you guys knew this, then sorry, but DAMN. How did this slip by me?

So ANYWAY. I checked out the trailer on this page, and to be honest...I don't know what to think. I've been a bit worried about the series since...well, Tooie. It was nothing to smile about, but it was playable and it was new. It was a bit too big for it's boots, but it was a Banjo game. Isometric (shudder) "adventures" and krazy karting games made me weak at the stomach, and consequently I'd competely forgotten about the bird and bear. Given the looks of this belated threequel, I wish Rare had, too.

I'm trying to be excited. It peeps out a little bit at the edges, but it's not too hard to contain. Seriously, I don't know what's going on with the design, but it looks like they're trying too hard to not look cartoony. And, I mean, it can't be done! It's Banjo-Kazooie, man. It's not your elements of power. It's not your ghoulie grabbers. Like, I know they've got their style, and I'm sure like every company they need to refresh that every so often, but it only works in certain games with certain premises. As it stands with Banjo design, it's just an awkward, chunky, angular eyesore. They look like grotesque newspaper caricatures with creepy "guy-in-a-suit" eyes. I'm digging the colourful setting of the trailer (even if it's not representational of anything that might happen in-game), but if I have to stare at ass-ugly characters for like fifteen cumulative hours then my enthusiasm is diminished.

I know we have some Banjo lovers in here. What do you guys think? ...you know, if anything?

The Doc · Post by **The Doc** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:02 am

I didn't mind the game much, until I had the rematch with Canary Mary in Cloud Cuckooland. OH, MY FUCKING HOLY JESUS IN HEAVEN. Maybe I wasn't good back then, but if you beat her once there, you were lucky. Thank God you got the Jiggy first. Getting that last Cheato page, though--which you must get by beating her IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD--is impossible without a turbo controller. I mean, you would have to literally have been born a car piston to beat that cunt the fourth time total.

By the way, there's a lot of whining and bitching and moaning about Grunty Industries. I ENJOYED that level, because it was a challenge that didn't compare to the Canary Mary/Cloud Cuckooland debacle.

I just wish there was a better Stop 'N' Swop payout.

Tsuyoshi-kun · Post by **Tsuyoshi-kun** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:29 am

Banjo-Tooie felt too big. In an attempt to diversify the gameplay, Rare made it so big and confusing that it's practically impossible to tell what was going on without a strategy guide, much like Donkey Kong 64. It took me and my brother almost 4 years to get all 90 Jiggies (2 of them spent not playing the game due to the frustration it caused, but still), and I never beat Gruntilda the final time without cheating. The only decent levels were, to me, Jolly Roger Lagoon, Hailfire Peaks, and Gruntie Industries.

Pointlessly big levels aside, there were other problems; shitty frame rate, frustrating swapping of Banjo and Kazooie, boring level design, new powers that were only used, like, once or twice in the game, edge climbing, tedious fetch journies...

Banjo-Kazooie was one of my all-time favorite games, and while the sequel retains the humor I enjoy in the series, almost everything got worse; even the main graphics aren't as detailed or inviting. I can still look at Banjo-Kazooie to this day and not shudder at its graphics; Tooie just looks like shit. And lastly, some of the challenges just blew.

Wonder how much I could sell it on e-bay for...?

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:16 am

Yeah, BK3 is old news...but DAMN IS IT EVER GOOD NEWS!

Also...I kinda want Viva Pinata. ._.

firemario1001 · Post by **firemario1001** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:15 pm

The reason for the crappy framerate was they couldn't get it optimized in time for the holiday season. They really should of utilized the expansion pack for it.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:34 pm

Has it ever been confirmed whether this is a full-blown sequel or just a remake? The area shown in that teaser is obviously the hub from Banjo 1, but I guess we can assume it's not indicative of the final product.

The angular design is a bit weird, but it's not like the original had a gorgeous aesthetic. It's not like any Rare game ever has had a gorgeous aesthetic.

Arcade · Post by **Arcade** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:51 pm

Well, what is easier to make and cheaper in cost? A crappy sequel or a remake? Really, I want to know...

Cuckooguy · Post by **Cuckooguy** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:54 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:Has it ever been confirmed whether this is a full-blown sequel or just a remake? The area shown in that teaser is obviously the hub from Banjo 1, but I guess we can assume it's not indicative of the final product.

Banjo-Tooie also had that hub from Banjo Kazooie. It might possibly be a running tradition to have every game start in Banjo's house.

Perhaps some new witch/villain will drill another hole into the mountainside for you to gain access to the setting of Banjo-Threeie.

