Le secret project

[FlashTHD]

Shadow ran after Mephiles. He sealed them in this staff handed to him by the duke

Didn't all this happen on the alternate timeline, though? (: I was referring to the one that "happened" before the events in the game changed history.

Besides, didn't Mephiles look like Shadow back then too? I'm not talking about Grayshadow, I'm talking about the weird shattered crystal spines with no nose or mouth thing. Or the shadow thing you fight against.

The more you try, the more you mix it up, so let me straighten it out:

The duke's crazy experiment releases Iblis and Mephiles. Shadow and Silver happen to have gone back in time to witness this. Severely injured duke gives Shadow a weird scepter and tells him to use that to seal "it". Shadow corners Mephiles, who at this point is a nondescript shadowy puddle of death, and seals him with the scepter as Mephiles makes some vauge threats. Shadow leaves the scepter behind with Elise and goes back to the present. (yes, that's as stupid as it sounds, roll with me here)

Now, go back to the future, Marty!!, to the start of Shadow's story in 06. He has not done the above yet and won't for a while. The scepter is in Eggman's possession, Shadow and Rouge swipe it not knowing what it is. Eggman tries to take it back the hard way and scepter ends up breaking, releasing Mephlies, who as a gesture of vengeance or something, turns into the gray Shadow lookalike with no mouth, then throws Shadow and Rouge into the destroyed future.

They run into Team Sonic out there and they devise a means to get back to the present, but Shadow "voids his return ticket" when grayShadow-Mephiles shows up to silently taunt him. The two have a confrontation, Mephiles tries to play mind games to sway him to his side, Shadow ain't buying it. Mephlies turns into the creepy crystalShadow form, boss battle ensues.

Not long after Shadow gets back to the present, he runs into Silver at a train yard and the two have it out. They create a warp to the past in the battle by accident, and both wanting to get to the bottom of it all, they jump into the portal and go do the things in the first paragraph.

There you have it. Nothing about Prison Island or violating Shadow's casket or anything from SA2.

Dude. I really don't care that much.

...why did you keep asking then?

[K2J]

It's an Expansion Pack Past taken to ludicrous levels is what it is. How many fucking times are they gonna refer back to SA2's plot threads?

They only refered to SA2's plot threads in one game, Shadow the Hedgehog, which was pretty much SA2 Part 2 anyway in terms of story.

[Frieza2000]

At the time of the Soleanna experiment ten years ago, he was warped into the past with Shadow, and was sealed away with him in that capsule. This is why Shadow harbors such deep resentment. He makes up Shadow's dark side, and is fuel for his burning desire as the ultimate life-form.

Two possibilities. First, We know this was an early design doc and some things changed, so it could have been the original story. But it resembles the actual story enough that it could just be a sloppy translation. The warping into the past probably refers to Shadow's trip with Silver, the "capsule" it mentions is the wand that Shadow sealed Mephiles with (the reason that Mephiles harbors resentment to Shadow, not Shadow to Mephiles), and the stuff about Shadow's dark side probably just refers to the fact that Mephiles entered Shadow's shadow to assume his form, maybe also acquiring some of his attributes. If you just switch the position of the names and change a word or two it works:

At the time of the Soleanna experiment ten years ago, Shadow was warped into the past and he was sealed away by him in that wand. This is why he harbors Shadow such deep resentment. He was made from Shadow's shadow, and is fueled by his burning desire as the ultimate life-form.

[Frieza2000]

They only refered to SA2's plot threads in one game, Shadow the Hedgehog, which was pretty much SA2 Part 2 anyway in terms of story.

And Sonic Battle.

[P.P.A.]

You can purchase Iblis? How much? There's a few guys I'd love to see dealing with some flames of disaster.

Oops, silly me.

Shadow ran after Mephiles. He sealed them in this staff handed to him by the duke

Didn't all this happen on the alternate timeline, though? (: I was referring to the one that "happened" before the events in the game changed history.

I assume that's some sort of time paradox, because all the things happened only because they happen. Err... You see, Mephiles knows Shadow when accidentally released and holds a grudge against him for sealing him in that staff, except Shadow didn't do it "yet". But then later in the story Shadow travels back 10 years and seals him, fulfilling the requirements for all... that... My brain hurts.
EDTI: Bah, FlashTHD already explained it better than I did.

Besides, didn't Mephiles look like Shadow back then too? I'm not talking about Grayshadow, I'm talking about the weird shattered crystal spines with no nose or mouth thing. Or the shadow thing you fight against.

That crystal form was kind of an evolution of the grey Shadow form, and he didn't take that form until in the future. In the past, Mephiles was nothing but a... black puddle or goo.

Uh no,

Dude. I really don't care that much.

Me neither. At least that's what I'm trying to convince me and others of.

[P.P.A.]

