Sonic Unleashed?

[Ngangbius]

I'm concentrating more on leveling Werehog than the hedgehog, but I'm still finding the night stages to be insufferable. What's worse is that I have that blasted Werehog theme stuck in my head.

So yeah. 360 version. Quite competent, yes, but still feels lacking, honestly. The normal Sonic stages are more enjoyable in general, but I never really feel like I can control Sonic. I know, it sounds easy enough - have him go straight forward ad nauseam, with a few skips to the side here and there. And yet, the control being as loose as it is, I have a hard time going in a straight line. Certainly this is something that you can get used to... but I shouldn't have to. I DIDN'T have to back with the first two Adventures.

YES! It's even much more of a pain when you play Holaska and those awful sled parts. I think Sonic is more manable in the hub, to be honest. He's slower there, but he has more of a sense of control than how he feels in levels.

Oh, and I really wish Sonic Team would stop removing all my points for dying once. Especially when it's late into the level.

I also noticed in the day stages that your time doesn't reset to the last time you hit the lampost after you die. It just keeps going.

[Isuka]

For all the stuff I've seen so far, I would certainly love to see a free, compelling platforming-oriented Sonic game using this newfangled Hedgehog Engine. I mean, Sonic Team managed to fuck up Havok and do unusually-ugly stuff with PhysX with NiGHTS: JoD, and Square Enix managed to botch the Unreal Engine 3-powered The Last Remnant, so I get it that Japanese developers aren't good at translating their games' formulas to other developers' engines.
Now that would be a good starting point towards a game whose mechanics start resembling old-school. Plus lack of stupid, out of place gimmick characters and play styles, of course.
And it was pretty obvious that this game would receive mixed reviews due to recent Sonic games trajectory and the fact that they're both reviewed as games and as Sonic games (read special). To get a new Sonic game with working code and almost no broken camera/ controls seems like a godsend, and I don't expect a proper "revival" of the series immediately after such suckfests as 06 and SatSR, but I want to believe that we'll eventually get it.

[Owen Axel]

FUCK Eggmanland! FUCK Eggmanland! FUCKING piece of shit level!!

I can't believe a level in this game feels MORE frustrating than anything I ever saw in Sonic 06. What the hell, man? Spent an hour getting to the end, just to get gang-raped by giants at the very last bit. The idea of having to start that level over makes me sick to my stomach. I've been favourable towards this game since I got it, but now... This game sucks.

[Dasher]

Is this for Wii or 360?

[Hybrid]

And those having medal problems; hell, I only had to seek out some medals like once. Most of them were right in my way or in plain sight. I'm not saying they're a completely justified game feature, but come on, don't you guys explore the levels/hubs at all?

I've supposed to go into Adabat Day, but I need to be at Sun Level 7, which uh, I'm not. I'm 15 medals away, in fact. And I've got at least 8/10 medals in each Werehog stage, and like 1 or 2/3 in the Hedgehog stages. Oh, and I've got all the Sun Medals from the hub worlds. I haven't actually missed much, but for some reason the game has decided on a ridiculously large quota for getting into Adabat Day.

I'm hearing lots of reports of Eggmanland being unbearably shitty, and it is sort of making me want to stop while I'm ahead!

[Rob-Bert]

I heard it wasn't so much shitty as it was legitimately ball-bustingly hard. Like Scrap Brain or Death Egg hard, not Flame Core or Crisis City hard.

[Owen Axel]

Sorry, 360. I watched the Wii version of YouTube, and in that one you could reach a goal in seven minutes. The one I just suffered through takes forty minutes, if you're DOING WELL. I stand by the rule that no Sonic level in any game should take longer than 10 minutes, and I would like to finish this game without being quite so mistreated, if it's at all possible.

I'd still say Sonic Unleashed is a decent game, but the final portion just sucks so much. I mean, wow. If you hate quicktime events, then welcome to purgatory. If you hate being forced to rush with a character who'll leap off the edge at the slightest button press, then welcome to hell.

