You Had to Open Your Big Mouth

[G.Silver]

Most of the art is standard fare, but the fourth and fifth panel look like the work of our very own Dubba-You-Bee. Was he doing *cough* breakdowns on that book, or is someone at Archie HQ ripping him off a little?

I noticed that too (also whenever the Dark Legion appears), but I didn't want to implicate him in those first couple panels, which are very un-WB-like.

So like, what's with the drool?

[Yami CJMErl]

He was thinking about chili dogs while fighting the Legion?

[Dasher]

Ah spaz the only thing i like about those comics.

[MiraiTails]

While we're talking about the Archie comics, have the stories ever been good, by any definition? I have every issue of the regular series, but I can't be bothered to actually read it.

Edit: Before anyone asks - yes, I realize it's a waste of money to buy the comics and not read them.

[Crowbar]

Wow, I remember Spaz art being really dynamic and interesting. Better than any of the junk I ever saw from the inside pages for a very long time.
What the fuck happened?

[Kogen]

While we're talking about the Archie comics, have the stories ever been good, by any definition? I have every issue of the regular series, but I can't be bothered to actually read it.

Edit: Before anyone asks - yes, I realize it's a waste of money to buy the comics and not read them.

Well it could be worse. You might have been buying all the games at full price.

[Senbei]

Most of the art is standard fare, but the fourth and fifth panel look like the work of our very own Dubba-You-Bee. Was he doing *cough* breakdowns on that book, or is someone at Archie HQ ripping him off a little?

The featured artist, Fry, was drawing silly expressions long before before WB came on, but they tended to be more anime-inspired. So, maybe.

(Umm, actually, maybe ignore #11 and #12.)

Hahahaha.

[CM August]

Wow, the classic Sega airbrushed style is hilariously inappropriate in that context. But hey, that's what people want the comic to do now right? To ape the style of the games? They probably asked Spaz to draw it like that.

I suppose a franchise this divided can't avoid rampant schizophrenia, but Archie seems to take any opportunity.

[Crazy Penguin]

Wow, the classic Sega airbrushed style is hilariously inappropriate in that context. But hey, that's what people want the comic to do now right? To ape the style of the games? They probably asked Spaz to draw it like that.

I seriously doubt Archie or the Sega licensing department know enough about the property to specifically request covers homaging the Japanese artwork that ended up on the Sonic screensaver over a decade ago. Spaz is a fan, he's having fun with it whilst maintaining a uniform look for the reprints. He did some covers with Sonic Battle style artwork a few years ago, he's done a few in the recognisable Uekawa style and all 38 Sonic X covers he drew matched the promotional art style to a tee.

I get what people are saying though. I really miss the Spaz who drew covers like #82 and #85 as well: http://archive.sonic-hq.net/newsite/com ... 0/index.80

But then I look at his Sonic X covers, and they certainly don't have the same energy, and that's definitely from striving to be as "on-model" as possible, but in terms of composition, consistency, clarity, originality and story telling they're the best of his whole career.

It's pretty common for artists (and not just the kind who draw) to try different things and improve significantly on a technical level, whilst their long-time fans want them to go back to the more raw and unrefined stuff that drew their attention in the first place.

But yeah, #206's cover kinda sucks, don't know what that's all about.

Most of the art is standard fare, but the fourth and fifth panel look like the work of our very own Dubba-You-Bee. Was he doing *cough* breakdowns on that book, or is someone at Archie HQ ripping him off a little?

I noticed that too (also whenever the Dark Legion appears), but I didn't want to implicate him in those first couple panels, which are very un-WB-like.

I don't know how much he's influenced by WB's art style, but I do know that WB is a fan of his work. WB definitely left his stamp on the Dark Legion, but his greatest contribution to the comic was Dr Finitevus, a villain I doubt Flynn and Yardley would have bothered to bring back if not for the excellent character design. http://archiesonic.wikia.com/wiki/Finitevus

[CM August]

Holy Jesus. If that's excellent character design, I'm throwing away my artbooks.

