Sonic the Hedgehog 360 defecation station

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:57 am

How does Sonic being a game that attract a young audience have any correlation on it on its quality? I mean Mario and the Pokemon franchises are very popular among children and the quality of the current games in those franchises are usually pretty good.

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:59 am

Hey, was Naka involved in this project at the begining? did he pull a Sonic2 on us? <_<

Yeah, then he took off on June 1st.

What role, exactly, did Naka play all these years as Producer other than soak up media attention and look over people's shoulders?

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:19 am

Maybe it's due to the fact that Sonic is considered a kids game like any other kids game.

Which is why they make a game where Sonic the Hedgehog dies - or at least nearly dies - and falls in love with a princess? Or bother with a confusing (for some people) storyline involving time travel and whatnot? And that's neglecting Sonic Adventure 2 (12 year old girl with a terminal disease accidentally murdered by goverment agents!) and Shadow the Hedgehog (Where's that damn fourth Chaos Emerald?). Regardless of your opinion on the quality of this writing, these don't really seem like the kind of things a parent would want their 7 year old exposed to.

As much I as I may hate them for taking a great franchise and bastardizing it to exploit little children and their money-happy parents, I have to admit; It makes PERFECT buisness sense.

There's a lot out there that makes "perfect business sense" and it doesn't stop it from sucking any harder. Just ask EA. For EA? The money they get from flogging dead horses like Need for Speed is great for business. Buying out a new company once every year is great for business. Overworking their employees is great for business. Microtransactioning us to death is great for business.

But it sucks total ass for us. Just because something is good for business doesn't mean it's right for the consumer.

The true key to it all is to strike a balance. Make something that pleases old fans while enticing new ones, and is still "good business" in terms of money and marketing. Of course, that's not easy, but I digress.

Sonicteam can't seem to make up their minds what they want Sonic to be. We get Sonic Heroes, a brightly colored throwback to the Genesis games (gameplay aside). Directly afterwards, we get the exact opposite: Shadow the Hedgehog. And now we've got Sonic 2k6, something of an inbetween.

It's not that Sonic was made for kids, or adults, or anything -It's a mess, is what it is. And Sonic 2k6 just lumps more shit onto the pile rather than make any effort to clean the mess up.

cjmcray · Post by **cjmcray** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:07 am

BlazeHedgehog wrote:I don't care if my mind is dirty or not. A human princess kissing a midget in a fursuit is wrong.

If there was anything sexual about it, then yes, it would be wrong. Elise cared about Sonic, and was sad becuase she thought he was dead. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not like she madeout with him or anything. It was extremely brief from what I saw on YouTube.

I have to admit, i am disappointed at how bad this game apparently is. I haven't played it, since 360's are expensive, and I hear lots of people get the red light of death upon playing it, so I decided not to buy one. I only wanted a 360 for this game anyway.

Yes, i've bitched about this game a lot in the past. Heroes and Shadow made me bitter and cynical to the series as a whole. But over time, I hoped. Using the title 'Sonic the Hedgehog' was a really bold move. Becuase titling it simply 'Sonic the Hedgehog' suggests this is a real 'rebirth' of the franchise, regaining Sonic's status as one of the leading faces in the videogame world.

I've checked out a few cutescenes on YouTube, none of which I found appealing. The story outline on wikipedia also seemed lackluster. Still, the CG bits look great and I like the theme.

The game (As Sonic anyway) does look like fun though. But all these critcisms have me worried.

I fear Sonic is only going further downhill from here. Oshima is gone. Naka is gone. These were the two people that made Sonic so popular in the first place.

I think Sonic would've been better off with a 3rd Adventure game. SA1 was ok gameplay-wise, SA2 was great. The gameplay machenics were the best in a 3D Sonic game, and the homing-attack was perfectly tuned. Then came Heroes, Shadow and this. I liked the Adventures series, and never encountered any of the camera problems people complained about. All they need to do is get rid of the treasure hunting and shooting and focus only on characters that run fast.

And get rid of Shadow.

SA2 is over. His story is complete. Move onto new storylines and characters. Quit exploring already established characters and stories that really can't go any farther.

