What Sonic game is this?

[Esrever]

Screw Attack just released a video of their picks of the 5 best and 5 worst Sonic games. The list itself is nothing special, and almost all of you are going to disagree with it, but that's not what I want to talk about anyway.

What I do want to talk about is the clip of the 3D Sonic game that is shown 27 seconds into the video. What IS that? I don't recognize the environment at all, and it's driving me nuts!

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29711.html

[Zeta]

That is a very good question. Looks like a pirated game to me. You can see the Sonic Adventure art as the life counter, but the model and environment are nothing like any of the 3D Sonic games.

[Shadow Hog]

Sonic GL. Fangame that ultimately wound up cancelled, but inspired awe in the minds of the many, many idiots in the fandom who didn't realize how it encapsulated everything that was wrong with the 3D Sonic games.

Honestly, if I had to pick a fangame to toss in there, there were far, far better picks to make. Retro Sonic. Sonic XG. Sonic Robo Blast 2. Blaze's 2K6 spinoff. I could go on.

And Sonic R was actually pretty damn fun. Shadow should've been #1. Once again, Screw Attack's "Top 10" list and I don't get along...

[aso]

Sonic R and Sonic the Fighters really didn't deserve to be on the 'Bottom 5' - Sonic R was indeed pretty damned fun (and the soundtrack still remains a dollop of syrupy goodness, damn the naysayers) and while Sonic the Fighters wasn't great, it was a serviceable Virtua Fighter clone.

[Esrever]

I imagine it's really hard to pick the worst five accurately. After all, you'd need to have played every single Sonic game ever made, and that's no small feat!

I imagine they were also tempted to pick the more "famous" bad Sonic games like Sonic R or 3D Blast, rather than some of the even worse -- but more obscure -- titles like G Sonic. I was surprised they even thought to mention Sonic Labyrinth.

(Also thanks for letting me know where that shot came from... I guess they used the fangame clip by mistake?)

[hedgepig]

I guess they used the fangame clip by mistake?)

Yeah. It's an easy mistake to make: mixing up an obscure fan game with official releases. They're clearly well researched and knowledgeable on the subject.

Sonic R worst Sonic game? It's a damn good game. Flawed and odd, but damn good.

Seems like the combined time they spent playing these games is shorter than their video.

[Black Rook]

If anything deserves special mention as "worst" in Sonic R, it's the controls. The music isn't for everyone, but what's up with going on about how much it sucks ("turn it off DUURRR WE CAN'T") but no mention of the horrible, horrible controls?

Sonic Shuffle deserved the top spot, though. Ugh.

[Majestic Joey]

I can't believe sonic 2k6 was not on the list. I mean Sonic 3d blast is bad but Sonic 2k6 was to be the big reinvention of Sonic.

[James McGeachie]

It boggles my mind anyone could pick Sonic CD for top spot, the visual style of the game is nice but the level design just feels like a disjointed mess, the platforming doesn't feel anywhere near as tight and refined as Sonic 2 and 3&K. I wouldn't even have it on my top 5 at all.

I suppose it's not too surprising that the top spot isn't something I agree with though, considering that fucking Sonic Advance 3 in 4th is the most retarded shit I've seen in a while. What exactly does that game have going for it that even stands out over the other 2 Advance games or Sonic Rush for that matter? 3 acts per zone, all of which are nigh on identical to each other, with each act more insipid and uninspired than the last? A completely useless 2 character gimmick that isn't Incorporated into the level design in any way whatsoever?

The only redeeming quality of this vid is that I always get a kick out of hearing "blast processing". Also that fan game looks surprisingly cool.

[Crazy Penguin]

Sonic Advanced 3?

Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles, CD and Adventure are clearly the best in the series.

The worst? I think we recently proved that to be the Sonic Jam on Tiger Game.com. G Sonic (Sonic Blast) on Game Gear and Master System is also well up there, getting the screenshots for the Museum page was excruciating. I tried playing the Drift games for a few seconds and gave up on them. Sure Labyrinth was awful but at least you were able to see what was going on and get a half fair handle on the controls, which is more than can be said of Drift. And Sonic in a car? Really?

I think the Master System/Game Gear version of Sonic 1 is quite underrated. It's certainly not the kind of gameplay we'd generally associate with Sonic but it was a solid 8-bit platformer. Its sequels were generally more "Sonicy" but the technology just wasn't there for that kind of fast paced gameplay and the Game Gear's screen size certainly damn wasn't either.

The Sonic Advance games were cookie cutter. Creatively they were below the core Game Gear games and they didn't have the excuse of poor technology.

