So...citizens of the U.S. of A. who are 18+ years

[SuperKnux]

Why do people who aren't homosexuals have any say in whether gay marriage is legal or not? It's not affecting them unless they're really religious people who believe it's wrong. ]

Ex - fuckin' - actly.

To quote s5 of SuicideGirls:

This election will forever be seen as the day that Americans made a choice to look past 4 years of bad policy to obsess over the one issue that concerns them the least [gay marriage]. Do Americans care about jobs or credible leadership or fiscal responsibility or the environment? Clearly not.

[Delphine]

Why does anyone care whether or not I marry a woman? Why does anyone care if I marry a woman and call it marriage? Why does anyone care what <i>I</i> do with <i>my</i> life? Why does anyone care who <i>I</i> love?

Why do the majority of voters in 11 states in the self-proclaimed greatest country in the world view me as a second class citizen because I like pussy?

Why does your god dislike me so much that he wants me unhappy? I didn't <i>choose</i> to be this way. I tried to <i>kill myself</i> because I didn't WANT to be this way. There was a time in my life where I <b>hated myself because I was not straight.</b> You call that a choice? You call that something I can change? You call that something you and/or the government have any say in?

I was going to be civil about this, but I can't. If you're against gay marriage? Fuck you. Just fuck you. Fuck you, the horse you rode in on, the guy who made the horse's saddle, and the little girl who fed it apples. It's <i>my</i> life, NOT YOURS, and you have no goddamned right to keep me from being able to marry a woman. Fuck. You.

[Zeta]

It won't be much longer till we have a gay terrorist organization. I'm suprised it hasn't happened before this, to be honest.

$50 bucks says they call their organization "Stonewall".

[Ash Holt]

Civil Unions don't grant as many rights as marriage. Especially in the case of death or wills - if for instance, two gay guys are in a civil union - one of the partners is put into a coma. His family has more rights to take him off life support or not than his "husband".

There's also a bunch of other legal benefits that civil unions aren't granted - many companies will only insure spouses, not partners in a civil union.

I'm getting a little sick of people saying that a marriage and a civil union is the same thing. Legally, it's not.

I believe that the government should back out of marriage entirely, and civil unions would have their rights extended so that they get everything a married couple were. Then the religions could handle the rest.

But the Jesus freaks would leap up and scream about how evil it is to take God out of the country.

Ah, alright, so Civil Unions really aren't quite a good compromise.

But what I was going to say is if a Civil Union and a marriage both entailed all the same rights, then they are the same thing and trying to create a difference by giving them different names is just silly and desperate, not to mention degrading to gay couples.

Really, people of all faiths and cultures get married, so it's not just a Christian thing. They don't have the right to say who can and cannot get married if those people are outside of their faith. Inside of their faith, they can do whatever the fuck they want, I don't really care.

[Baba O'Reily]

It won't be much longer till we have a gay terrorist organization. I'm suprised it hasn't happened before this, to be honest.

$50 bucks says they call their organization "Stonewall".

I'm shooting for 'The Mauve Hand', myself.

[Spazz]

Netaku's pretty much summed up what my conclusion has come to be. Religious leaders have the right to tell their followers how to live because that's what those people have chosen. Like I said, let people live their lives they way they want, It's not your problem.
(Note: I am speaking <b>only</b> on the grounds of gay marrige.)

[Pepperidge]

Yeah, that was pretty much my argument for gay marriage as well. How the idea that marriage is an exclusively Christian concept came about I will never understand.

Oh wait, it's America. I forgot.

[Grant]

What terribly frightens me is that, as Popcorn alluded to earlier, a huge amount of people voted based on supposed "moral issues", with the candidate's policies being a distant second or third.

This is why I was really, really, really disappointed when Ohio was called for Bush. Ohio has been one of the most affected states during Bush's tenure! An alarming number of jobs were lost, education costs are a huge problem and the economy has been horrible. Sounds like it would be ripe for the Democrats picking, right?

And yet, in spite of this, the state goes to Bush. Why? Because Issue 1 brought the GOP vote out, big time. That's right, people would rather continue losing jobs and schools as long as they can continue preventing gay people from marrying.

This country is being run by it's most ignorant and we are going backwards.

