Concept Artwork For "Epic Mickey" from Warren Spector

[CM August]

As far as I know, you can only toggle the subtitles on or off for that particular reigon. So no Japanese voices with English text, in other words.

[Radrappy]

After his explanation, I now fully understand and agree with P.P.A.'s sentiments towards 2K6.

That's really all there is to it, besides the awful new characters and beyond absurd and retarded plot, it was supposed to be a great game, and there are traces of that everywhere you look. Those were probably the first design elements to be thrown into the game's development, then they started to fill it up to the brim with fat: moronic "missions" in bland town stages, altogether unrelated gimmick game mechanics, et cetera. And then there is the entire mindlessly-rushing-it-for-holiday-season business, of course.

Seriously, if anyone managed to efficiently debug and polish the game's code to a point where its loading times aren't a flagrant insult and collision detection, camera and controls issues are brought to a minimum, put side-by-side with Unleashed, there's no doubt in my mind 2K6 would be the superior Sonic game (even if it kept the Shadow and Silver parts, they'd be "countered" with the werehog).

However, as fate would have it, that's not the case.

Also which version did you play Opa, the 360 or the PS3 one? Maybe it's unreasonably contrived, but perhaps it could be possible to set the system's language setting to Japanese and, once you've booted the game, change its in-game text to English? This would just save you the ear rape... or at least take it to an entirely different plane.

Just where are these traces of brilliance? I had a hard time noticing anything worthwhile during my play through (I managed to clear sonic's whole story). I've played a few games where it seemed like a great game was buried underneath a heap of shit and this is definitely not one of them.


The game, polished and finished, with excess parts removed as far as I can tell is just a pale copy of Sonic Adventure 1.

[P.P.A.]

during my play through

Here's the problem. Now go into the game's menu and play the stages on their own a few times, taking a closer look at their layouts playing them free of the anxiety rising from awaiting yet another set of awfully long loading screens and stupid cutscenes.

[Opa-Opa]

But that's the thing. If only the loading screens were the only problem there, then fine, but I just DON'T want to play the stages. I have no wish whatsoever of playing them again, since my experience with them were so bad. You shouldn't have to force yourself to play the levels to like them, that's bad design. And if something, the cutscenes at least made me curious to what was gonna happen next. At some point, I was only playing to get the story done.

I remember when I first played the Sonic Adventure demo, and I played it again, and again, and again, and again. And the same thing happened with Sonic Adventure 2, I could play City Escape with my eyes closed. And then I bought the game and I played the same levels again and again and again just because I liked it, and it was fun. For instance, I played the snowboarding sequence from Icecap numerous times. Now, Sonic 2006's snowboarding sequence is a broken pile of ass, and I have no wish of playing it ever again, and it amazed me how they could get it so wrong when thay had made it so right before.

And its true what Radrappy says. Feels like a broken copy of Sonic Adventure. I mean, just look at the first level. Feels like I'm playing an early SA Alpha Version or something.

[Isuka]

@Radrappy: It isn't quite as high as "brilliance" as it is "an actual Sonic game". True platforming, true alternative paths. Depending on the stage I guess some of them may be more or less expansive than those of Adventure 1 and 2, Wave Ocean isn't a particularly good one, but Kingdom Valley alone looks about twice as fun to play than the entirety of Unleashed... y'know, if it wasn't so horribly broken and blah blah.

And of course I also understand Opa's point, which is the other half of the reason why I hate SK6 more than almost any other entry in the series. For you see, I could tell by just reading about Chaotix, or 3D Blast, or Secret Rings or Black Knight, that they really aren't supposed to be great Sonic games, they just fuck the core mechanics too damn much. That was not the case with 2K6, it promised more than any previous title, Sonic Team even taunted us... if you expect a product to be shitty or at the very least subpar, and it ends up being just that, you really don't feel that bad about it beyond the "wasted resources for actually developing a decent game" thing. But what happens when you actually expect the exact opposite, and are shown an almost perfectly plausible sample of what it could end up being, and then totally out of the fucking blue they just go and take perhaps their biggest dump ever on your lap?

