Drop the Hero

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:00 am

I want Sonic Heroes. Unfortunately I lack everything required to get it.

Please, do not try to convince me not to play it. I want to.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:27 am

To be honest, I don't think it's as bad as everyone says. People just like to bitch a lot.

Rlan · Post by **Rlan** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:38 am

I'll agree with the PS2 version of the game, from what I played from the demo, it's HORRIBLE.

I've got the JPN Gamecube version and loved playing through it, finding everything, and beating it again. The only thing I hated was those Egg-Hammers with the hats, they slowed the game down to a halt. The story itself is shit, but gameplay was it's really good IMO.

But the PS2 demo was choppy, almost unplayable, and the EggPawns popped up from nowhere very close to you, blech.

Titan · Post by **Titan** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:56 am

Green Gibbon! wrote:
The Prima guide
That must only be the European one. I've got the US one and it's one of the most carelessly schlocked together strategy guides I've ever seen. Either it must've been written in exactly two days or the author was paid about $20 for the whole book. Otherwise, it's inexcusably bad, and the enemy information you posted is nowhere to be found in it.

How very odd. The European one is very detailed indeed =S

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:52 pm

Make that later today I'll get those...

Cool, thanks. Now I just have to wait on Smile's guide.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:18 pm

Rlan wrote:I'll agree with the PS2 version of the game, from what I played from the demo, it's HORRIBLE.

I've got the JPN Gamecube version and loved playing through it, finding everything, and beating it again. The only thing I hated was those Egg-Hammers with the hats, they slowed the game down to a halt. The story itself is shit, but gameplay was it's really good IMO.

But the PS2 demo was choppy, almost unplayable, and the EggPawns popped up from nowhere very close to you, blech.

The gameplay itself wasn't terrible, it really didn't feel like Sonic, but it was terrible. It was all the other shit like bottomless pits that caused cheap deaths that sucked. The bad blew away the good. Plus I didn't buy a Sonic game for that kind of gameplay. I still say the team system worked better than I ever thought it could though.

WhoopA · Post by **WhoopA** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:15 pm

Agreed. It's not a bad game, but it's horrid for a Sonic game.

Post by **Squirrelknight** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:47 pm

No, it is actually a bad game. It's also a horrid Sonic game at the same time.

I'll admit, there were moments where everything "clicked" and were fun... But those were few and far between. Its not just one of the worst Sonic games ever (made even worse by the fact that its part of the "main" continuity), but it's a damn ass-sucky-mediocre-at-best game on it's own as well.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:06 pm

I think it would've been better if it had nekkid boobies.

WhoopA · Post by **WhoopA** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:56 pm

That's the answer for everything though...

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:07 pm

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

WhoopA · Post by **WhoopA** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:11 pm

But it is the problem.

Sonic Heroes sucking, that is.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:25 pm

Bare breasts alone couldn't save this game.

I think I would have some what like this game if there wasn't so much bottomless pits, glitches, had better bosses, had better enemy design, had a better story, and if it wasn't actually a true Sonic game. If this game was just a new Chaotix spin-off starring Vector and the old versions of Charmy, and Espio with little to no mention of Sonic & Co. while keeping to team-based gameplay, I would not have such a problem with it.

Having the awkward team-based gameplay and that level-up system on more well-known characters such as Sonic, Knux, etc. just seemed wrong. Suddenly, Sonic can't jump as high as he can in the past or can't defeat enemies in one hit. Now he has to rely on Tails and Knuckles to solve that problem and it disrupts the simplistic, fast-placed flow the Sonic games(or at least Sonic's gamestyle) is known for. At least with characters that are obscure such as the Chaotix, you can get away with this Team gameplay since most people don't even know what the game Chaotix was originally like.

Now, I can take ST adding several characters for a variety for different playing styles(which ideally should be derived from Sonic's game) in a Sonic game as long as I am able to control Sonic by himself and not in a Team-scheme.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:01 pm

Bare breasts alone couldn't save this game.

No, it still would've sucked... but it would've been better.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:02 pm

WhoopA wrote:But it is the problem.

Sonic Heroes sucking, that is.

I was refering to the naked boobs solution. It is an answer for everything.

WhoopA · Post by **WhoopA** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:27 am

Who said it needed fixing? All I was saying is that it's the answer to everything,

Post by **big_smile** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:36 am

Hey, excellent. Where do you buy those from?

The place I got it from isn't selling Sonic game guides to everybody at the moment, but as soon as they do (which should be in less than 10-14 days), I'll post the details.

but gameplay was it's really good IMO.