[Zeta]

And yet, in spite of this, the state goes to Bush. Why? Because Issue 1 brought the GOP vote out, big time. That's right, people would rather continue losing jobs and schools as long as they can continue preventing gay people from marrying.

Yeah, now just picture how that statement would feel to you if you were actually gay. It's like having the entire free world personally insult you.

[aso]

True... things can only get worse from here. Much, much worse. Now that Bush is overly comfortable in his seat of power, he's going to flex his fingers and fuck things up more than before. That's a given.

... all I can say is, there will eventually be a turn around. It'll be four long years before it finally comes, but it will come. The rate that parties remain in power moves in a cycle, doesn't it?

[Grant]

Yeah, now just picture how that statement would feel to you if you were actually gay. It's like having the entire free world personally insult you.

Hey, man, I'm with you on this. A lot of people are, actually. It's just a matter of the general public understanding what's going on. They need someone that will actually say it like it is and wake some people up to what's going on.

This isn't a religious or a moral issue. It is a civil right issue. People can't keep saying that it's not their problem, because as long as we continue to discriminate based on something as uncontrollable as your sexual preference, it's everyone's problem.

I think a big reason Issue 1 passed so overwhelmingly was because of ignorance. People don't understand this issue. This election didn't help anything, since both candidates (Kerry especially) were too worried about pandering to voters. Neither would take a hard stance on anything, and consequently, no one really understood the issue enough to form an educated opinion.

We haven't had a real debate since the League of Women's Voters stopped sponsoring the debates in 1996. You know why? Because now it's run by a special committee made up of only Democrats and Republicans. It's why there's been no third party candidate in the past few debates. It's why the debates are so scripted. They're in complete control.

Bottom line is, I don't think the current situation is much different than the civil rights activism of the 60s. And I think if the public were awakened to this - really made aware - you'd see a lot of opinions change.

[Zeta]

Yeah, I know. I'm sorry if I snapped at you, Grant. It's just that I haven't felt this bad since I decided to stop being a passive, sucidally depressed, lonely, anti-social, dangerously overweight loser -

And become an antagonistic, opinionated, confident, social, hyperactive, non-self killing, skinny loser.

Luckily I have a few things to keep my sanity. My computer, you guys, my cats, my boyfriend and his gang, my Mom . . .

*sighs* It's going to be a bad 4 years. I predict everything will boil down to:

"The 1960s: Part Deux"

That really looks like the way things are headed. I'm sure Bush will TRY to screw things up. But eventually, they'll be such a public upheaval that the entire country will be in turmoil. Over economy, warfare, the draft, religion, gay rights - it's ALL going to hit the fan by 2006. Hopefully, it won't be as violent as the '60s thanks to the way we can now bitch over the internet.

But it's going to be pretty damn bad.

The only comfort I can take is that:

* Every president that's been elected in a year ending in "0" has been shot, fallen ill, was injured, or otherwise came to great harm during their presidency.
* Bush is problably going to end up with a legacy similar to that of Richard Nixon.

[chriscaffee]

Nixon's only legacy is having a very oddly shaped nose. And he is the only President who did like dual peace signs.

[Segaholic2]

Guh.

I don't mean to come off as a big whiny bitch, but maybe you guys could try to be a little more optimistic about this country's future? I wouldn't be saying those kinds of things if Kerry had won (or at least I tell myself I wouldn't, but hey, I'm human).

I know you guys really hate Bush and anyone that isn't liberal and stuff, but not all of us are conservative Christian Bible-thumping gay-hating Jesus freaks. Although in my case, I guess all of those apply except for the gay-hating part. I don't discriminate against anyone based on anything (except stupidity), and I'm sorry that a lot of people that call themselves "Christians" express such violent hatred to gays. I really try my best to not piss people off with my political and religious views, and I like to think that I succeed most of the time. I hope I haven't done that to any of you here, because I consider (almost ) all of you good friends.

Reading all these things that you guys are complaining about is pretty depressing, and I really don't think the next four years are going to be as bad as some of you think (although I'm sure you'll disagree). But please, for the sake of this country and all that other patriotic jazz, could we put aside the partisan bashing at least for now?

[Ash Holt]

Gay is the new black. Haven't you all been following your Horrible Bigot Monthly?

Anyway, I'm with you to an extent, NT (since when do I call you NT?). I don't think the world is going to end or anything, but.. I don't know. I'm just not looking completely forward to it, but time will pass and things will heal.