Of course nobody here needs to be told that the end result is forsaking the damn thing. Forever. Or until some seriously fucking good reason to regain the slightest bit of hope arises, whichever one comes first.

[j-man]

Chaotix was pretty good.

[G.Silver]

It really was.

[Wombatwarlord777]

I have yet to play Chaotix. What exactly is it's redeeming value? I thought it had a reputation for being pretty bad.

I wonder if the recent praise for Sonic 3D Blast and Chaotix on this forum isn't primarily due to them being relatively amazing compared to most of the recent releases. I guess that can cause you to look back at old titles with a new perspective.

[P.P.A.]

I have yet to play Chaotix. What exactly is it's redeeming value? I thought it had a reputation for being pretty bad.

I wonder if the recent praise for Sonic 3D Blast and Chaotix on this forum isn't primarily due to them being relatively amazing compared to most of the recent releases. I guess that can cause you to look back at old titles with a new perspective.

The only thing people could blame Chaotix for is that it doesn't play like a Sonic game. Of course it doesn't, it never claimed to be one!
The graphics are nothing short of amazing and flood you with the brightest of colours and the most twisted of abstract geometrical art. Think Sonic CD, just less rational. The music is similarly fascinating, sporting some very melodic and calming tracks. As for how the game plays, surprisingly well! (Especially on emulators and with a keyboard (on a 32X with a proper controller the entry is easier)) the elastic rubber band system might appear incredibly awkward at first, however once you've gotten used to it over the course of about a playthrough you will realise how varied and perfectly executed it is; with enough practice and the ensuing mastery you can pull off a variety of moves and zoom around the stages in ways not possible in any other game. The special stages are easily the best in any Sonic game there is (although I have yet to play S3D Saturn but I doubt they'll live up to them), as they sport, basically, 3D platforming, along with branching paths and interesting polygonal structures; seeing how you constantly walk forward in here as well, they easily put to shame SSR and demonstrate how something like this is properly executed. I happen to have videos of all of them up on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PPAChao#gri ... BC1983D2C3
The only criticism the game might justly receive is aside from the lame bosses (the very final one notwithstanding) that the level selection is random and that said stages tend to be somewhat repetitive and while huge, complex and explorable sometimes a bit too much of it for their own good. I still consider it to be one of the best games of the Sonic franchise to date though, and a remarkably unique and great platformer.

[Neo]

The special stages are easily the best in any Sonic game there is (although I have yet to play S3D Saturn

Opinion voided.

[Shadow Hog]

I have played Sonic 3D for the Saturn. Completed it. Several times.

Know what? Chaotix's special stages are better.

[Isuka]

The only thing people could blame Chaotix for is that it doesn't play like a Sonic game. Of course it doesn't, it never claimed to be one!

No.

Never meant to say Chaotix is a downright bad game, it's a subpar Sonic game (messy stage design, flawed physics introduced just to promote a poorly implemented gimmick ―or maybe it's the other way around―, monotonous and way too nondescript graphics) that can still be fun to play. Ironically enough, I unintentionally ordered them from not so bad to plain shitty as far as being a true Sonic game goes in my previous post.

[Dr. BUGMAN]

It takes no stretch of the imagination to think they deliberately took out Sonic to accomplish what P.P.A. just stated.

This was back when Sonic Team deserved the benefit of the doubt, too.

[G.Silver]

I completely agree with PPA on this, but adding my own suspicion that the levels themselves may have been built with a random level generator and then tweaked slightly, and that really hurts the game, the gameplay is fun for me, the levels are pretty dull and indistinctive (if incredibly fast). It really is a lot of fun, but you have to completely embrace the "Hold" mechanic to enjoy it. Once you do though, you can do some crazy things! You can actually FLY with it, if you exploit it correctly (I was never able to find a practical use for this, though).

[Segaholic2]

I have played Sonic 3D for the Saturn. Completed it. Several times.

Know what? Chaotix's special stages are better.

Fucking wrong.

That said, I like Chaotix.

[gr4yJ4Y]

I really want to play Chaotix now.