Haven't gotten to the actual Super Sonic bit, but I won't get my hopes up. The Eggman boss was pretty fun, though.

EDIT: By the way, it's Crisis City hard. Trust me.

[FlashTHD]

EDIT: By the way, it's Crisis City hard. Trust me.

If so, that doesn't sound too terrible, cause it was managable with everybody but Sonic.

Flame Core, meanwhile...crappy with Sonic and Shadow, and almost torturous as Silver. His last three levels in a row were.

[Owen Axel]

EDIT: By the way, it's Crisis City hard. Trust me.

If so, that doesn't sound too terrible, cause it was managable with everybody but Sonic.

Okay, Crisis City AND Flame Core played back-to-back with no option to save between and on Hard mode. THAT is Eggmanland. You'd think I'm exagerrating, but I'm not. It's that hard, horrible, and looooooong.

The Super Sonic bit turned out to be really fun to play, though, so there's light at the end of the tunnel. Shame you're likely to get run over by a train first.

[Dasher]

Is Eggman Land mostly Werehog gameplay?

[Radrappy]

Ok guys. I rented both versions and played a great deal of each this past weekend. On the wii version I am as far as abadat(night) and on the 360 version I am about to fight the DarkMoray boss. I really don't feel like writing a goddamn wall of text so let me just say a couple of choice things.

-I like both versions. neither is a steller game but they each have specific advantages and disadvantages. Werehog levels are better designed on the wii and don't suffer the slowdown of their 360 counterparts. However the combat is worse and there a whole lot more of them to slog through.

-the drift and the quickstep. Wonderful additions to the 3d sonic games that I hope stay with us forever. They really succeed in establishing a new identity for sonic's gameplay. In what other game can your character fucking drift down city streets? Sure, I miss the spindash but the drift is a worthy successor.

-Wii daytime stages are initially way more accessible than the 360 ones. The 360 controls are mapped excessively and are extremely intimidating at first. Never before has sonic had so many commands at his disposal. It's amazing to think that we've gone from a game that was controlled with one button, to one that is controlled by four face buttons, two shoulder buttons and two triggers. In contrast, It is pretty easy to get into the wii version and immediatly start drifting and sidestepping like a pro. However there are few things more satisfying than really nailing a 360 daytime level. I did a mazuri speed run for my friends last night and their heads damnwell near exploded.

-the hubworlds on wii suck and are insulting. The hubworlds on the 360, while completely unnecessary, are lovingly crafted and are fun, stress-free diversions. I actually love collecting the medals in these stages and talking to people. They are charmingly designed and not irritating at all. You can really feel the research that went into crafting these worlds. Bravo art direction team.

-the daytime 360 bosses are fucking fantastic. The egg devil ray was just, awesome.

-Locit and G Silv, the hate you have for the wii version is unfounded. It is still an enjoyable game and has a completely different feel from the 360 version that is worth checking out. They really do feel like two completely different games. The wii levels are more about getting those turns just right and beating your time records which is very appealing in its own right.

-Judging from what I've played so far, here are some highlights in terms of levels

Best Daytime Levels so far:
Spagonia(wii)
Chunan (wii)<--- great alternative paths
Apotos(360)
Spagonia(360)<--- goddamn massive
Mazuri(360) <--- I fucking love this one

Worst Daytime levels so far:
Holaska(360)

Best Nighttime levels so far:
Spagonia(wii)
Holaska(360)
Mazuri(360)

Worst Nightime levels so far:
Chunan(360)
Apotos(360)

All in all, They're pretty fun games. If I had to place them, I'd say they fall somewhere behind SA2 and above SaTSR. I'm looking forward to beating both versions when I get done with school.

[Baba O'Riley]

Drifting was the only part of Sonic Unleashed that I enjoyed, but not at the expense of the spin dash. In a game that's geared around speed, there needs to be some way to generate it quickly with a deal of flash. Plus, it's iconic. It'd be like getting rid of the pipes in Mario.