Sonic Rush was a big step up but still a bit too much in "Sonic Advance 4" territory. I was pleasantly surprised by Sonic Rush Adventure, it doesn't have the depth of design of the Mega Drive games or any new innovations of its own, but it does clear up most of the basic problems of its predecessors and is pretty damn fun in its own right. I was particularly pleased that we finally got some new Zone types. Seriously, Advance 1-3 and Rush 1 were practically carbon copies in that respect and they were just riffs on past Sonic games. Haunted Ship and Pirates Island in particular were great looking levels and felt very fresh in a Sonic game.

[Esrever]

Sonic Advance 3 is certainly my favourite of the GBA games -- it's the only one that has right 'classic' balance of speed, platforming and exploration. For me, that made the advance series' usual problems -- cheap object/pit placement and radically inconsistent art direction -- more bearable than they were in the previous two titles. And the stages where those problems didn't exist, like Sunset Hill, were extremely enjoyable and actually felt like a proper Sonic game!

Still, Advance 3 has got nothing on Rush Adventure, let alone Sonic 2, so its inclusion is a bit baffling. I wouldn't put Sonic CD ahead of S3K either, but I know lots of Sonic fans would... indeed, your preference between those two games is a useful indicator of which parts of the Sonic formula are most important to you!

As for me, I still think the original Sonic is the best one, but I know that's not a particularly popular opinion.

[FlashTHD]

Sonic Advance 3 is certainly my favourite of the GBA games -- it's the only one that has right 'classic' balance of speed, platforming and exploration. For me, that made the advance series' usual problems -- cheap object/pit placement and radically inconsistent art direction -- more bearable than they were in the previous two titles. And the stages where those problems didn't exist, like Sunset Hill, were extremely enjoyable and actually felt like a proper Sonic game!

Haven't played the lower routes much have you?

Whatever Advance 3 cart you've got, it ain't mine. That description applies more to the first one; 3 is as boring, sloppy and inconsistent as 2 if not worse. 1 may be generic but it's more solidly built than the sequels dreamed they were.

While this chit-chat is nice and all, can we please snip out the link to that bias Screw Attack trash so no one coming here feeds it more hits?

[Crazy Penguin]

As for me, I still think the original Sonic is the best one, but I know that's not a particularly popular opinion.

Its Special Stages certainly stood the test of time better than those of its sequels and it certainly has the best enemy robots in the series.

Personally I consider 2, 3&K and CD to all be superior to the original, and yet as I get older it's the original I go back to play more and more. I can't quite put my finger on why that is, but I think it has something to do with the mood conveyed in the stage visuals and music. There was a raw edge, a quite bizarre one, that hasn't quite been recaptured since. Sonic 2 gave us Casino Night Zone and cosmic half-pipe Special Stages but Sonic 1 gave us Spring Yard Zone and glittering maze Special Stages with fish morphing into birds for the background.

[G.Silver]

indeed, your preference between those two games is a useful indicator of which parts of the Sonic formula are most important to you!

This is probably the most intelligent thing I've ever heard anyone say regarding S3K vs Sonic CD.

I still generally hold that Sonic CD is my favorite but at the same time Sonic 1 is certainly the most iconic and the one that I do go back to play the most, though I think that's because it's less involving for me. My Sonic CD time is highly ritualized, with certain areas of stages that must be visited, and I have to get all the Time Stones AND destroy the machines in the past to make good futures, so I can't actually get ALL the Time Stones until the final stage. Actually visiting those good futures is also a possibility! Sonic 1 is more arcade-like and I know it'll be over in under 40 minutes anymore, so it's better for a quick play.

[Isuka]

... Weird alligator guy? creatures of the forest? The fucker gets laughably hit in Advance 3, he wouldn't survive against Tails in Sonic the Fighters. You know, 3D Blast was awful, but at least it was functional. The same goes for Labyrinth, which was so stripped down and unambitious, I think it must have been one of the better Game Gear titles (I even played it a fair bit with Mega Collection Plus). And yes, Sonic R's music sucks... right said Fred, pass me those Britney singles over there!

I certainly hope it's just a sarcastic video, like most Screw Attack videos look to be, if not... well, it actually wouldn't surprise me much. I second Flash, you can ditch the darn link Es.

Concerning the original games, any time I play the first one I do an almost completely different route than the last time, and it certainly feels different in some zones. In Sonic CD, most of the time it feels like it's just one single empty area scantily filled with little pieces of terrain here and there, letting you progress to the right by either below or above some tiny platforms and almost no continuous solid ground (a similar "flaw" can be noticed in Sonic 2, but this time you get more terrain and more predefined paths to follow). Of course, 3 & Knuckles feels like the perfect merge of both formulas, with actual different paths that you can sometimes go back, and they're always gorgeously fast and fun. There's no way in denying it.

[FlashTHD]

Hard as I try, I can't honestly single out any favorite(s) of the Genesis games. That'd be cruel, because they're all equally killer games. I probably shouldn't - it might've been a different story if they weren't made for the same system - but I lob 3D Blast and Spinball into this lot too. The former's plenty enjoyable in its' own right and the latter's one of my favorite takes on pinball ever.

