Samus in Ninja Gaiden

[Esrever]

This is also a pretty lofty assumption. Especially since neither of the other female characters in the story are anything like how Samus is characterized.

No, but MB is a computer who -- as a result of becoming a human woman -- develops powerful and uncontrollable emotions and decides to kill everyone in the universe because her mom didn't love her.

God, that game was SO STUPID.

[Dr. BUGMAN]

She turned into what?! I've been avoiding a lot of footage of the game since not being able to stomach what I saw. I didn't think it could get more insipid.

Lemme guess, she was a hot shapely woman, too.

[Radrappy]

This is also a pretty lofty assumption. Especially since neither of the other female characters in the story are anything like how Samus is characterized.

No, but MB is a computer who -- as a result of becoming a human woman -- develops powerful and uncontrollable emotions and decides to kill everyone in the universe because her mom didn't love her.

I'm sure if you wanted to, you could make every single facet about this game sound sexist. You've all made this out to be some kind of bizarre witch hunt. The computer developed powerful and uncontrollable emotions because it was a HUMAN BEING. Not because it was a woman. C'mon.

God, that game was SO STUPID.

I don't see whats wrong with this particular plot point. after MB had been working with the scientists and developing a personality, she goes mad after being betrayed by the one she considered herself closest to. It's a little cliche', but it's not a terrible story. Yes, the execution is pretty piss poor. But you have to admit there are still some pretty suspenseful moments that are done well. Or are we just resigned to labeling the game as "sexist garbage" and moving on?

[Esrever]

But you have to admit there are still some pretty suspenseful moments that are done well.

What moments were those? I've finished the game now, and I thought the entire story execution was consistently overwrought and generally abysmal from beginning to end. Sure, the barebones of the story were fine, but they told it in the worst possible way. Sexism was really the least of it's problems.

(And honestly, the storytelling is so incompetent that sometimes I'm not sure if it's sexist or not... half the time, it's hard to tell what they were actually trying to communicate and what was just unintentionally creepy. Like when Samus was writhing around in her zero suit for like five minutes, incapacitated after Adam shot her. There was a MAJORLY uncomfortable vibe of sexual violation that couldn't possibly have been their intent. But why did the gun have to remove her armor? Why were there so many butt-oggling shots of helpless Samus? The whole scene is undermined by how GROSS it feels! I felt like I was learning more about the animator's fetishes than I ever wanted to know.)

I know this thread feels like everyone is just taking one giant dump on poor Other M, but there is a reason for that. It's a moderately competent game that is dominated by an atrociously told story, and while there are certainly some good points scattered throughout, they are not the moments that really stuck with me by the time it was all over. Everything that was good about it has been done better in other Metroid games, but it truly took the worst of the series to new and exciting heights!

[G.Silver]

I wrote all this out and Esrever manages a typically cleaner response in shorter time, but here we go anyway:

Or are we just resigned to labeling the game as "sexist garbage" and moving on?

I thought we were had done just that but then Youtube guy came in and kicked the hornet's nest again.

It's perfectly fine that the story is cliche (not "a little"--you need to watch more bad anime), poorly implemented, the good ideas are forgotten by many in the face of the bad ones, and somehow that adds up to sexist. If a bunch of monkeys banged away at typewriters for one hundred years and they wrote a story completely at random that was incredibly offensive, should we be offended, or should we just be impressed with its improbable origins? Offense is dependent entirely on the audience, artist intent has absolutely nothing to do with it, and that's the entire problem with things that are sexist: the people writing them, many times, do not even realize they are doing it, because they aren't thinking about how others are going to respond to it, they don't even realize that they should think about the possibility that it is wrong or offensive, and that's what the whole thing hinges on. You can call the whole thing bullshit if you want, but the argument exists, and the bottom line is that if you are unaware of it and create something that offends people they're still going to get on your case.

More importantly in this case, when Sakamoto (or whoever) wrote the Other M script, he was NOT taking his audience into account unless his intent was to create a big stink on the internet, because the perception of who Samus was in the mind of the audience is extremely well defined, despite the fact that she never utters a word of dialog in the games. Failing to capitalize on that strikes me as a huge waste. But fine, he can do what he likes, it's "art!" But hello, Art vs Commerce! You can't just make it for yourself if you plan on selling it. And you can't stop consumers from criticizing and reaching conclusions. It's not a "witch hunt," we're just interpreting the data. I'll see your witch hunt and raise you one Godwin's law: it's not like we're going to round up a bunch of Japanese developers into concentration camps and gas them or something.

[Radrappy]

well played gentlemen. Let's never speak of this again. Youtube guy, the next time you're in here it better be about sonic the hedgehog.

