The GHZ Forum

So, I've noticed there were a couple of games (actually, only two games) I didn't like at first, but liked after not playing for a long while.

When everyone was raving about Katamari Damacy, I got it, and played it, and I was all like, "This is it?" The thing was, my adrenaline never rushed and I was never able to get into the groove into rollings things up. I would roll up a ball and was all like "Wow, this is really boring".

I decided to fire it up again about a 3 quarters of a year later, and for reasons I don't think I can properly explain, I was having a blast. I think the reason behind my sudden change of opinion on this game was because I was intuitively turning the ball into the direction I wanted to turn; I recall that, before, I had to think for about 5 seconds which analog to push up and which analog to push down in order to turn left or right. I'm not sure if this really was the reason for my change of heart, but I like Katamari Damacy now.

I've also been playing the original Grandia again (I'm at the ghost ship now); Before, I thought Grandia I was vastly inferior to Grandia II, though this was because Grandia II was one of the first ten RPGs I've ever played, so I was very impressionable at the time (and because of the lot of flaws in the PSX port of Grandia). I can't really say if it is better than Grandia II as of now, because that would mean I'd have to replay Grandia II again with the mindset and expectations I currently have (something I don't think I'm going to do), but now I love Grandia I so far, moreso than I remember (I actually wasn't impressed with the original Grandia at all when I first finished it). I think the reason behind this was that, when I first played Grandia, I was basically trying to get through it as fast as I can, and found talking to townspeople and exploring a waste of time. I believe, at the time, I wanted more story shoved down my throat and less sidetracking. Now, I've come to realize that was absolutely the wrong mindset to play the game with. There's so much love and thought put into what the townspeople of Parm have to say; if you actually bothered to talk to everyone regularly, you'd feel like all these people were the neighbors you knew of since you were a baby. Sue, who I remember thinking was annoying, is actually very endearing for a cute ten year old girl who thinks she is mature (which she probably is). Lilly Java, or perhaps any character from the game, didn't make any kind of impression on me before, but now they do. I remember thinking that I felt the Ghost Ship was something that was pulled out of the writer's ass just to fill up some game time, and, while that <i>might</i> be true, I've come to realize there's just something inherently adventurous about exploring the unknown, and the fact that it's still an important chapter for an event that comes up later in the game. I don't know why I didn't see all this when I first played this game.

However, there are some games I still don't seem to enjoy after trying to give them another shot, but I know that if I mentioned some of them here, I'd probably get chastized. Two of these games are Ico and Shenmue. There are also a couple of other games I retried for a bit (like Kingdom Hearts), but I know they're not as revered here.

Poison Eggroll wrote:Two of these games are Ico and Shenmue.

I'm going to pistol whip you.

Anyway, I actually kinda hated PSO at first. The targeting system and combo system really pissed me off for the first hour or so, but once I acclimated myself to it, the game became one of my favorites.

PSO Card Battle is a game that I can't form a solid opinion on. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes I love it. Sometimes the card system just clicks and everything comes together, and sometimes it's a complete pain-in-the-ass. The single player story feels like its building up to something, but the non-existant ending is kind of a let-down. It's kind of like an abusive lover-- Just when i think the game really loves me, it ends up hitting me in the stomach with a golf club.

I also bought Beyond Good and Evil awhile ago, and didn't touch it for about a year before I really got into it. I didn't hate it, I just didn't play it for a long-ass time, because I got sidetracked by some of the "bigger" releases that came out. Kinda makes me wish I bought the game when it was new, instead of letting it tank sales-wise. I want a sequel.

I found Tales of Symphonia to be incredibly boring and bland the first few hours of gameplay. Once the plot started opening up, though, I was really into the game for a couple of weeks (though I recently stopped playing due to school and the frustration of the Shadow Temple).

Ico IS overated. I lost interest after the second puzzle, plus I wanted to kill that goddamn girl.

Space channel 5 pissed me off for the first 3 months I was playing it. Mostly because I had no timing. But after awhile everything clicked and I was playing that game like a pimp. sadly though I hate the fact that you can't play that game in front of your friends without getting laughed at.

Squirrelknight wrote:I also bought Beyond Good and Evil awhile ago, and didn't touch it for about a year before I really got into it. I didn't hate it, I just didn't play it for a long-ass time, because I got sidetracked by some of the "bigger" releases that came out. Kinda makes me wish I bought the game when it was new, instead of letting it tank sales-wise. I want a sequel.

A small glimmer of hope.

I've always loved the original Grandia. One of the first RPGs I ever played.

I really didn't care much for Disgaea for the first few hours. I'd never been exposed to strategy rpg's before and the idea of playing through an rpg where there's no exploration and you just select locations on a map seemed REALLY weak After a little while with the battle system though I quickly came to understand the true beauty of the genre and greatly enjoyed the game. Unless it turns out to be utter ass, I'll definitely be picking up the upcoming sequel too...assuming it makes it to Europe.