(If I were to coast on technicalities for a moment...I guess 1 and 3&K are the kings.)

Sonic CD...isn't quite worthy. No doubt a vedy slick game, just rough enough around the edges to not qualify for instant recommendation like I would the above group.

[Esrever]

Sonic Advance 3 is certainly my favourite of the GBA games -- it's the only one that has right 'classic' balance of speed, platforming and exploration. For me, that made the advance series' usual problems -- cheap object/pit placement and radically inconsistent art direction -- more bearable than they were in the previous two titles. And the stages where those problems didn't exist, like Sunset Hill, were extremely enjoyable and actually felt like a proper Sonic game!

Haven't played the lower routes much have you?

Oh don't get me wrong. The cheap hits were extremely plentiful in Sonic Advance 3. I just meant that I found them easier to put up with when the rest of the game was more enjoyable. Sonic Advance 1 may have been more forgiving, but it was so much slower and more repetive that I found it's comparative lack of cheapness hard to appreciate. Again, I guess it really depends on what part of the franchise is most important to you!

Sonic 1 is my favourite because of how thoroughly it revels in it's physics engine. Sonic has fewer abilities, but every one of them is useful and thoroughly utilized by the level design. Spring yard is my favourite Sonic stage ever, all because of stuff like this:


Run up the ramp, but jump off to the platform before you hit the spring.


When the spike balls are moving slow, you jump onto the platform. But when they're fast, rolling underneath it is safer.

And remember those massive ditches you could gradually work your way out of by rolling up and down either side? I can't find a picture of them, but I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.


Plus, this is such a great boss fight.

[FlashTHD]

Plus, this is such a great boss fight.

o lawd. First time I beat that, I stumbled into a gap on my way to the prison egg and blew away my last life.

[Locit]

I, too, have snatched such a defeat from the jaws of victory.

I really like the feeling of weight that Sonic has in 1. I can't see it being right for any of the sequels, but it meshes perfectly with the level design. There are also a lot of little secret areas that don't really contain anything other than a few monitors, and some passages that don't really lead anywhere in particular, but I loved finding them. Spring Yard has some of my favorite examples of the latter. It also has some of the best music in the entire series.

[Esrever]

I know what you mean about the weight! I think that feel disappeared with the addition of the spin dash and the instant momentum that came with it. The dash also limited the effectiveness of a lot of these momentum-driven obstacles, like Spring Yard's big ditches or Green Hill Zone's breakable walls.

I love the other Genesis games too, and S3&K is nearly my favourite of the series, but Sonic 1 has this really great pure feel that comes from having the level design built entirely around every one of his abilities. Additional abilities made a lot of Sonic's original move-set, and the strategies you'd use them for, feel totally superfluous. The spin dash negates the need to gain momentum gradually before rolling into a ball, the insta-shield removes the need to wait for enemies to let their guard down ... and now Sonic Rush Adventure has taken it even further, with the Tension Gauge dash making nearly every one of his other abilities less useful, including the spin dash.

[Dasher]

That guy who tought Sonic r was the worst didnt Know you could turn off the lyrics, what a sad person.

And Sonic was "Slow" in Labyrinth because Eggman swithched his shoes with Heavy Shoes, man! people never care about Sonic's story.

The worst game was Shadow, but the worst Sonic game in my opinion was Heroes, it started the down incline of Sonicdom. Ugh.

[THEbigLANDMAN]

They provably don't consider Spinball a Sonic game, that's why it isn't in the top worst...

[Zeta]

And Sonic was "Slow" in Labyrinth because Eggman swithched his shoes with Heavy Shoes, man! people never care about Sonic's story.

You can justify it all you want, it's a retarded concept.

[Esrever]

What actually IS the worst Sonic game? And by worst, I mean the most outright atrociously unplayable Sonic title ever made, period. (Even if there are other Sonic titles might have hurt more because they were more important or had more potential.)

For the sake of sanity, let's leave poorly-implemented ports and weird licensed crap like the Tiger handhelds or those Macdonalds toys, and limit our options to the original iterations of games for the consoles, handheld systems and PC.

[Kogen]

The absolute worst would have to be a Game Gear title, unless I'm forgetting something. I'd limit it down to Sonic Spinball 8-bit, Tails' Sky Patrol, and G Sonic. The Tails game would be a spin-off, so remove that. You could also argue Sonic Spinball isn't a "real" Sonic game. So G Sonic, just like everyone already agrees to?

Even the most absolutely horrible playing Sonic game at least has the correct general concept and isn't an entire bastardisation of the series, however. I'd still throw Shadow in front of it if those exclusions weren't in place.