Spider-Man 3 Venom artwork

Post by **Esrever** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:31 am

It doesn't matter if organic webbing makes sense or not. The mechanical web shooters were just cooler! Peter was smart enough to build and maintain them himself, not to mention to develop different kinds of webbing in the lab. It really paired well with the whole Peter-is-a-scientist thing.

Also, if you give him organic shooters, you really have to wonder where exactly all that webbing is coming from. Yuck! Nothing about Spider-man should gross you out, he's not that kind of character.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:38 am

Yah, it's pretty much the gross-out factor for me. It's like having Batman vomit up living bats that solidify into boomerangs as opposed to just making the damn things himself.

Hybrid · Post by **Hybrid** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:20 am

Zeta wrote:Fantasy and Science Fiction aren't automatically allowed to have no internal logic, even if they don't abide by the rules of reality.

Yes, but they do tend to follow their own set of logic at least. For example, Peter has a lot of spider-y abilities but his form has not changed to accomodate them. There's no reason to assume that his webbing power would be any different.

I'm not arguing that his man-made web shooters weren't cooler, just that trying to call them unrealistic (as much of the conversation had done up to that point) is missing the point somewhat.

cjmcray · Post by **cjmcray** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:30 am

Personally, I don't really find a gross factor in Peter's web shooting. It makes more sense to me that if he has every other spider-related power, he should also have the ability to shoot webs.

I think one of the reasons it was ditched in the film, was becuase

a) they would have to drag down the story to show how Peter invented web-shooters

and

b) it would make Peter seem less like an everyman that anyone could relate to, and more like some inventor who builds crazy gadgets.

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:43 am

Hybrid wrote:I'm not arguing that his man-made web shooters weren't cooler, just that trying to call them unrealistic (as much of the conversation had done up to that point) is missing the point somewhat.

They're both unrealistic, but the biological webs are the more unrealistic and take a lot away from the mythos without adding anything of substance.

cjmcray wrote:a) they would have to drag down the story to show how Peter invented web-shooters

Take away the cafeteria and "Shazam!" scenes in the first movie and there's more than enough time.

cjmcray wrote:b) it would make Peter seem less like an everyman that anyone could relate to, and more like some inventor who builds crazy gadgets.

Peter was never just an everyman, he was the school nerd, a scientist, a bright young mind. People had related to the scientist Peter Parker well enough for 40 years, it's absolute arrogance to think that it needed changing.

It's not only faulty logic, it's inconsistent. In Spider-Man 2 we're supposed to believe that Peter could spot a design flaw that not even Otto Octavius noticed. He's smart enough to do that, but not smart enough to create his own webshooters or spider tracers?

He also had the ability to create a wardrobe of high quality costumes that cost one of the world's largest movie studios tens of thousands of dollars to create?

Post by **Popcorn** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:15 pm

Segaholic2 wrote:What, so do you just hate all current Spider-Man comics because of the organic webshooting?

The comics introduced organic webshooting? How did that work exactly? I haven't read them in a few years.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:55 pm

The comics introduced organic webshooting? How did that work exactly? I haven't read them in a few years.

Peter discovers that he didn't get his powers from a radioactive Spider bite. He's actually the latest in a long line of mystical heroes who channel the spider god's magic spirit. When one dies, another gets the magical spider powers. He gets into a fight with a vampire who can only feed on people with animal powers and is savagely beaten and loses an eye. Near death, he channels the magical power of the mystical spider god and wraps himself in a cocoon, emerging with organic webbing, his eye repaired, night vision, regenerative powers, and poison fangs that pop out of his hands to form Wolverine-like claws.

It was even stupider than it sounds.

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:10 pm

Actually, the organic webs were introduced in the story that ran through Spectacular Spider-Man vol 2 #17-20 just a year earlier. Spider-Man mutated into a giant spider, died, was reborn and crawled out of his own corpse and discovered he could shoot webs from his wrists (a handy coincidence!) and communicate with insects telepaphically. Peter then comments that spiders aren't even insects. Seriously.

Yes, they told two almost identical stories twice within the span of two years.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:18 pm

And the repeated story wasn't even that good.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:56 pm

And that's the sort of "stay true to the source material!" we're all supposed to revere? Yipe.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:15 pm

They got John Michael Straczynski to write the Spider titles. The problem is, Straczynski is fantasy oriented and can't write scifi. So instead of passing on the project or trying to write scifi, he just decided to change every aspect of Spiderman into fantasy. Instead of adapting to the character and the world, he forced the characters and world to adapt to HIM - the sign of an awful comics writer. He's recently left, thank god, to write Thor - where he'll actuall fit the fuck in. But his tenure on Spiderman was much like Bush's presidency. Create a whole fuckload of crazy problems and leave the next guy to sort it all out.

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:54 pm

It was all just a dream!

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:55 pm

He's recently left, thank god, to write Thor - where he'll actuall fit the fuck in.

I wouldn't count on it. Did you see that clusterfuck Doctor Strange mini-series he did?

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:26 pm

Meh. Doctor Strange is supposed to be weird an nonsensical. That's the appeal of the character.

Yami CJMErl · Post by **Yami CJMErl** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:32 pm

Zeta wrote:It's like having Batman vomit up living bats that solidify into boomerangs as opposed to just making the damn things himself.

I'd totally pay money to see that.

Arcade · Post by **Arcade** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:12 pm

Hey the name says it doc STRANGE!!!...

And have you read Batman Nosferatu?

Post by **Popcorn** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:26 pm

Zeta wrote:
The comics introduced organic webshooting? How did that work exactly? I haven't read them in a few years.
Peter discovers that he didn't get his powers from a radioactive Spider bite. He's actually the latest in a long line of mystical heroes who channel the spider god's magic spirit. When one dies, another gets the magical spider powers. He gets into a fight with a vampire who can only feed on people with animal powers and is savagely beaten and loses an eye. Near death, he channels the magical power of the mystical spider god and wraps himself in a cocoon, emerging with organic webbing, his eye repaired, night vision, regenerative powers, and poison fangs that pop out of his hands to form Wolverine-like claws.

It was even stupider than it sounds.

Jesus.

Post by **Esrever** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:40 pm

And Zeta left out the best part! After Morlun rips out Peter Parker's eye... he EATS IT.

Kids love Spider-man!

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:59 pm

How exactly does a vampire who can only eat people with animal superpowers survive for so long? Are there really that many porcupine men and frog women running around? Morlun is one of the stupidest fucking concepts ever.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:00 pm

Peter's eye was eaten? How did he get it back?

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:39 pm

Near death, he channels the magical power of the mystical spider god and wraps himself in a cocoon, emerging with organic webbing, his eye repaired, night vision, regenerative powers, and poison fangs that pop out of his hands to form Wolverine-like claws.

Black Rook · Post by **Black Rook** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:43 pm

Zeta wrote:Are there really that many frog women running around?

oh god i hope sooooo.....

So, how did they fix all of this? Or did they not fix it at all? I mean, Nightcrawler's dad is Mutant Satan, and even though nobody ever brings it up anymore, I don't think anyone took the time to retcon that horseshit away.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:28 am

It's still unfixed. The writers just switched teams, and it looks like they're trying to get everything back to the status quo slowly - Brock is becoming Venom again for instance.

WW · Post by WW » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:51 am

Zeta wrote:Are there really that many frog women running around?

I found three.

j-man · Post by **j-man** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:03 pm

is this battletoads