What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

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cjmcray
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by cjmcray »

Eserver wrote:There's only one explanation for why Sonic X's animation was frequently so much worse than those shows -- and it's the same reason why previous Sonic shows were animated by Dic (quite possibly THE worst studio in TV animation at the time).
If there is one thing I will NOT tolerate, Eserver, its slander against DiC.

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DiC was a very talented kids cartoon company. The reason for the Sonic toon suckage was mostly becuase the games lacked any real story at the time.

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Ngangbius
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Ngangbius »

No, I'm with Eserver with DIC's animation quality. High quality animation for them was rare and most of the stuff they put out was mediocre to just plain terrible. That's probably why they were constantly hired to animate cartoons from established francises like Mario, Sonic, the familar video game characters from Captian N, etc. and they were usually off-model from the original source(and sometimes for worse). For example, in their version of Heathcliff which could be considered one of their better animated toons, why did Iggy's design on that show greatly differed than his original one?

Most of the crap from DiC I used to watch when I was bored as a kid, I wouldn't want to bother watching again(yes, even Inspector Gadget sucked), whereas I woudn't mind catching an episode of Ducktales--even if the series is watered down from Carl Barks's interpretation of Disney's Duck Universe.

My point still stands, you won't see a new Sonic cartoon directed by Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, or any other talented person in this field. No, Sega will go cheap like folks who are Richard Kuta-quality. XD

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Locit »

Esrever wrote: AND that cool Animaniacs-esque animated short on the Sonic Jam disc.
I would probably kill a man if it meant I could see the conclusion to that thing.

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Crazy Penguin
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Every Sonic cartoon has made the mistake of making original characters part of the core cast. The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog could be considered an exception to this rule, but even then they changed the designs of all the villains.

All of DiC's Sonic cartoons pretty much did their own thing and slapped Sonic's face on it.

Sonic X was generally accurate in terms of character designs, personalities (though Eggman was played for humour too often for my tastes) and other such details but played up the ensemble cast element and shoe-horned in the awkward "stranger in a strange world" angle.

The Sonic OVA two-parter was the opposite of Sonic X in many ways. It got a lot of the details completely wrong (Knuckles, South Island etc) but the tone was mostly right, very fast moving and action driven with Sonic always in the spotlight.

Tails was particularly well handled, they utilised the boy genius aspect of his persona but didn't overlook the fact that this little kid is Sonic's sidekick and joins him on his adventures. With the possible exception of Sonic Advance 3 none of the games have gotten this part right since Sonic Adventure.

I'm still of the opinion that an animated Sonic would work best as a series of action driven short story music videos though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qdCEPFz4w

Imagine that kind of thing with Sonic and a wide variety of music.

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Esrever
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Esrever »

Man, if those four shows are supposed to be examples of DiC's good work, then I rest my case! (Although Gadget, despite being produced by DiC, was actually animated by TMS as well.)

I know it's easy to look back on these cartoons fondly through the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, but on a purely technical and artist level they are painfully inept.

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Dr. Watson
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Dr. Watson »

Esrever wrote: I know it's easy to look back on these cartoons fondly through the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, but on a purely technical and artist level they are painfully inept.
Yeah well, that's pretty much true regarding all American 80's cartoons. Even Thundercats is, when looking back at it as an adult, a pain for the eyes and an even worse pain for the brain. Now 90's cartoons on the other hand...

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by G.Silver »

Jesus, Thundercats was painful to me even then. And I was like, 6. I think Inspector Gadget, at its very core, though, is a good thing no matter how my glasses tint it.

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Ngangbius »

Dr. Watson wrote:Yeah well, that's pretty much true regarding all American 80's cartoons. Even Thundercats is, when looking back at it as an adult, a pain for the eyes and an even worse pain for the brain. Now 90's cartoons on the other hand...
And yet thousands of man-children call G.I. Joe the pinacle of great animation for children while slaming todays animated shows claiming kids have it rough nowadays on good shows.

Other than Brad Bird's Family Dog short that aired on NBC's Amazing Stories, I would like to think that Disney's imput was the high point of 80's television animation. Though the cartoons that aired in 70's were really worse.

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Tsuyoshi-kun »

The 1970s and 1980s were the darkest times for animation, and to this day I'll never understand the appeal and cries for nostalgia for augmented commercial they called "television shows" along the likes of Transformers, G.I. Joe, Thundercats, and anything with Scooby-Doo involved (except maybe the original show and Laff-a-Lympics) the current generation seems to have. Also, Inspector Gadget is probably the only good show DiC made themselves the company has ever slapped their name on. Though the company at least had some thread of credibility (making low-budget cartoons during a depressing, low-standard time era must've been rough on them) until they started Captain Planet. At least they didn't go the Hanna-Barbera route and turn all their characters into kid versions of themselves until the mid-90s.

Anyways, back on topic. I agree with Crazy Penguin that doing Sonic as a series of music video shorts would be a good idea, but so would 5 to 6-minute shorts involving the principal cast, whether played out for humor or otherwise. Even AoSTH, the only Sonic series I can honestly say I liked, has pacing problems with having to take a plot that can be summed up in 12 seconds and expanding it to 21 minutes. Imagine what would it be like to cut all the filler and get to the point with Sonic animated shorts.