[Crazy Penguin]

Given the guidelines of "evil echidna", I'd say it's pretty damn good, especially given the generally atrocious designs the 500000 superfluous echidnas Ken Penders introduced received.

[CM August]

Spaz designed most of those echidnas. Oops!

In addition to a tacky design, the Finitevus character itself is banal. Hm, an albino echidna doctor/mad scientist. Haven't heard that one before. Corrupted with a Chaos Syphon? Yeah, they tread new ground with this one.

... Still, looking through that character profile... you know, if there's one thing I can respect Ken Penders for, it's that the Knuckles series was the best time I ever had with Archie Sonic. Nothing like the games (holy shit, stop the presses!), but carved out its own impressive niche that honestly had far more scope than the Sonic series ever had. So what does the new writer do once Ken's out the door? Slaughters almost all the echidnas in holy-fuck-you're-kidding Nazi Death Camp fashion, with this Finitevus character 'revealed' as playing a big hand himself, who then proceeds to make bitches out of every surviving character. Classy.

[Crowbar]

I was under the impression that the echidnas spent most of the time sitting around, reminiscing about how awesome their civilisation was, going "Not our problem!" in response to any actual issues, and basically being a big race of Ken Penders' own personal Mary-Sues.

This is just what I've heard, though.

[Radrappy]

so, a new mary-sue killing off previously established mary-sues?


It always bugged me how the Archie authors felt so inclined as to give Sonic a love life (probably in the tradition of the atrocious SATAM experience). I really have no desire to find out who sonic's or knuckles's current romantic interest is and I shudder to think there are actually kids out there that give a hoot. It just feels so contrary to the spirit of the games where when faced with the issue, sonic does what he does best and runs the fuck away.

edit : nice crowbar. You beat me to the mary sue reference by a minute.

[CM August]

The term Mary Sue barely even makes sense in that context. It's not like their self-important culture was hailed as perfect or even correct, what's what the Dark Legion and Dingo conflicts were all about. Knuckles may ponder on which side's actually being a bigger dick, but he's still the one who saves everyone's asses. I don't see how horrifyingly bad that was compared to the Sega version, where they're largely a band of marauding fuckheads who get dusted off the earth. Which is fine too, but only lent itself to one story. It certainly didn't give Knuckles any greater purpose, with his appearance in later titles increasingly superfluous. I know which version I was more interested in reading about.

[Crazy Penguin]

Sonic's love life issues were written out of the series shortly after Ian Flynn started writing. He tied up the existing loose ends (the above scanned page for example) and he's just been single since. Knuckles still has a girlfriend, and Rouge's interest in Knuckles is about par with the games and Sonic X. Amy of course, is Amy.

Basically, all of the soap opera elements have been dropped in favour of action and adventure. The character drama supports the action, rather than vice versa.

The problem I always had with Ken Penders' take on Knuckles was that he didn't play the cards he was dealt. At the time there wasn't a whole lot to Knuckles. He was the last of his race and he lived on an island in the sky protecting magical gems. It was a simple but compelling high concept ripe with possibilities.

Then the first thing Penders did was decide that Knuckles isn't the last of his race and that there are other people who'll protect the emeralds. Turns out his parents are alive, and his grandparents, and his cousins, and his second cousins twice removed, and their next door neighbours, and their in-laws. The echidnas went from extinct barring one to having more named characters than any other animal in the series. Penders took the ultimate introverted lone wolf character and turned his continuing adventures into an ensemble cast political drama. The action was still there, but Knuckles was suddenly surrounded by heroes and villains who could do everything he could but better.

It's like if Ken Penders was given Batman he'd bring Bruce's parents back to life and concentrate on the corporate affairs of Wayne Enterprises, occassionally letting Batman hang out with a brotherhood of more badass cyborg Batmen.

[CM August]

Unless 'tying up loose ends' stands for 'dredging up long-disused characters nobody was worried about and killing them off in atrociously heavy-handed fashion', I'd have to disagree. Or better yet, reviving old bit-players and giving them a major role, even if they appeared in five panels of a single issue over a decade ago. I'm sure everyone was clamoring to see more of Feist or the Iron Queen, who's collective appearance totaled about six pages. Now they're owner of the Chaos Emeralds and main freaking series villain, respectively.