I had tremendous amounts of fun when playing, but I wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t say the gameplay is good. Heroes, like the Advance games, is similar to a lemon. If you put in the effort of memorising the level layouts, you can make some sweet tasting lemonade that is comparable to the experience of the Mega Drive games. The difference is that with the original Sonics the lemonade came 'ready-made' and without the fear of choking on a stray piece of lemon peel. For example, mis-time a jump in Sonic 3 and at the most, with a few exceptions, youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll just lose your rings. A similar mistake in Heroes will almost certainly result in death and the frustration of restarting.

Heroes makes the mistake of forcing players to learn the layout just to reach the end, instead of inspiring them to learn it by offering shortcuts and score bonuses as a reward.

Having the awkward team-based gameplay and that level-up system on more well-known characters such as Sonic, Knux, etc. just seemed wrong. Suddenly, Sonic can't jump as high as he can in the past or can't defeat enemies in one hit. Now he has to rely on Tails and Knuckles to solve that problem and it disrupts the simplistic, fast-placed flow the Sonic games(or at least Sonic's gamestyle) is known for. At least with characters that are obscure such as the Chaotix, you can get away with this Team gameplay since most people don't even know what the game Chaotix was originally like.

In addition, the team system was so poorly executed that it ended up as a gimmick. The level layouts dictated when you had to switch removing the freedom it should have brought. The control system was also unnecessarily complex - it should have been streamlined so attacking was still possible with a single button press. If Sonic Team had avoided these two problems, removed the bottomless pits (at the very least, they should have re-used the Ã¢â‚¬Ëœwind pitÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ idea from Pumpkin Hill in SA2) and improved the story/in-game dialogue then Heroes could have been an excellent Sonic game.

And I have no intention of ever going through the horrible ordeal of finishing Super Hard mode on a PS2 copy ever again (I pressed the fucking button ONCE, you piece of shit port!)

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve had this problem with the PAL versions of all the 3D Gamecube Sonic games. It is very noticeable in SA2:B when played in 50Hz mode, but non-existent when 60Hz is selected. For SADX and SH, it occurs in both 50 and 60 Hz modes, but only very rarely. It never happened in the DC games, so I guess it must be due to sloppy programming.

j-man · Post by **j-man** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:53 pm

I too got the "double-press" problem, but only on SA2B, and on both 50 or 60 Hz modes. It was especially frustrating when you actually needed to jump, like when fighting Egg Golem - I must've homing-attacked the sandpit a hundred times, to my growing frustration.

Besides, Sonic games shouldn't be about fiddly fucking jumps and precision timing (glitches or no), I just want to race around like a mental bastard and/or discover cool shit without falling down huge holes or slamming straight into an obnoxious enemy. Hence, Sonic Heroes remains shelved and my Megadrive gets regular use.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:07 pm

By the way GG!, if you want to add this, there are two Rail Canyon zones. The first one being in Tails' Skypatrol, and the one in Sonic Heroes.
Also, isn't there a place called Rail Canyon in California?

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:14 pm

By the way GG!, if you want to add this, there are two Rail Canyon zones. The first one being in Tails' Skypatrol, and the one in Sonic Heroes.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

They both suck, too.

Post by **big_smile** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:25 am

I recently unlocked Super Hard mode, so I thought I would post some pictures of it:

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

^Super Hard Mode unlocked

^Menu Option

^ Super Hard Mode selected

^Omochao message

^ Title card (start)

^ Title card (end)

The strategy guide still hasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t come yet, but IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll make sure the I post the relevant scans the exact moment it arrives.

The Doc · Post by **The Doc** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:33 am

I hate it when you get so frustrated and you work your ass off and all you get is a friggin' "Thank You" screen at the end.

Super Hard Mode was the bitch of all bitches. The least they could have done was unlock a new team to play as when you complete it, and they give a "Thank You" screen.

Well...at least a couple of the songs are good.

I just wish I knew how to make screenshots. No, don't tell me how, 'cause then I'd probably wish I could afford the equipment NEEDED to take a screenshot.

Post by **Delphine** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:32 am

The Doc wrote:Super Hard Mode was the bitch of all bitches. The least they could have done was unlock a new team to play as when you complete it, and they give a "Thank You" screen.

Damn, now I wish they'd done that. A Sonic/Shadow/Espio team would have made that damn game worth the money I paid for it. Speed + angst + ninja = happy me.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:59 pm

Oh hell no, because then I'd have had to get all A ranks and stress another few years off my life. I finished all that with SA2 (twice, I never hesitate to add). And I wouldn't have bothered then if it didn't unlock the coolest bonus feature ever to be added to a videogame, ever.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:33 pm

Yeah, I tried getting all the emblems. I got within like 10, but I knew I'd never get the all A emblem and I found out later that my it would've been better to leave my hero chao neutral so I wouldn't have to raise two. Anyway, I took advantage of the DC's web browser and downloaded a save, played it a few times and deleted it. As long as you don't have much pride it is a much easier way.