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CM August
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by CM August »

I enjoyed the first two American Sonic cartoons, but the animation quality just went up and down. Something consistently on the level of Sonic JAM's animated short would be great. Regardless, I'd rather not see another show until Sega takes Sonic's world in a half-decent direction.

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Arcade »

What if we stabbed Sega with a knife thirteen times?

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by RocketPunch »

The problem with all the Sonic cartoons (save for the OVA, which was off in its own world) was that they all revolved around some corny gimmick. From the ~*aLtErNaTe DiMeNsIoN*~ in Sonic X to whatever the hell Sonic Underground was trying to portray, they all just take the Sonic brand and slap it on whatever they think will attract the elementary school crowd. I think a Sonic cartoon could easily work if the producers would just take a look at the (good) games, find what makes them click, and translate that to the tiny screen, but of course that would require a budget and the notion that Sonic could actually appeal to people above the age of 7.

My only worry is that I'd have to sit through 21 minutes of dialogue. It could be tolerable, if handled properly, but currently I'm just imagining an entire episode of basically what we get from the game cutscenes... not a pretty picture. "Awww yeah! This is happening!" Yikes.

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Dr. Watson
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Dr. Watson »

I am honestly befuddled by why the dialogue in Sonic games is so consistently horrible. I mean, it's not like it's the same people who has written the dialoge for every single Sonic game since Sonic Adventure, yet all games have exactly the same kind of cheesy, moronic lines, not to mention horrible voice acting. In an era where games like Jak and Daxter, Super Paper Mario and most of Rares output have proven that even platformers can have well written and well acted dialogue, it is a true mystery why your average conversation in a Sonic game still usually goes something like:

Sonic: "We should destroy that robot!"
Tails: "Lets destroy that robot!"
Knuckles: "Dont worry, i'll destroy that robot!"

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Dasher »

Just a little something.
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Arcade
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Arcade »

Tails: "Sonic, we should destroy that robot!"
Sonic: "We should? Why?"
Tails: "Because we are the heroes?"
Knuckles: "That robot has a Master emerald piece?"
Tails: "No... But..."
Knuckles: "Then I’m out of here!. OH my precious master emerald,! Soon we will be together my beauty, oh yes..."

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Radrappy »

are we roleplaying again?

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Post by Isuka »

Arcade wrote:beauty
That's a bannable offense in any LotR fan community.

And sincerely, I can't come with nigh a single line of worthy dialogue for a Sonic game. I mean, Insomniac didn't care with both Spyro and Ratchet, they just threw random nonsense and went ahead with the gaming itself, so unless someone comes up with his or her own concept of the Sonic universe I don't see much room for "game-to-TV canon" adaptions or anything like that.

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Arcade »

Game to Tv was the second half of Sonic X, They did Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Battle. Sonic Battle was just about Cream turning into a godness and beating the crap out of “Elmer”. No Sonic cartoon will be good if it’s set on space, or the human world, or if it has wizards, dragons and a medieval setting. SatAM was good for only being based o the first two games, until they decided to include wizards and dragons. The Ovas are set in its own Sonic world, the only new ch<racters are a catgirl(For comical purposes) and the president, plus it was based in Sonic vs Super “Roborobotnik” and Sonic vs Metal Sonic, of course it was good.

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by j-man »

Arcade wrote:SatAM was good for only being based on the first two game
Which version of SatAM did you watch?

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Tsuyoshi-kun »

I'll never understand Sonic fans' obsession over the OVA series. The animation was laughable, Sonic looks like he was drawn by a Japanese fan artist, the music was lame and unfitting, the dragged-out fight between Sonic and Metal Sonic felt like it was scripted by Dragon Ball Z writers, the new characters were annoying and unnecessary to the plot, and they gave Knuckles a freakin' hat, along with the ability to fly (huh?). About the only bright spots I can think of is that it was straight and to the point, and that there were some funny parts here and there.

Also Arcade, I don't understood why a Sonic animated series can't take place in space or with people in it, considering how many games have had those two elements in them in the past.
j-man wrote:
Arcade wrote:SatAM was good for only being based on the first two game
Which version of SatAM did you watch?
He's probably referring to the fact that all of Sonic's animal friends are based on ones from the first two Sonic games. That's funny, though, because I don't remember a half-robotic bunny or a walrus with tools in any Sonic game I've ever played (Spinball aside).

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Ngangbius »

Tsuyoshi-kun wrote:I'll never understand Sonic fans' obsession over the OVA series.
Because it was a relative gold mine compared to the other shit?

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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by G.Silver »

I don't understand why people DON'T like it. I actually like the characters they introduced, probably because they exist only to further the plot and enhance the world just a bit, they don't hog the spotlight or change what Sonic is "about."

Also, Knuckles with the hat = freakin' sweet.

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Post by Isuka »

It's pretty bloody obvious that the hat gave Knuckles arcane flying powers.
That explains everything.

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Hybrid
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Hybrid »

It just kind of dawned on me that he had the hat because he's an Australian animal.

Dunno how I missed that.

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Dasher
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Re: What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

Post by Dasher »

Knuckles is a rastaustralian.

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