Light Speed wrote:A small glimmer of hope.

Awesome news, if true! I guess no one here will know how reputable that French site is, seeing as it is... in French. Hmm....

As for the thread subject, I will readily admit that I was once one of those idiotic Sega fanboys who insisted that the Mario games were horrible. I mean, I swear that in my heart of hearts, I actually believed that they were bad. I don't know why. I'm sure I had played them.

Fanboyism can cause some pretty irrational behaviour...

Ancel's name has been tossed around alot lately, and I harbor the faint hope that if he can garner enough media attention, perhaps Ubisoft will let him make Beyond 2 based on the marketability of his name alone. In that respect, perhaps agreeing to make the King Kong game was a wise move on his part.


I actually never liked Metroid (the first one on the NES) until just about four months ago.

I kind of went through multiple phases of liking and disliking Metroid Prime. I'm not the biggest first person shooter fan, so the basic premise of the gameplay wasn't my cup of tea to start with but the exploration and the elements of the story slowly revealing themselves began to grow on me. However I really hated the part near the end of the game where you had to go back to the areas you previously visited to pick up the hidden artifacts, simply because every time you move through the doors to another sub-area, those enemies you've already wasted 5 times already are back again to greet you. Still, upon completing the game I was satisfied with it despite it's flaws.

Final Fantasy IV was another game I disliked to begin with merely because after visitng the Mist Village (at the begining of the game) I had absolutely no idea where to go since the area of the world map you're in at that point is an incredibly vast desert, and the only destination I could find was a cave with an old man in it blocking your path. I gave up on it after that. A good while later read an FAQ, and realised that there was a small village in the middle of the desert ou had to vist. After figuring that out, I played through the rest of the game and enjoyed it.

BTW Gibbon, have you ever played Super Metroid?

I guess Sonic Riders falls into this category. I was a bit pessimistic at first but there's so much to unlock, secret boards, characters, and boards made in Challenge Mode are just a few.
The new characters aren't so bad either, Wave is the one who wears the trousers usually, Jet is a pretty fresh character too, his irresponsibility and ego actually come off well.
As for Storm, I'd have to say he's a bit too generic but that's not to write him off completely.

I had a similar experience with Metroid Prime. I loved it to death until the artifact quest at the end. But the artifact quest bothered me SO much that I put the game down and didn't touch it for 10 months. I didn't pick it up again until shortly before Prime 2 was released.

As for the original NES Metroid, I still don't really like it. I think it's just too hard for me. I'm honestly not very good a video games! (Except for your falling-block-puzzle variety.)

What they ought to do is make a Beyond Good and Evil sequel, but give it a different name. I swear, that name killed that game. It's like "Arrested Development." It sounds too smart. Who wants that? They should have called it "Jade Vengeance", and on the cover she should have been holding the staff, not the camera. Also, she probably should have been bending over so you can see her cleavage. Maybe with an explosion in the background.

The only two Metroid games I really played for any length of time are Prime and Fusion. I think they are both great games, but I played them both with a walkthrough cause I just don't have the patience to shoot/bomb every surface in the freaking game. I tried playing both without a walkthrough and got halfway through with far far less energy tanks and missle expansions than I could have. I remember in Prime, I got all the way to the rock boss and it just damn near impossible for me to beat him cause I only had 25 missles. When I played through the game with the walkthrough I had something like 75. Sure you can still beat him with 25, but it makes the fight like 40 times as long cause you gotta run around like a moron shooting rocks to get missle drops. I really enjoyed the games after I played through them with the walkthrough, but I still feel really lame for beating them this way.

Also, it looks like Beyond Good and Evil 2 isn't in development at all right now, so that small glimmer of hope is even smaller now. Ubisoft didn't say there was no chance of a sequel, they just said it wasn't in the works at the moment.

http://www.revolutionfanboy.com/2006/03 ... d-for-now/

The only two Metroid games I really played for any length of time are Prime and Fusion.

Did you try Zero Mission? I liked ZM and Fusion both an awful lot, more than any other Metroid I've played. ZM is very easy, but I think that actually made it more enjoyable, something that could be played pretty liesurely and I could sit back and I could enjoy running through creepy caverns waiting for scary 2D sprites to jump out at me. I also liked seeing the original Metroid (a game I never liked that much but played all the way through somehow anyway) locations and enemies revisited, it was exciting to see how they changed things. It never quite reaches what Fusion had with that "something is hunting you" terror aspect, but it's pretty and the overall experience is very smooth.