I remember the special stages being near uncontrollable and way too fast and disorienting, but after looking at those videos I question my memory. I haven't played the Saturn Sonic 3D Blast special stages, but I'd say my favorite ones are from Sonic Rush.

[Green Gibbon!]

Chaotix was unfinished, but even if it had been completed, I don't think it would've been much better. The level design is incredibly bland. The elastics are fine and there's some cool stuff you can do with it, but there's never any reason to.

Also, the bosses suck.

[Neo]

I have played Sonic 3D for the Saturn. Completed it. Several times.

Know what? Chaotix's special stages are better.

Sonic 3D's special stages are these wacky rollercoaster rides where you go zigzagging through tunnels, jumping into springs and plummeting down descending spirals not unlike the ones later appearing in the likes of Speed Highway and Radical Highway.

Chaotix's special stages put you running slowly in a hexagonal pipe, collecting spheres here and there, avoiding bumpers and hazards and then the level opens up and the camera starts aiming up and down and up and down and you can't see a thing and you jump over holes and hit a bumper and start slowly moonwalking backwards and ╯COURSE OUT╭

Plus, you can eliminate the only real challenge, time, by collecting a zillion rings before starting the stage. Then you can just play it safe and collect one sphere at a time, since the segment keeps repeating itself until you meet quota.

When you fail an S3D special, you feel like you fucked up. When you fail a Chaotix special, you feel like the game fucked you.

[cjmcray]

So I heard there's no dialogue in Epic Mickey, just gibberish in the cutscenes, ala Banjo Kazooie.

I'd much rather have silent cutscenes with the story told via the character's actions. Gibberish-speak is so irritating.

[Arcade]

So I heard there's no dialogue in Epic Mickey, just gibberish in the cutscenes, ala Banjo Kazooie.

I'd much rather have silent cutscenes with the story told via the character's actions. Gibberish-speak is so irritating.

You must love the Wii smah bross then...

[Shadow Hog]

To be fair, Mickey's most recent VA is kind of dead, so...

[Malchik]

Dig em' up!

Or hire Billy West...

[cjmcray]

They already got a new Mickey VA a month or two ago.

[Crazy Penguin]

Chaotix and the Saturn version of Sonic 3D had the two best Special Stages in the entire series, it's kind of pointless comparing awesome apples to awesome oranges.

Chaotix really, really could have been a great game. The graphics were gorgeous, the soundtrack was great, the rubber band mechanics were a novel idea that mostly worked and controlled well. Unlike more recent Sonic games it had very few problems, however those problems were large enough to be the game's downfall.

1. The random level selector didn't quite work. Each Zone had numerous acts, so I appreciate that you always started at a low difficulty level and progressed to a higher difficulty level, but despite this I think it still threw off a learning curve. And if we were to argue otherwise, then why make it random at all? Why not make it more like Super Mario Land 2 where you had free access to each Zone as you saw fit?

2. The random character selector was so easy to manipulate that it WAS unquestionably pointless. And even then, its 5 (or 7 really) characters didn't do different things, they just did the same thing in different manners. For example Mighty's wall-kick, Espio's wall stick, Vector and Knuckles' climbing and Charmy's flight were all just slightly differentiated means to the same end. Sonic 3 & Knuckles managed to get significantly more variety out of its 3 characters, despite 2 of them still taking the same routes within levels.

3. The bosses were too easy and kinda sucked. The final boss could and should have been an all-time classic but was one of the easiest bosses in the entire series.

4. And this is the big one. The level design sucked. It was practically non-existent. There wasn't any discernable rhyme or reason to the structure of your chosen character's surroundings. A lot of the time you were running through barren platforms without any obstacles or enemies at all. I've often argued that the original Sonic Advance (with the exception of Egg Rocket) was all just one level over and over again, with the same obstacles and design structure just different aesthetics. Chaotix is even worse because the one level it does have is so poorly designed. When they did try (the light-switching levels, the roller-coastery zone) it was all just too little and too superficial to really make an impact.

I would really love to see a Chaotix 2, because the concept really does have merit, which just made Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Heroes even more disappointing.

[Opa-Opa]

The music is great though.

I hate gibberish in games. Talk or don't, dammit.