A Gamers' Manifesto

[DarkPrime]

I though this was a pretty interesting article.

It looks at 20 different problems of the upcoming next-gen consoles, or rather, what gamers' should expect game-wise for the next-gen consoles.

I agree with pretty much all of it. It's a good read. Check it out.

[Esrever]

That was a lot funnier than I would have expected!

[Omni Hunter]

The boobies/nipples debate proves just how important they are to the future of gaming.

[Delphine]

<i> There is hope however. Like all industry, it is inevitable that females will eventually forge their place in the world of game design. The female designers will burst on the scene soon enough, heaving their giant bosoms of talent and creativity and brandishing their black thongs of diversity.</i>

If we had signatures here, that would become my signature, because that's pretty awesome.

[Green Gibbon!]

The industry as a whole has turned into something very Hollywood-esque, a trend that's been slowly gaining prevalance over the past two console generations. It's not ours anymore and I've lost the grand majority of the interest I used to have. As of the past couple of years, I play games like I watch movies - I pick out a nugget of gold here and there and ignore everything else. I was hoping the announcement of the new consoles would alter that trajectory, but it has, as I feared, solidified it.

Maybe this is why I've started considering getting back into guppy breeding...

[VGJustice]

I read that at another forum. Like I said there, I've been saying most of that for years. I believe that I've been wanting better AI since the days of the Super Nintendo. And I've known that graphics should be secondary to the process, but, slowly, if the game doesn't look pretty, it gets ripped. *Shrug* I've already vented on this, and I've slipped back into apathy mode. Oh, well. Back to Guild Wars...

[chriscaffee]

There have always been more bad games then good ones and anyone who says different is kidding themselves.

[DarkPrime]

I think the biggest problem with the current video game console trend is the fact that a console isn't just a console anymore. They've got to be everything to everyone. I was actually quite surprised that none of the new consoles support a DVR function.

"It's no surprise, then, when Sony President Ken Kutaragi says "The PS3 is not a game machine."

Then why call it Playstation?

[The Doc]

This is why America's economy is in the shitter.

[Zeta]

Agreed. Videogaming has gone TOO mainstream. To the point where the only games coming out are to videogames to what Vin Diesel movies are to the cinema. Empty-headed and pretty-looking "spectacles" built around testosterone, boobs, and gore - with no redeaming or meaningful features. Gaming is no longer treated as something of it's own. Rather, it's become an auxilary to watching movies and listening CDs. Developers no longer have the money to make real games, instead they make multimedia "experiences" designed to attract the lowest common denomenator - IE, the average SpikeTV viewer. What does this mean? Games are simplified in every way but looks. In terms of depth of plot, in terms of gameplay, and in terms of originality.

Until technology makes game production available to "experimental" developers, in the same way that the independant movie circuit developed, gaming is officially dead. Lost to the cheerleaders and fratboys, a domain that was once reserved for nerds. It's the equivalent of having a fratboy move into the library of congress and replace all the documents with issues of Playboy and Maxim.

Gaming is dead until we get a Sundance version of e3.

[chriscaffee]

You guys really aren't that perceptive. Sex and violence have been appealed to in media since man first created art. The "recent trend" of "mainstream" gains is not recent, nor is it a trend, nor is it bad. Basically it's a bunch of elitests - not realizing that their opinions are no more valuable or inspired then anyone elses - getting upset because every game isn't custom-tailored to their exact personal preference. Then they claim it's a "problem with the industry." Wake up and grow up.

[Zeta]

No! Violence is wrong and shouldn't be used to sell games! Agree with me or I keel you!

[Omni Hunter]

But what is the line between violent and non-violent? Most games have so called enemies in their different types. Smashing a badnik to pieces, squishing a goomba, aren't those types of violence where you take action to "kill" or "harm" the object. Sadly most platform games have this as a requirement. I can't think of many games where there is no object to harm, no matter if it's jumping on somethings head or shooting something with a big fuck off gun.

[Segaholic2]

Play games that are fun. Being an elitist asshole doesn't make your opinion more valid than the next guy's. In my opinion, we've still gotten plenty enough great games this generation to merit an eventual purchase of all three consoles, and I'm sure the same thing will happen next generation with enough time. The only thing wrong with today's industry is that with its current size and growth, we get more games, and thus more bad games. Deal with it.

Also, I have to agree with Caffee on the point of sex and violence. It's not a recent trend at all, and what's wrong with sex and violence in games so long as it isn't so gratuitous that it actually takes away from the experience?