At the time of the Soleanna experiment ten years ago, he was warped into the past with Shadow, and was sealed away with him in that capsule. This is why Shadow harbors such deep resentment. He makes up Shadow's dark side, and is fuel for his burning desire as the ultimate life-form.

Two possibilities. First, We know this was an early design doc and some things changed, so it could have been the original story. But it resembles the actual story enough that it could just be a sloppy translation. The warping into the past probably refers to Shadow's trip with Silver, the "capsule" it mentions is the wand that Shadow sealed Mephiles with (the reason that Mephiles harbors resentment to Shadow, not Shadow to Mephiles), and the stuff about Shadow's dark side probably just refers to the fact that Mephiles entered Shadow's shadow to assume his form, maybe also acquiring some of his attributes. If you just switch the position of the names and change a word or two it works:

At the time of the Soleanna experiment ten years ago, Shadow was warped into the past and he was sealed away by him in that wand. This is why he harbors Shadow such deep resentment. He was made from Shadow's shadow, and is fueled by his burning desire as the ultimate life-form.

Here's the Japanese text if anyone wants to compare.

ソラリスの「意志」である、精神生命体。
イブリースと統合し、ソラリスに「戻る」為に、エリスの封印を破ることを目論むと同時に、カオスエメラルドを集めている。
１０年前のソレアナ研究所の事故の時に、過去にワープしてきたシャドウによって、カプセルに封印されている。そのため、シャドウに個人的恨みも持っている。実体化する際に、シャドウの「影」を利用したのも、半分はそれが理由（もう半分は、シャドウが究極生命体だから、その力を欲したため）

[Dash]

Aw... did they really make the Babylonians decedents of aliens? I really liked they idea that they were decedents of genies, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. Can't we have magic for magic's sake anymore?

And has anyone tried holding down the left mouse button on a subject in this thing and moving? Whee! I can drag stuff=D

[Neo]

...why did you keep asking then?

One thing is caring about the game's plot. The other is caring about whether or not my memory is playing tricks with me. Which it obviously is.

[Dr. Watson]

Im so very, very glad i did'nt check this forum for about 24 hours after stating those trivia tid-bits, cause then i might have actually had to search the internets for proof of them myself. Eternal, strawberry flavored thanks to the guys who did it for me (those two maracas represent a heart).

Anyway, crazy shit about dead chaos babies and underdeveloped boobage aside, i must say it fascinates me how complex some parts of the Sonic universe really is, such as the backstories for the various islands that the early games took place in. I think Sega should atleast partly focus the newer games stories on the lore of places like South Island, Westside Island, and the Special Zone, instead with coming up with all this new bullshit about islamic demons and outer space babylonians..

[Frieza2000]

I'd like to see an entry, or at least a mention, of the sacred barrier that kept the Knuckles tribe from getting to the emerald altar for a while. I don't have the quotes, but I think there's two echidnas in Tails's and Knuckles's flashbacks that talk about it. It's significant in that (I think) it's implied that the Chao themselves created it, suggesting that the cute little guys hold secrets even deeper than the echidna civilization that they destroyed.

And calling Chaos a mutant was something one of us started. The translation says he's "Chao's transformation."

[The Doc]

I'd like to see an entry, or at least a mention, of the sacred barrier that kept the Knuckles tribe from getting to the emerald altar for a while. I don't have the quotes, but I think there's two echidnas in Tails's and Knuckles's flashbacks that talk about it. It's significant in that (I think) it's implied that the Chao themselves created it, suggesting that the cute little guys hold secrets even deeper than the echidna civilization that they destroyed.

And calling Chaos a mutant was something one of us started. The translation says he's "Chao's transformation."

At first, I thought that a Chao had come in direct contact with the Emeralds, thus transforming it into Chaos. However, that doesn't make sense since Chaos himself can transform with direct contact with the Emeralds.

Perhaps that's where the Super Emeralds come into play.

It's a wild jump, but hear me out. In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the Chaos Emeralds transform into the Super Emeralds only after they're (the Chaos Emeralds) are collected. It's perhaps possible that, after one particular Chao was affected by the seven Chaos Emeralds and transformed into Chaos, it somehow triggered the transformation from the Chaos Emeralds into the Super Emeralds. And since before Perfect Chaos, the Chaos Emeralds didn't have a name (they were just known as the Emeralds), maybe the Super Emeralds of the ancient civilization are the Chaos Emeralds of today, which is why today's version of Chaos Emeralds look like the original Super Emerald design.


















































Or, y'know......not.