[Hybrid]

Okay, FUCK this game. Fuck Eggmanland. I got about 40 minutes into the level with seven lives left in hand. I came up to a Sonic section, where you're getting boosted through a tunnel via those air boosters that require you to push the right button to fire them. Also, there are multiple purple blades spinning through the tunnel. Hitting the right buttons is easy, but avoiding those blades is IM-FUCKING-POSSIBLE. The boosters do not shoot you out fast enough, and if the blades hit you while you're waiting to be fired out, you just get knocked out of them. One of the boosters fires you right up against a wall, which you then have to wall-jump up, except to wall jump you need to jump at the wall from a 45 degree angle, which requires you to walk away from where the booster lands you and towards the oncoming blade. You can't stand outside the tunnel and wait for the opportune moment to enter, because in order to get to it you need to bust downwards through a long shaft of boxes, so you can't even see the position of the blades beforehand. The very first booster you hit - you can't avoid this one - is RIGHT IN THE FUCKING PATH OF AN ONCOMING BLADE EVERY FUCKING TIME. There's a checkpoint right before this bit with like, three rings next to it. Every fucking time, I lost all my rings getting hit by the first blade that seems literally impossible to avoid, and then died while trying to position myself for a wall jump.

So, anyone who has beaten this level: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO. I just lost 40 minutes to this piece of shit, and to get finished off by some of the worst fucking level design I've ever seen is beyond infuriating. GUYS. WHAT THE FUCK.

[Rob-Bert]

Drifting was the only part of Sonic Unleashed that I enjoyed, but not at the expense of the spin dash. In a game that's geared around speed, there needs to be some way to generate it quickly with a deal of flash. Plus, it's iconic. It'd be like getting rid of the pipes in Mario.

To be fair, Mario 64 only had pipes in one level (unless you count the one from the opening cutscene), and there IS a way to generate speed quickly with deal of flash: the Boost. Sure you need Rings for it, but those are all over.

[Owen Axel]

Okay, FUCK this game. Fuck Eggmanland. I got about 40 minutes into the level with seven lives left in hand. I came up to a Sonic section, where you're getting boosted through a tunnel via those air boosters that require you to push the right button to fire them. Also, there are multiple purple blades spinning through the tunnel. Hitting the right buttons is easy, but avoiding those blades is IM-FUCKING-POSSIBLE. The boosters do not shoot you out fast enough, and if the blades hit you while you're waiting to be fired out, you just get knocked out of them. One of the boosters fires you right up against a wall, which you then have to wall-jump up, except to wall jump you need to jump at the wall from a 45 degree angle, which requires you to walk away from where the booster lands you and towards the oncoming blade. You can't stand outside the tunnel and wait for the opportune moment to enter, because in order to get to it you need to bust downwards through a long shaft of boxes, so you can't even see the position of the blades beforehand. The very first booster you hit - you can't avoid this one - is RIGHT IN THE FUCKING PATH OF AN ONCOMING BLADE EVERY FUCKING TIME. There's a checkpoint right before this bit with like, three rings next to it. Every fucking time, I lost all my rings getting hit by the first blade that seems literally impossible to avoid, and then died while trying to position myself for a wall jump.

So, anyone who has beaten this level: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO. I just lost 40 minutes to this piece of shit, and to get finished off by some of the worst fucking level design I've ever seen is beyond infuriating. GUYS. WHAT THE FUCK.

You know the bit where you need to wall-jump? You know the duck button? The one you slide with. Makes Sonic duck and crawl when you fail slides in daytime levels. Yeah, that one. It's no Carnival Night barrel, but you're at the first and only point in the entire game where you need to duck. The purple fan goes harmlessly over your head, and you can move on.