Light Speed wrote:The only two Metroid games I really played for any length of time are Prime and Fusion. I think they are both great games, but I played them both with a walkthrough cause I just don't have the patience to shoot/bomb every surface in the freaking game. I tried playing both without a walkthrough and got halfway through with far far less energy tanks and missle expansions than I could have. I remember in Prime, I got all the way to the rock boss and it just damn near impossible for me to beat him cause I only had 25 missles. When I played through the game with the walkthrough I had something like 75. Sure you can still beat him with 25, but it makes the fight like 40 times as long cause you gotta run around like a moron shooting rocks to get missle drops. I really enjoyed the games after I played through them with the walkthrough, but I still feel really lame for beating them this way.

I completely agree with you there. I could never get myself to play through any of the Metroid games because I'd miss all the powerups and also because I'd get stuck at some point, and when I looked up the solution, it turned out to be "bomb this completely random location in this one specific room". Usually after the second or third of those I'd throw the game out and never touch it again. It happened with Super Metroid, Fusion, and maybe Zero Mission. I never got far in the first Metroid because I'd die within 15 minutes, and Prime just bored me because I didn't want to scan every single thing in the game.

As for Beyond Good and Evil, I'd have to think the chances of that coming out are even lower than Shenmue 3. Ubisoft is becoming just as money whoring as EA right now. Basically all they're doing is pushing their successful franchises in Splinter Cell/Rainbow Six/Ghost Recon (all 3 series have new sequels in development planned for this or next year, even though the last game in each came out within the past year/month/month).

I got to Metroid Prime (the boss) and then just... quit. For some reason I had no desire to go any further in that game after the fight with Ridley. Maybe the pain in the ass ever-spawning, deadly deadly metroids just outside the final chamber lowered my enthusiasm for the following bajillion staged fight. As for Beyond Good and Evil, you need at least three explosions to reach the kids these days, and they would probably need to replace her staff with an automatic weapon of some kind.

I dunno, in that roof running scene in Beyond Good and Evil was almost orgasmic. I think that alone counts as three explosions. I think people just aren't that into quirky characters and fun art styles anymore, they see stuff like that and automatically think the game is designed for kids. I think that is why Psychonauts bombed so badly.

To answer G.Silver, I never played Metroid Zero Mission, I am actually currently playing Fusion right now, I never beat it way back when, so I just recently started over and am close to the end I believe. I think I'll pick it up after this since I am still playing old games while I wait for something worthwhile to come out/find a 360.

It's good to know some people agree with me on the Metroid walkthrough thing. :)!

Yeah, there was lots of exploding in Beyond Good and Evil! And lasers and aliens and hovercraft racing and a sexy female lead! Honestly, it was an incredibly marketable game. They just chose to play up the least-sellable aspects of the game, and give it a really pretentious-sounding title. That shows a lot of integrity and everything, but I would have rather have had it sell better.

I share the Metroid item troubles you guys have with the original games, but definitely not with the more recent ones. Especially not the Prime series. The puzzles and item placement are all very organic and intuitive, and the bombing locations are always obvious because they show on your scan visor. Besides, you always know an item is nearby because it makes the "vummm vummm vummmm" sound. It's hard to miss them!

Zero Mission and Fusion don't have anything (I think?) that really gives away bombing locations, but I thought all the critical ones were generally in pretty obvious places. I say "obvious" but it's more like Metroid-obvious, you begin to develop an eye for what is a conspicuous location in a Metroid game before long, at least in the 2D ones. (or maybe in ZM's case I'm just remembering the general areas from the first game?) Anyway, when I needed a walkthrough it would always be for something incredibly stupid, like being in the totally wrong area or forgetting about some ability I should have known could be used a certain way.

After playing Metroid games for a while, people do tend to develop a certain intuition for where secret passages and items are hidden. Of course, even then, there are at least a couple totally obscure items--especially in Fusion and ZM, where the tactics used to reach items began to become increasingly complex.

Wow, a Metroid thread. I guess there is a god.

I'm still no good at the original Metroid, but I've played through Super Metroid several times, and never lost interest in it, it's definitely the best in the Metroid series. Not to discredit Zero Mission and Fusion, but they just don't quite have the same feel.

I missed this at first too, but Fusion (and I think Zero Mission) shows the item locations on the map screen. That at least narrows it down to which room you need to carpet bomb.

Super Metroid represented items as dots on the map screen. Fusion and Zero Mission improved on this by representing them as circles before you acquire them and then as dots afterwards.

Graphically speaking, my main gripe with Zero Mission and Fusion was how tiny Samus's sprite was and the over-bubbly, contorted walls in the vertical chambers in ZM. I would opt to SM's flat, austere surroundings any day, they just had so much more atmosphere. Plus, the music in ZM, while a big improvement over the original music, is still just not sinister enough. Super Metroid had an amazing soundtrack, especially the underwater Maridia and the red soil Brinstar.

I do like ZM's version of Norfair, though, and I've always liked the tune for Kraid's lair.