Move on, use other (NON HEDGEHOG DOPPELGANGER) characters. (Ok we have Shadow, Silver, Meplhilies, and of course, Metal Sonic) It's just pretty unimagintive to always think up of a new villain, and go 'he should be an evil hedgehog.'

SEGA needs to put Sonic on a hiatus and just do a LOT of retooling. Bring him back in 10 years. THEN there'd actually be deamnd for a new Sonic game, becuase people will wonder where he's gone.

Hybrid · Post by **Hybrid** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:55 am

Just imagine it. The Sonic series vanishes for ten years and then, when it finally comes back, still sucks as much as it does today because Sega still fail to realise they have a broken product.

No, the series doesn't need resting or anything. It just needs to be given the time to actually make something of itself. No deadlines, no rush. Let Sonic Team push the game back as many times as they want to get things right. Listen to the testers, fix any concerns they may have. Once you've got a solid base and at least one decent level made, release a demo on Live and see the fans' reaction to it. If the demo doesn't create a massive split in the fan community (like this one did, separating the fanboys and the so-called "2D Purists"), then you're probably on the right track.

3D Sonic really can work, and Sonic Team have done it before. SA1 was a perfect example of how to make levels feel like locations rather than unimpressive, suspended highways. The team just needs to be given time to aim up and do things properly; The fact that Sonic 360 is blatantly unfinished is proof enough that currently isn't happening.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:11 am

cjmcray wrote:I fear Sonic is only going further downhill from here. Oshima is gone. Naka is gone. These were the two people that made Sonic so popular in the first place.

Yasuhara is weeping.

I think Sonic would've been better off with a 3rd Adventure game.

Well judging by the impressions, this is the 3rd Adventure game. XD

Rolken · Post by **Rolken** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:47 am

J.E.Smith wrote:However, Mircosoft wanted the 360 version to be out as quick as possible, so they forced Sega to get it out the door on its originally planned date. So the 360 version is an unfinished game!

Hybrid wrote:Releasing an unfinished game is a new low for sega, assuming this is true.
...
Either way, this really is a testament to how little sega care about their mascot.

Hello?

Sega has always had incompetent short-sighted management; this is nothing new. Their developers just don't have the abilities to deal with it anymore.

Tsuyoshi-kun · Post by **Tsuyoshi-kun** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:24 am

At least Sonic 3 combined with Sonic & Knuckles made it worth the two price tags, even if it was a greedy tactic by SEGA to make more money.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:19 pm

Tsuyoshi-kun wrote:At least Sonic 3 combined with Sonic & Knuckles made it worth the two price tags, even if it was a greedy tactic by SEGA to make more money.

Yeah, but Knuckles in S2 was a novelty that wore off in the 5 minutes it took to get past Green Hill Zone. And the "new 24-bit" game that was promised was never exactly delivered, now wasi it? ;) I'm thinking SEGA has a LOOONG way to go if they ever want to get any more money from me. Tsuyoshi-kun's ideas are a good start, but if they want MY cash, they're going to have to BEG for it.

On their knees.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:16 pm

Eh, I have complete and total faith that this next game will be the one that will inspire tears of adoration and a war cry signaling that Sonic has returned, and he has been missed.

Or, it will be an unmitigated failure and life, somehow, will move on.

Hybrid · Post by **Hybrid** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:28 pm

Rolken wrote:Hello?

Sega has always had incompetent short-sighted management; this is nothing new. Their developers just don't have the abilities to deal with it anymore.

Yeah, I thought about Sonic 3 but decided it didn't warrant a mention here, given that they did a pretty clean job of splitting it up, and even standalone it was a good game. At least when they had an unfinished product back then, you couldn't tell it was unfinished.

Omni Hunter · Post by **Omni Hunter** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:38 pm

Baba O'Reily wrote:Eh, I have complete and total faith that this next game will be the one that will inspire tears of adoration and a war cry signaling that Sonic has returned, and he has been missed.

Or, it will be an unmitigated failure and life, somehow, will move on.

That's what we usually do, the truth is that it rarely swings our way though.