[Hybrid]

Yeah, thanks. I got through this hellhole about 45 minutes ago. My point still stands about the shitty level design; This should not have been the first time you need to use that move, and even if it was, there should have been a 1Up nearby so you didn't have limited attempts to figure it out.

But for the last time though, I'm sick of this game and sick of all the bullshit it is making me go through. I tried hard to like it, I really did, but everything I've played today (from Eggmanland to Dark Gaia) has been absolute garbage and has dropped this game below a passing grade in my opinion. This isn't even remotely fun. As if the 40-minute Eggmanland wasn't enough of a slap in the face, Dark Gaia has all but driven away any desire I have to ever play this game again, let alone finish it.

I'm doing the stupid Chip/Temple part of the fight, and I can get to the third round fairly easily, but from there it just goes to shit. Gaia throws boulders with no gaps to fly between. The timing for your ridiculously laborious punches changes every single time because you're closer to him. Does the block button even do anything? I still seemed to take huge chunks of damage when I blocked the laser/meteors. When he kept throwing boulders at me from virtually point-blank range, I quit. I quit because its stupid. I quit because if I want to walk away from this game without loathing it, I need to forget about virtually everything post-Adabat.

[Dash]

The third round of the the Chip/Temple thing is shit, and any reasonable person would give up on it, but I got through it by throwing a couple good punches and accepting that there is no way to avoid the laser. I just used the guard while flying away from it to minimize damage. It's still bull that there's no possible way to make it through without getting hurt(that I can see), but at least the last Sonic section has an easily obtainable 1up in it.

I'm really surprised at the games brutality in spots! Considering Sonic's main audience, you wouldn't think they'd let some of the main missions get that tough. Despite that, I've still had a lot of fun with the game. Sonic's hot dog time trials are tough as nails but awesome when you pull them off. Extra levels are neat too. Also very hard, but not impossible.

But yeah, if water wasn't still a one-hit-kill and there was always an alternate path for missed QTEs, Sonic Unleashed would be much more fair.

[Locit]

-Locit and G Silv, the hate you have for the wii version is unfounded. It is still an enjoyable game and has a completely different feel from the 360 version that is worth checking out. They really do feel like two completely different games. The wii levels are more about getting those turns just right and beating your time records which is very appealing in its own right.

Are you kidding me.

[Hybrid]

The whole game - well, the Sonic sections at least - takes the "memorization" aspect from the Rush series and magnifies it tenfold. What frustrates me more than anything is that most of the levels in the game are literally impossible to beat the first time through without dying - not because they're particularly difficult, but because it is simply impossible to dodge half the obstacles without falling to them beforehand.

How much of the game is simply unexplained also annoys me. The level progression - that is, "beat the day and night levels to unlock the keys" - is something I learned through trial and error, rather than the game explaining it to me. Maybe if I'd read through the absurd list of hints Prof. Pickle gives out I'd have known this, but since most of them are relatively inane tidbits I never bothered sifting through them. The colossus battle at the end is particularly puzzling, not only because they're introducing an entirely new gameplay mode at the very end of the game, but because aside from the control layout being displayed before the battle, it isn't explained at all. There seems like there should be a way to avoid the laser, or to at least block properly, but the game doesn't offer any hints.

It just seems like a mess in places, honestly.

[Owen Axel]

Ah, yes. How to block properly. Blocking genuinely reduces damage to minimal, but only when the block animation is finished, so you have to hold down the block button for like 2-3 seconds before the damage you take is reduced one iota.

What I want to know is what was the point of the attack buttons mapped to L1 and R1? I never used those once during the entire boss fight. Correction, I tried to hit some boulders, but they just hurt me instead.

[Baba O'Riley]

Okay, so I rented the game yet again, this time for PS3. I don't know what happened, or maybe because I finally took the time to get to Eggmanland, but any positive feelings I had toward this game are long gone.

First of all, the "Here we..." part I thought was amusing when I played the Wii and the 360 versions. Now? It's just fucking annoying. That pause should not be that long. It's nitpicking but I don't fucking care.