[Baba O'Reily]

While I agree with Segaholic on this one, I have to admit, it's very possible to make a good game without gratuitous sex or violence.

[Segaholic2]

Well, of course. I guess I should've said that.

[Zeta]

Also, I have to agree with Caffee on the point of sex and violence. It's not a recent trend at all, and what's wrong with sex and violence in games so long as it isn't so gratuitous that it actually takes away from the experience?

That's chiefly what I was refering too. It's fine in a game like DMC3 or RE4 where the experience is actually decent. But not when it's the only selling point for a game.

[Double-S-]

Sex and violence as sellers is a pretty recent trend in gaming (at least sex). I can barely think of a few games from the 16-bit era which tried to capitalize on these and did well. Now in the modern era more than a handful immediately spring to my mind. They don't so much detract from the gaming experience as they replace the experience, a shoddy mass-appealing cover for an average game. And this is not bad how?

However, we're still getting good games, like Zelda. So I'm fine for now.

[big_smile]

Play games that are fun. Being an elitist asshole doesn't make your opinion more valid than the next guy's. In my opinion, we've still gotten plenty enough great games this generation to merit an eventual purchase of all three consoles, and I'm sure the same thing will happen next generation with enough time. The only thing wrong with today's industry is that with its current size and growth, we get more games, and thus more bad games. Deal with it.

While I agree that the industry has always had bad games, my problem is that my favourite franchises have become so eager to please the mass market that they have started to sacrifice the unique and distinctive qualities that made them excellent in the first place.

Of course, any industry needs a healthy supply of mass market titles to stay a float, but these days, the revenues from such games are no longer used to support games that attempt to do something different.

It’s also worth noting that mass market games aren’t always necessarily bad. The original Sonic game, for example, was designed to appeal to a mainstream audience. However, in the past, such concerns didn’t stop such games from trying something new or distinctive. Now, however, games wishing to appeal to large audiences have to stay within certain genres and aesthetic styles, which constrains their sense of imagination.

^_^

[tornadot]

Want to see what happens when games try to get in with the mainstream? Look at Final Fantasy, especially with its prissy guys who are extremely popular in Japan, and somewhat in the US as well...

[Zeta]

Want to see what happens when games try to get in with the mainstream? Look at Final Fantasy, especially with its prissy guys who are extremely popular in Japan, and somewhat in the US as well...

Actually, what's interesting about the FF games is that, excepting X-2, they're mainstream in Japan but target a niche (anime geeks) in the US. They do this by employing heroes and archetypes that are generally conventional in Japan, while slightly unconventional in the US (namely putting women or feminine or average-looking guys in the role of barbarian hero). When the first Final Fantasy is released that features a scarred, muscle-bound meathead as the main character, and emphasizes swashbuclking over melodrama (and it's only a matter of time, Square HAS to run outta ideas eventually), the stream will change again.

In other words, large cultural differences mean that they can't be mainstream in two places at once, lack of originality in any FF game for years not taken into account. Of course, the fact that it appears most FF fans in the US are male and the opposite is true for Japan might also play a factor. Although I think the male US audience only had a slight gain over the chicks.

[Kishi]

Want to see what happens when games try to get in with the mainstream? Look at Final Fantasy, especially with its prissy guys who are extremely popular in Japan, and somewhat in the US as well...

Final Fantasy heroes have been "prissy" since the very first game. There's never been an overtly masculine main character, and even masculine supporting characters have consistently been in the minority.

[Locit]

Hey, Skies of Arcadia emphasized swashbuckling and a somewhat masculine main character and look how that turned out.
How did that turn out, anyways? I never heard how it did in Japan.

[Cuckooguy]

I'm not sure I'd label Vyse as masculine; that is to say, if I had to make a list of masculine RPG characters, he'd probably not be on my list. I'd say the most masculine RPG main character that I've encountered is Maxim from Lufia 2. Though I'd have a hard time putting Maxim on the list too, because Guy, Dekar, and maybe even Selan from Lufia 2 happen to be more masculine.

My favorite characters are usually the bigger brother types (who are usually masculine). They're so cool and laid-back. Ronfar (Lunar 2)'s so cool. And so is Mash (FFVI). Zell happened to be my favorite character in FFVIII. Though, Zell does share a great resemblance to Mash.

[Delphine]

Ward is the hawttest character in FFVIII.