Post by WB » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:00 pm

Every Banjo game has had some incarnation of the Spiral Mountain hub in it. Even the game boy one and Pilot (who's background graphics looked mildly tweaked to include it in)

I'll definately agree with the assesment on Tooie, but it ain't got NOTHIN on Donkey Kong 64. I hated that game with an intense burning passion. I never thought a game could be TOO big until I played that monstrosity.

Heroic One · Post by **Heroic One** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:17 pm

Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person actually likes Donkey Kong 64.

Anyways, I saw a "trailer" for the game... it didn't have any gameplay footage and didn't reveal a lick of information, outside of the game's existance I suppose. It kind of reminded me more of a poorly done Looney Tunes cartoon... the gang was being tormented by a giant pencil, drawing various obstacles.

Hopefully that's not what the game is about. Was it the same one you guys saw?

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:05 pm

I was udner the impression that's the only "trailer" they released.

Heroic One · Post by **Heroic One** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:45 pm

Oh, well then... that's certainly something.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:36 am

Rare doesn't make bad platformers, persey. However, they don't know where to quit. They put in so much crap it confuses the fuck out of everyone. They did this in Starfox Adventures too. Please refrain from including more than three types of collectable items, Rare.

I doubt they'll listen, but I can hope.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:52 am

Zeta wrote:Rare doesn't make bad platformers, persey. However, they don't know where to quit. They put in so much crap it confuses the fuck out of everyone. They did this in Starfox Adventures too. Please refrain from including more than three types of collectable items, Rare.

I doubt they'll listen, but I can hope.

Yeah, but SFA was a damn good Zelda clone that got much less love than it deserved.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:33 am

Not really. It was mediocre at best. You had no interesting items or abilities, the graphics were pretty, but the story made no sense and combat was incredibly boring. It was a bland, boring Zelda clone.

Tsuyoshi-kun · Post by **Tsuyoshi-kun** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:16 am

It was hastily put together too, if I remember. It was originally supposed to be for the Nintendo 64, without the Star Fox backdrop.

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:27 pm

Second'd, and, second'd respectively.

Heroic One · Post by **Heroic One** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:58 pm

Poor Star Fox. Your best game was for an ancient console.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:31 pm

Heroic One wrote:Poor Star Fox. Your best game was for an ancient console.

If you mean the SNES, I'm inclined to agree.

Heroic One · Post by **Heroic One** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:38 pm

I meant the N64 one, but the SNES one was pretty cool as well.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:52 pm

Heroic One wrote:I meant the N64 one, but the SNES one was pretty cool as well.

The N64 version had an inferior soundtrack (even though it gave us the now famous Star Fox theme) and it was basically a remake of the first with some full 3D stages added in for the hell of it. Star Fox 2 was going to have full range 3D and it would have been MUCH BETTER, and yet it got cancelled for this shit. It would have added a better soundtrack, two new characters, two new Arwing types with different controls, and better level design.

In my mind, it was one of the reasons the N64 was really a failure, well not a failure, but why PS1 took the throne.

Heroic One · Post by **Heroic One** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:58 pm

I hardly think it's fair to judge a game's quality when you compare it to a non-existant one, but whatever floats your boat I suppose.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:02 pm

Heroic One wrote:I hardly think it's fair to judge a game's quality when you compare it to a non-existant one, but whatever floats your boat I suppose.

It's not non-existant, there IS a beta. Google it.

The Doc · Post by **The Doc** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:51 am

...Y'know, calling Spiral Mountain a "hub"...it makes it sound so darn futuristically cheesy. Why don't you just call it "Mission Control" while you're at it?

Heroic One wrote:Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person actually likes Donkey Kong 64.

Oh, no, the fuck you are NOT. I was obsessed with that game from the second I got it. And as soon as I got the 201st Golden Banana and beat King K.Rool...I did it all over again. I still probably would.

The only major gripes I could possibly have with that game is that A) I sucked ass at the Donkey Kong port that was in it, that you needed to get the Nintendo Coin; and B) Gloomy Galleon as a whole, just because I hate water levels in just about every video game ever. Some complain that Crystal Caves is insanely difficult? Puh. You want a huge-ass level? Creepy Castle. You have to climb the entire damn outside of the castle, for God's sakes, not to mention go all the way THROUGH it, including the spire at the very top! I still loved it, though.

Not to mention the tension you get in Hideout Helm with the countdown. I don't even think that thing stopped when you paused. I always wondered if I'd be any more stressed if I HADN'T gotten all the Blueprints.

Heroic One · Post by **Heroic One** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:36 am

Hooray! I'm not alone in this world!

The Creepy Castle boss fight was genius.