[Frieza2000]

A more credible explanation can be found in the events of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. When the Chaos Emeralds are brought to Hidden Palace they change from a hexagon shape into the body-sized diamond shaped Super Emeralds. In later games, the Emeralds revert back to their original name, but still retain their diamond shape despite being hand-sized. Hence, the transformation in Hidden Palace could have had a permanent effect on the shape of the Emeralds, but as the gems are no longer at the shrine, they are unable to preserve their body-sized proportions. This theory is partly supported by the Mega Collection Strategy Guide, which states that the Master Emerald powered-up the Chaos Emeralds.

In the past scenes of Sonic Adventure, the Chaos Emeralds are diamond-shaped and body-sized on the shrine, but shrink to hand-sized when Chaos attacks. Therefore, it could be possible that sometime after the attack, an event occurred which caused the Chaos Emeralds to transform from a diamond to a hexagon shape.



The Lost World stage contains a mural depicting the destruction of city by Chaos. This is a different attack from the one shown in the flash backs of Super Sonic’s adventure, as Chaos is in his perfect form [huh? The beastly roar from the sky clearly implied that the emeralds transformed him into Perfect Chaos]. Surrounding the mural are hexagon shaped Chaos Emeralds. While this mural is hardly definite evidence of the proposed theory, it could suggest that a possible shape transformation may have occurred after Perfect Chaos attacked.

Either the Master or Chaos emeralds were more than likely involved in the creation of Chaos, but more than that we can only guess.

[The Doc]

But that doesn't explain why, in Sonic Adventure 2, Knuckles is able to literally hold the Master Emerald in one hand when all other games prove that the Master Emerald is twice his body size.

[K2J]

I think the theory is that it shrinks the further it is from the shrine. In space, it would be hand-sized.

[G.Silver]

That produces a problem though! The Master Emerald can never really be returned to the shrine then, because the closer it gets the bigger it gets. Ultimately you'd be just inches away but the emerald wouldn't budge, and Eggman would come and shatter it again. Knuckles' existence must be some kind of eternal torment.

[Ritz]

In Chronicles, the Master Emerald is still fun-sized, despite being situated directly on the altar.

[DackAttac]

In that SA2 scene, though, it seems like Knuckles literally pulls it out of his ass, as it expands from pea-size to hand-size. Given all the other whack-ass shit these gems can do, can we assume they can change size based on the whims of those holding it?

[Frieza2000]

They all have space folding gloves. It's clearly the operating principle behind Sonic's Magic Hands upgrade.

[Green Gibbon!]

THIS SHIT IS DEEP

[The Doc]

We must all be either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid. Why can't we ever just agree that it's a fucking VIDEO GAME, thus the programmers can do whatever the hell they want to advance the plot?

[P.P.A.]

We must all be either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid. Why can't we ever just agree that it's a fucking VIDEO GAME, thus the programmers can do whatever the hell they want to advance the plot?

Because there are scientists trying to find out what's smaller than a proton and because there are philosophers wondering how the universe came to exist in the first place.

[The Doc]

We must all be either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid. Why can't we ever just agree that it's a fucking VIDEO GAME, thus the programmers can do whatever the hell they want to advance the plot?

Because there are scientists trying to find out what's smaller than a proton and because there are philosophers wondering how the universe came to exist in the first place.

That's just you fruity German scientists.

[Frieza2000]

I have three translations of the Sonic 1 manual, and the most recent one makes no mention of the dimensional torsion and suggests South Island's movement is caused by the emeralds. These I know one of these is by Gsilv and don't know who's responsible for the other. Can anyone speak on which is more accurate?

Also, since South Island is an island with a circular movement, the island started forming a interdimensional torsion in which the Chaos Emeralds wander.

Since South Island is constantly drifting throughout the ocean, it has formed an interdimensional torsion in which the Chaos Emeralds wander endlessly.

However, nobody knows exactly how to get ahold of these emeralds. At the same time, though, they do say that the reason why South Island is always moving is because the emeralds are somewhere inside the island's hazy depths.

[G.Silver]

Make me pull out my Japanese manual again will you?

Ah, that smell! xD

Is the middle one of those mine? I don't have it anymore, but I'm still reading the meaning pretty much the same, though I'm thinking I borrowed a lot from Mary's because I liked the sound of it. Here's the line in Japanese:

それというのも、　このサウスアイランドは動き回っている島で、カオスエメラルドは島の作り出す歪みの中に存在するからだ。

As cleanly and without embellishment as I can do it: "The reason (that no one knows how to obtain them) is because the Chaos Emeralds exist within the warp created by the island's circular motion."

The third translation is very similar to what GG! based his storyline in the Museum on, actually. To my reading though, there's no indication of "hazy depths," and nothing to suggest a reason for the circular movement, so I don't know how this guy came to his conclusion.

[Frieza2000]

If it's not the third one then the middle must be yours; I wasn't concerned with who did it when I copied it. A Google search reveals that the last one is by SamIAm and is Big Smile's translation of choice. I trust your reading more though. Thanks!