The GHZ Forum

This is a short video put together by QJimbo explaining possible connections between some of the tunes in Sonic 3 and Michael Jackson and/or his composing team.

QJimbo wrote:Just something I put together today. Enjoy!

Download XVID AVI file (49MB) - OFFLINE DUE TO SLASHDOTTING OF MY SERVER!
Or from YouTube.

It's full DVD Quality too :) 6mins long. Sorry I forgot to credit HXC for his interview in the credits! But he's mentioned a lot at the start so meh :P

The only thing that seems to be left out is the miniboss music from Sonic 3 which had a vocal sample of MJ going "Whoo!", which got filtered out in S3&K, as well as a few tunes that were replaced in S&K Collection.

Since the original video is offline, I've gone ahead and uploaded it myself:
http://spazz.nothingforfree.com/video/M ... Sonic3.avi

If you can't hear the similarity between Stranger in Moscow and the Sonic 3 credits, give this a listen:
http://cinos.gunsha.com/s3_credits_mj.mp3

Also, an interview is being set up by the guys over at Simon Wai's 2 Beta with Cirocco (Charles Jones), one of the composers who worked on Sonic 3, so that should shed some more light on this.

I don't think there is any way that any songs written by Michael Jackson could make it into the final game. It's true that some songs were removed in some versions, but they reappeared in later ones, so it can't be a result of legal problems.

I'm pretty sure that the songs removed from the PC version were removed because they contained sampling. The PC version had to support optional MIDI background music, and audio samples can't be encoporated into MIDI songs.

Michael Jackson could never have scored the game on his own. Perhaps he could come up with the tunes himself, but he'd have to collaborate with folks from Sega who actually had experience composing and implementing music for the console.

Those collaborators are probably the ones who had to rescore the game without Michael, so it's no surprise that some of their stuff came out sounding "Jackson-esque." They were already working to ape his style. And I'm sure they'd written a lot of stuff for "Michael's" soundtrack themselves... stuff they probably reused. After all, many composers who worked WITH Jackson are still credited with writing music for the game.

But the similarities to specific songs are almost certainly coincidental. And pointing out the similar chord progressions is pretty meaningless... ALL pop music draws from the same library of similar chord progressions.

I'm pretty sure that the songs removed from the PC version were removed because they contained sampling. The PC version had to support optional MIDI background music, and audio samples can't be encoporated into MIDI songs.

At least the substitutes managed to be better than the original tracks (with the obvious exception of the Ice Cap Zone one).

The only one that struck me as "could not have been imitating Michael" is the ending song, because Stranger in Moscow IS the Sonic 3 ending song with a few extra instruments and Michael singing over it, and Michael's version was made after the game was released. It would be one thing for some sound guys told to ape his style, but it's something altogether different for him to swipe an obscure piece of music from some video game. If the composers were told to re-compose everything they didn't take that one far from what Michael gave them to start out with.

On a bum note, I think someone mentioned how Bridge Zone sound's like one of Janet Jackson's songs. Pretty ironic if the MJ/ Sonic 3 music link is true. I never heard Stranger in Moscow before, but the similarities are pretty suprising.
That said, I'd have to agree with Esrever on the reason why the songs were replaced with midis on the PC version, just mere sampling.

I haven't seen the video yet (or heard Stranger in Moscow anywhere else), but I'll take your word for it. As for the Bridge Zone thing, that tune always did seem somewhat out of place in a Sonic level. It would make sense for it to have been based off a different song.

On that note, has anyone figured out the Green Hills/Sonic You Can Do Anything paradox yet? Ever since GG noted it in the museum, it's been bugging me.

jenkins wrote:On that note, has anyone figured out the Green Hills/Sonic You Can Do Anything paradox yet? Ever since GG noted it in the museum, it's been bugging me.

Do you mean you can't hear the similarity? If not, then <a href="http://spazz.sepwich.com/music/Green%20 ... .mp3">give this a listen.</a>
Additionally, the speed up sound in Sonic Drift 2 also uses the same tune.

Omni Hunter wrote:On a bum note, I think someone mentioned how Bridge Zone sound's like one of Janet Jackson's songs. Pretty ironic if the MJ/ Sonic 3 music link is true.

Are you referring to the Bridge Zone from Sonic 1 Game Gear? Because that track was composed by Yuzo Koshiro, the guy who did the Bare Knuckle / Streets of Rage sountracks. That was long before Sonic 3 was in development (1993).

On a side note, I love that music. I think it was the first "emotional" music I ever heard in a videogame. Yes, I can't explain it properly.

I haven't really been paying attention to the Michael Jackson / Sonic 3 affair - from whence did this information arise? Is there anything more to it than rumor or is just the realm of conspiracy theory?

I think it's confirmed that MJ did work on the Sonic 3 score at one point but his tunes making it into the final version of the game is merely a conspiracy (although an intriguing one).

There's only really two things that suggest that Michael was ever involved in the game's soundtrack. One is that a large number of the musicians credited in the game are famous Jackson collaborators and producers. The other is a statement made in an interview with Roger Hector, which you can read here:

http://www.sws2b.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5270

As far as I know, that's all anyone has to go on. Hector is (I believe) the only primary source who has ever said anything about Jackson directly.

I heard about that originally on Hector's interview but never really payed much attention to it. The video really shows some stuff that's very similar like the Carnival Night bit and the Ending/Stranger in Moscow, but the Ice Cap Zone part is just crazy.

Look for a clue about Naoto Ohshima's death in Sonic Adventure 2. Play the game backwards in a Saturn console and you can hear Yuji Naka say "Yes, I'm sorry but mr. Ohshima is dead. I am now the king of mankind. Accept me as your dictator."

I love this conspiracy stuff. I'm really curious about the next interview.

Is it just me or the guy is trying to make an english accent or something?

Here's a conspiracy theory for you - maybe he's English?

What the hell HE'S BRITISH?!
My world is a lie. Fucking patriots.

j-man wrote:Here's a conspiracy theory for you - maybe he's English?

C'mon, even I wouldn't believe THAT!

I've got another theory... what about...er... space... turtles?

If that was a real British accent, it was the most annoying accent I've ever heard. At least other accents have amusing aspects to them, like how some Indians say Vs as Ws (just imagine someone saying "Castlewania"), and Japanese with that whole "herro I rike remonade" thing.

Or people that can't yell like Schwartzennegger.

It sounded like someone trying their best to put on a generic documentary voice-over voice, along with key phrases such as "but our story doesn't end there".

Opa-Opa wrote:Or people that can't yell like Schwartzennegger.

"GET TO DA CHOPPA!" ?

It's "Schwarzenegger."

I knew there were too many letters there.

Arnie was never the true hero of action films. Everyone knows that Steven Segal has always been, and will always be, the consumate action film hero.

God I hate Steven Segal. I don't even have to justify that opinion. There is no action movie star who I would rather see fall into a hole and die from it.

I like Segal, but only because he has been depicted as a badass chef.
As for the definitive Action Hero, I couldn't really care, I stopped watching stuff like that when I was yay-high.