Kitsune wrote:but if they want MY cash, they're going to have to BEG for it.

So tell me, if you're saying that there were problems as far back as Sonic 3, what was the last Sonic game you purchased?
Even better, why even post on this board if Sonic has been such a problem to you for the past 10 years?

(...) · Post by **(...)** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:48 pm

At least Sonic 3 combined with Sonic & Knuckles made it worth the two price tags, even if it was a greedy tactic by SEGA to make more money.

Greedy tactic? They basically invented episodic content 10 years early. It just goes to show how original Sega were back then.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:32 pm

Omni Hunter wrote: So tell me, if you're saying that there were problems as far back as Sonic 3, what was the last Sonic game you purchased?

Sonic Adventure 2. I actually liked that.

Arcade · Post by **Arcade** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:10 pm

I bough Sonic Riders...is not that bad...too bad it ends being the best new Sonic game so far...

PS: I trade Gamecube with Pokemon coloseum and a playstacion 2 with Kingdom of hearts for a Dreamcast with Sonic Adventure International, too bad you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t live next doorÃ¢â‚¬Â¦

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:27 pm

Arcade wrote:I bough Sonic Riders...is not that bad...too bad it ends being the best new Sonic game so far...

PS: I trade Gamecube with Pokemon coloseum and a playstacion 2 with Kingdom of hearts for a Dreamcast with Sonic Adventure International, too bad you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t live next doorÃ¢â‚¬Â¦

The PS2/Kingdom Hearts is alright, but you GOTTA give a better GC game than PokÃƒÂ©mon Colosseum. Then maybe someone would consider it.

Post by **Delphine** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:50 pm

Alright is not a word. The term you want to use is "all right", and anyone who comes up with that "the language is changing and it's becoming more accepted" garbage is a pus-sucking junkslut. Lazy fucks.

DackAttac · Post by **DackAttac** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:08 pm

Stop wasting that fury on him and knock some sense into the people using "a'ight" first.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:22 pm

Delphine wrote:Alright is not a word. The term you want to use is "all right", and anyone who comes up with that "the language is changing and it's becoming more accepted" garbage is a pus-sucking junkslut. Lazy fucks.

Well how about "alright"?

Sniffnoy · Post by **Sniffnoy** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:03 pm

...OED has citations on "alright" since 1893. It's hardly like "alright" literally means "all right" anyway, even if it is an abbreviation for it, as the latter is just an idiom anyway.

MegaKitsune · Post by **MegaKitsune** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:50 pm

OK then, I'm just going to use "fucking swell" or "just north of fucking swell", depending on the context.

Post by **Delphine** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:33 pm

Sniffnoy wrote:...OED has citations on "alright" since 1893. It's hardly like "alright" literally means "all right" anyway, even if it is an abbreviation for it, as the latter is just an idiom anyway.

Pus-sucking junkslut.

SegaSonic · Post by **SegaSonic** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:38 pm

What the...Heck!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_djgJ8SUls&NR

didnt know this...website existed...soccer mom central.

Hybrid · Post by **Hybrid** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:02 am

What a confusing reviewer.

She's talking about how StH "disappoints", while smiling, while sounding completely indifferent to the entire ordeal. There's so many mixed emotions here.

And the game still rates poorly.

Rolken · Post by **Rolken** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:30 am

Hybrid wrote:At least when they had an unfinished product back then, you couldn't tell it was unfinished.

Yeah. The difference being that back then, they had a functioning platform that they were developing from, and so really the development time had more influence over the quantity of content than quality, because all the rules of the game were laid out and incremental improvement was sufficient to make an awesome game.

For a variety of reasons, this position has never been reached with 3D Sonic. They keep making incremental improvements, just as they did in the 2D days, but Sonic Adventure didn't provide enough initial momentum (read: a good engine) to keep churning out games every year on. And even if it had, 8 years is far too long to keep doing the same thing, and it shows. Heck, 2D Sonic was losing momentum after 3 years.

edit: And it's worth noting that people DID notice that Sonic 3 was unfinished insofar as the amount of content was lacking and the game just abruptly ended - which ties back into my first point.