[Delphine]

artist intent has absolutely nothing to do with it

This, precisely. Intent is not magic. The reason the argument over sexism happens -- the reason it still exists, today, after all the work we have a society have done -- is because sexist ideas are ingrained into our society. We're told growing up that men are one way and women are another way, and that's just the way things are. Because the human race is nearly completely made up of men and women, this effects everything we do, every day, every hour, every minute. I highly doubt that whathisface sat down and said, "Okay team, let's make our game even worse by OFFENDING ALL THE LADIES." The ideas he has about women are ideas he grew up with, and he sees no reason to question them. We all have this same problem, wether it's sexism, racism, heterosexism, cissexism, ableism, ethnocentrism, ageism, classism... I believe I've exhausted the isms -- and until someone points out "hey, you know, whistling at ladies on the street is kind of rude and sometimes scary" or what have you, nothing's going to change.

Right, so, anyway, games. I just finished Red Dead Redemption. It was pretty decent! I have the soundtrack on repeat.

[Senbei]

RDR is the only game I can think of in which shooting people is boring. Unfortunately, that's eighty percent of the game. I've actually gone out of my way trying NOT to shoot people just to make things more interesting, but it didn't help much.

My favorite missions were the wrangling bits, especially once you get to hang out with your family.

[Jmo1link]

I thought we were had done just that but then Youtube guy came in and kicked the hornet's nest again.

So ban me if you're fed up with it, my feelings won't get hurt.

Linking to other people's arguments is not how you win arguments.

All I did was link it for you guys to see, if you couldn't tell, I in fact wrapped up my personal opinion. How sensitive people can be with things in a videogame is astounding. I guess video games purpose of escape from laws of reality have no meaning these days.

[Crisis]

So ban me if you're fed up with it, my feelings won't get hurt.

I'm pretty sure The GHZ doesn't ban its members. Aside from the forum's lack of clearly defined rules, bans are easily circumvented, open to abuse, and generally unhelpful. They hamper the free exchange of ideas and act as a kind of censorship.

So feel free to post what you like, but don't be surprised if someone calls bullshit. That's basically how this forum works. That, and poop jokes.

How sensitive people can be with things in a videogame is astounding. I guess video games purpose of escape from laws of reality have no meaning these days.

Obviously video games have the power to offend people, just like any other form of art. More so, as it's just emerging and under intense scrutiny and suspicion. I don't think escapism has anything to do with it.

[Delphine]

I'm pretty sure The GHZ doesn't ban its members.

We do, on occasion, but you have to do something particularly heinous. Or be a complete creep, I've banned a few of those.

How sensitive people can be with things in a videogame is astounding.

I know, right? Look how butthurt this guy is over a bad review of a game he likes!

My favorite missions were the wrangling bits, especially once you get to hang out with your family.

Those were some of my favorite parts, too. The missions were you were with them, or the McFarlane's, were the best part of the game. The rest of the missions were basically Grand Theft Equine.

I've never been a really big fan of shooters, so I can't say the shooting in RDR was more boring than shooting in any other game.

[Senbei]

I've been having a difficult time articulating what exactly bugs me about shooting guys in that game. The best I can come up with is that it feels like a shooting gallery. In other shooters -- good ones, at least -- I feel more involved with my opponents. In RDR, they are just target practice. That part on the raft when you first arrive in Mexico was particularly impressive: the game forces you to take out half of Mexico and manages to make it the most monotonous and boring fight in recent memory.

[Jmo1link]

How sensitive people can be with things in a videogame is astounding.

I know, right? Look how butthurt this guy is over a bad review of a game he likes!

Indeed I was irate(irate=/=butthurt) about it, I should have scripted it and done it in a clam mood but oh well, I can admit that it was a garbage commentary. And removing it from YT won't prove anything. To be honest, I should learn to accept the good, bad, and ugly reviews(doesn't mean I'll never commentate on them if they suck), oh well, learning from stupidity is the way ahead.
Also I love you to.

[Delphine]

Also I love you to.

Oooh, going for the creeper ban!

[Jmo1link]

Lol topic hijacking.

[Ritz]

Jerk-me-off 1link am I right guys

[(No Imagination)]

And the shit was twizzled.

[Jmo1link]

Jerk-me-off 1link am I right guys

It's more creative than jizz1link(long story), +1 to you buddy.

[Kogen]

You guys are really heating it up on this first day of October.

[P.P.A.]

I played Metroid II on the Game Boy and found it rather confuſing and disorientating.

Not to mention the plot is morally highly questionable, ſince the player on a miſſion amounting to what is baſically a genocide.

[Dr. BUGMAN]

Those 'S'es look like upside-down 'j's, right, it's not just me?

[Arcade]

You know what, I think everyone would have loved other M if the main character was princess Peach!

[P.P.A.]

Those 'S'es look like upside-down 'j's, right, it's not just me?

I ſtarted uſing the long „s“, „ſ“ in everyday writing and typing, juſt becauſe it’s ſo wonderfully anachroniſtic.

[Dr. BUGMAN]

Shoulda known it was you being you. Just making sure my browser wasn't on the fritz.

[Crisis]

I write my fs in a weird way. They're really loopy. People mistake them for bs every now and again, although people pick it up very quickly when I write something of any length. I learned it off a handwriting coach years ago when I was training to compensate for my double jointed fingers. Apparently it makes my handwriting look delightfully quaint, which I suppose was the intention. It makes cursive writing easier, at least. Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about or am I alone in the world?