Speaking of loose ends, how about Mammoth Mogul? The book was closed on him quite neatly before Ian Flynn even turned up. But he has a thing for Mogul, so... a few dead gods, flunkies, several thousand Mobians and a handful of retcons later he's happily running a casino. Cleaning up the continuity indeed!

The problem I always had with Ken Penders' take on Knuckles was that he didn't play the cards he was dealt.

Yeah, it was totally different from the games. The bastard! So there's only one thing for an irate fanboy to do: bulldoze and piss on everything this writer built. To abuse TVtropes, Ian's a sterling example of Running The Asylum, particularly Armed With Canon.

[Crazy Penguin]

All Flynn really did with the echidnas was follow up on what Karl Bollers started in "Return to Angel Island".

As for the Iron Queen, why not bring her back? You don't need to have read her original story to understand the new story. Why introduce a brand new character when there's an existing one who already fits the required role? A frequent and accurate criticism towards the comic has been that it has too many characters, so Flynn intentionally decided to refrain from introducing any more and instead work on getting the most out of the characters that are already there.

[Opa-Opa]

My god, you guys read Sonic comics? Geeks.

Anyway, what Penguin said about Penders and Knuckles is exactely how I felt about it. Plus, they all have hideous names. The Knuckles series also had horrible art. I hate when the characters are drawn too humanized, with huge, thick legs and torso. Reminds me of how I used to draw Sonic when I was a 6.

I've always liked best UK's Sonic the Comic. The art and the characterization of game elements were near perfect.

[Crazy Penguin]

Sonic the Comic did a great job with the game elements up to and including Sonic & Knuckles, then it went off on its own direction save for its loose integration of Chaotix and Sonic 3D (which was more faithful, since there was so little to it to begin with). In the early days they did a very good job of getting material out of Zones from the games. It shows a nice level of professionalism how accurate Richard Elson could get the aesthetics, despite not particularly caring for the games themselves.

[CM August]

Sonic the Comic is a different beast altogether, it was made to resemble the then-official game plotline from day one. Archie meanwhile was a loose adaptation of the cartoon show, a completely different setting/history/characters/whatever. Whenever any idiot tries to jam the games into that round hole you end up with abombinations like the Sonic Adventure adaptation. Or to use a more recent example, giving Charmy brain damage so he behaves like the six-year old from the games.

All Flynn really did with the echidnas was follow up on what Karl Bollers started in "Return to Angel Island".

Karl began that story arc, but it was Ian that declared the death count. And there's nothing logical about Dr. Finitevus turning Knuckles into the new Enerjak to 'follow up', besides fanboyish pandering of course. Next you'll be saying Mogul's return was a perfectly reasonable decision worthy of a dozen issues of stories, or god forbid, this monstrosity:

[j-man]

You know he's a bad guy because he's wearing a leather jacket.

Also they completely fucked up a very simple quote from Evil Dead.

[Neo]

Or to use a more recent example, giving Charmy brain damage so he behaves like the six-year old from the games.

Are you serious.

[Shadow Hog]

In Archie's defense, though, it didn't have Mick McMahon.

Dear God, I hated his art. The other artists were pretty good (even if I can only really remember Richard Elson - the name "Nigel Kitching" also comes to mind, but I thought he was just a writer), but his was just deplorable. Flat-shaded, used the god-awful, off-model European boxart for Sonic 3D as the official model for Sonic's face (and it looked just as horrid), apparently didn't understand the defintion of "furries" (here's a hint: they're more than a human being, complete with knobby knees and elbows on bloody everyone, with an arbitrary animal head), and... ugh.

Apparently his work for Judge Dredd was far better, but from what little I've seen of it, I can't say as I'm particularly enthused by it, either.

[Yami CJMErl]

Or to use a more recent example, giving Charmy brain damage so he behaves like the six-year old from the games.

Are you serious.

Never mind the fact that they decided to turn "PINGAS" into an Ascended Meme an issue or two back.