But hey, at least we may not have to choose between two people we don't even really like next election, eh? I'm hoping McCain runs, I kind of like the guy. Granted, I don't actually know much about his political history, but he always seemed like an intelligent guy, and an actual compassionate conservative. But maybe I'm ignorant.

[Grant]

Yeah, I know. I'm sorry if I snapped at you, Grant.

Oh, no worry, McFlurry. I hardly took it that way. I understand where you're coming from, anyway.

But please, for the sake of this country and all that other patriotic jazz, could we put aside the partisan bashing at least for now?

We may as well ought to, since no one - Democrat or Republican - is going to give two shits what anyone thinks for another four years.

Not to be too much of a misanthrope, but does anyone remember that old John Titor hoax? Wasn't one of the first things he predicted a civil war between the cities and rural areas by 2008? That doesn't seem completely far fetched right now, if you ask me.

Actually, just taking a look at the election map shows that the country is still pretty divided even by the old civil war lines.

I'm (mostly) kidding, of course. There isn't going to be a civil war, in all likelihood - but Nate's right, the country is still very divided, even if we have (sadly) confirmed that we do, officially, live in a right-of-center nation.

And there's nothing we can do about it for at least four more years. Just gonna have to get used to it.


This day has sucked all around. I need sleep.

[Zeta]

But please, for the sake of this country and all that other patriotic jazz, could we put aside the partisan bashing at least for now?

It's not the Republicans I hate, Nate. This is entirely specific to Bush. He's fucking NUTS. His first new project for the year is to END PORNOGRAPHY. ONLINE. That'll keep him busy. He's trying to control what we THINK.

I've agreed with Republicans before. I LIKED Regan, except for his economic policies. And Bush Sr. was OK.

This is a person-specific hate.

He's for censoring crap from Japan on the basis that it's not American, for criminy's sake.


Heh. And my phillosphy teacher brought up a new wrinkle:

In a state of emergency, the President doesn't have to leave office.

So who wants to bet Bush will get us in a really bad war in 2008? So he doesn't have to leave office. Other presidents in other countries have used it as a ploy before - to declare themselves "President for Life."

And if Bush gets the sheep scared enough - they'll do anything he asks because he'll protect us from the big-bad Non-Americans - whoever they may be.

[Baba O'Reily]

Well, if you think about it, if Kerry had waited for those votes to come in, odds are, they'd probably be split down the middle. But if there was an overwhelming majority of those people voting for Kerry, the Republicans would get suspicious (As they should in this situation), and start investigating why so many out of state votes were for Kerry. This could result in a lawsuit or several other nasty things for Kerry that he may or may not have done.
I think he realized that and conceded, even if it ends up fucking us over.

[Zeta]

Hey, they didn't investigate it when Jeb got a bunch of dead guys and convicts to vote for his brother.

[j-man]

:(

That's all I have to say after hearing yersterday's result.

Just... :(

[Delphine]

I know you guys really hate Bush and anyone that isn't liberal and stuff, but not all of us are conservative Christian Bible-thumping gay-hating Jesus freaks. Although in my case, I guess all of those apply except for the gay-hating part.

I know, Holic. The Christian Bible-thumping Jesus-freaks aren't the ones that bother me, it's the gay-hating part that does. Xian Bible-thumping Jesus-freaks can be kind of fun, actually, if a little on the kooky side. It's the ones that say they're Christian and then go and hate gays -- or anyone, for that matter -- that piss me right the hell off, because that's <i>not</i> Christianity. That cool Jewish dude you guys call Jesus had a pretty neat philosophy -- y'know, love thy neighboor and all that -- and a bunch of morons calling themselves Christians have spent the last 2000 years killing and hating because they're not sure exactly how he meant it.

And regarding civil war, dissent, and revolution:

What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is its natural manure.

[Zeta]

Bush doesn't have blood. His veins are filled with beer, insanity, hate, and corn.

[j-man]

And banjos.

[Zeta]

Bush isn't even from Texas. He didn't move there till like 10 years ago. He spent most of his life in New England. He fakes the damn accent.

[j-man]

But why? It makes him sound like a jackass. Like, the jackass that he is. Maybe he figured he wanted the complete jackass package.