I'm gonna focus mainly on the time sink that is Eggmanland. Fuck that level. First of all, Eggman ferris wheel? Stupid. I wasted two minutes because of the fucking auto lock-on. The whole being chased by a robot thing is just pitiful. The Werehog segment... is a Werehog segment. It feels like they slapped on a bunch of platforming elements in an effort to just eat up time after that. And no sane person is going to waste the effort to get less than 4:30 on the daytime segment.

Something else that's been bothering me... why does Sonic Team feel the need to try and throw everything that they can into console Sonic games? I don't mean effort-wise. It feels like they decided that just running around as Sonic isn't good enough, so people need to have at least 2 other styles of play so they don't get bored. And they just sort of shove it in there, and don't offer any way to get around it. Whether it's Werehogs, Silver, Tails/Eggman and Knuckles/Rogue, or even earlier, with Big's levels (which I am personally a fan of, but I can easily see how they'd grate on some nerves). Sure, it's cool to change things up, but forcing the player to indulge in what feels like an extended minigame to progress the main story along rarely works well, and Sonic Team one ups the practice by generally doing a bad job of it. Seperated from the daytime levels, the Werehog parts are just a really crappy brawling game.

[G.Silver]

why does Sonic Team feel the need to try and throw everything that they can into console Sonic games? I don't mean effort-wise. It feels like they decided that just running around as Sonic isn't good enough, so people need to have at least 2 other styles of play so they don't get bored

Maybe you were being rhetorical I think it's because Sonic himself has been boiled down to speed speed speed over and over again and it feels shallow by itself.

I've been thinking lately about how the original Sonic was meant to compete with Mario, but I mean, look at Sonic now, it's gone in a completely different direction and has little resemblance to its first game and even less resemblance to say, Mario Galaxy. Comparing Sonic to Mario at this point is just embarrassing! Obviously I'm in a camp that wishes new Sonic games were a little more platformer, but Mario is still just a platformer and I personally think that Mario Galaxy is the best one since it stopped being 2D. There's a reason Nintendo has not strayed too far from what works (yet at the same time, being very different), and look at Sega, reinventing the wheel every time.

[Esrever]

I'm pretty sure they keep trying to add all this other stuff so that they can make a game that lasts longer than an afternoon.

I mean look at Sonic Unleashed... a game that probably features more square-footage of Sonic levels than any 3D Sonic title ever before it. The stages are absolutely enormous and probably took an outrageous amount of time to construct... but most of them can be completed in under six minutes. Without all the game's other components -- the missions, the werehog, the cut scenes, the hub -- you could speed-run the entire thing in well under an hour.

Personally, I think the critics who propose Sonic can succeed by being stripped back are completely wrong. If they ever got the game they all said they want, they would hate it... they would complain that it is too shallow and too short. A $60, 12-hour Sonic game DOES need to be fleshed out with alternate ideas and play styles to succeed. The problem is that most of their attempts to do so have either been poorly thought out or just badly implemented. But that doesn't mean it isn't the right idea.

I mean, you know what other game has taken a classic franchise and added a hub, alternate missions that reuse the same stages with new goals, timed objectives, collecting assignments, copious bonus minigames, and tons of stages that feature alternate forms gameplay that have "nothing to do" with what the franchise is known for? Mario Galaxy! The 3D Mario games were created using the exact same expansion philosophy that the Sonic games are now trying to follow. But no one complained when Nintendo did it, because Nintendo did it WELL. If they hadn't, I'm sure we'd all be reading countless articles begging them to "get back to what made Mario great" by getting rid of Peach's castle, butt-sliding, red coins, manta rays, air bubbles and power stars.

[Rob-Bert]

That's kind of why I figured a free-roamer could've worked for Sonic. You'd have one big world with many areas to run around in and explore as opposed to a few regular levels, thus upping the game's replay value.

[Segaholic2]

The PS3 version is out already?