New NiGHTS

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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Dasher
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Post by Dasher »

Well there is a limit to it, I do not want Nights 3 : Nights the whore.
Last edited by Dasher on Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. SEGA Monkey
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Post by Dr. SEGA Monkey »

BlazeHedgehog wrote: Uh, yeah, okay. It totally looks like an N64 game. I mean, look at the muddy graphics! The blurry textures! Totally looks like an N64 game.

IMHO, this looks better than Secret Rings and I actually had to stop and question whether or not this was for the 360 before seeing the mention that it's platform was Wii exclusive further on in the scans (do note, though, I was basing this entirely on the shot of NiGHTS in the boss arena with the Puffy-looking-Jester - later images of Splash Garden do look less impressive).

Yeah, he's got SA2 fingers. So what? Like there's going to be an amazing amount of close-ups on his hands, or something? Shit, NiGHTS didn't even have individual fingers in the Saturn version.
The backgrounds, to me, look great. I don't have a problem with those. Nicely detailed, etc. It's just the NiGHTS model that's bothering me. His mouth literally looks like it was painted on his face, I can count on one hand the number of polygons in his sleeve cuffs, and his hands are blocky, along with the rest of his body. These problems should've disapeared, (or at least be smaller) when we made the jump into Next Gen. It's like most Wii game developers are using the Wii-mote as an excuse for poor graphics. "Hey, the graphics in our game suck, but we got MOTION SENSING! That's enough to make up for lack of good graphics, right guys!"

IMO, Secret Rings looked incredible for a Wii game. It actually looked Next Gen and not a Gamecube game.

Yes, it may have been extreme and ridiculous for me to compare it to the N64, but don't you think mistaking it for a 360 game is a little ridiculous sounding too?

The reason I'm so worried about the graphics is because it can possibly reflect on how polished the gameplay may be. If the graphics are unpolished and rushed, then maybe gameplay development is unpolished and rushed too.

Also, it could be crappy scan quality or early shots, so I'll just wait and see some clearer screenshots and videos.

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WW
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Post by WW »

Dasher wrote:Well there is a limit to it, I do not want Nights 3 : Nights the whore.
Sounds hot. I'd buy it.

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Pepperidge
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Post by Pepperidge »

At the very least, I hope Sega can wait until next year to actually release the game so they can make sure it has at least some degree of polish. Their audience can wait. They should be aware of that by now.

And where was it said that this was being developed by Sega Studios USA?

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Shadow Hog
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Post by Shadow Hog »

Pepperidge wrote:And where was it said that this was being developed by Sega Studios USA?
The fact Iizuka's heading the design team should be a pretty big hint.

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Plorpus III
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Post by Plorpus III »

WW wrote:
Dasher wrote:Well there is a limit to it, I do not want Nights 3 : Nights the whore.
Sounds hot. I'd buy it.
NiGHTS into Wet Dreams?

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Opa-Opa
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Post by Opa-Opa »

Ok. I translated the Takeshi Iizuka interview from gibberish (that would be Portuguese) to English. I believe there's nothing you don't know about the game already, but feel free to read on.
We interviewed Takeshi Iizuka, one of the people behind NiGHTS into Dreams and the mind behind this sequel, to get some new informations.

How did the idea to create NiGHTS for the new Nintendo console came out?


Takeshi Iizuka (TI) – I’m interested in this sequel since I can remember and the time seemed perfect to work on it. It’s the ideal game to use to advantage all the potential of the Wii controls.

Are we embarking again on the dreams (and nightmares) of Claire and Elliot, or are there new human characters, whose dreams we can visit?

TI – As the original game’s narrative, the new NiGHTS takes place in the dream world, and the *missing words out of the scanned area* will follow the adventures of these children. I hope to announce more details on the next months.

The main character (*missing words* named NiGHTS) will be alone in this mission, or will there be new types of Nightmarens to control?

TI – I can confirm right now that NiGHTS is the main character and will have new abilities I’ll explain later. About the other characters, I can’t reveal them yet. You’ll have to wait and see...

What new acrobatics this charismatic figure’s flight will be able to do?

TI – NiGHTS will have a considerable number of acrobatic moves, lots of them never seen before, for the player to easily control with the Wii. You can count on loops, spins and other moves that are still a surprise by now.

How does the new Nintendo console attract you?

TI – I am particularly enthusiastic seeing all this technological advance and knowing that I can finally, as a programmer, create games in the new platforms that, some years ago, I could only dream about.

We are confessed fans of this likeable character. Do you really think you’ll be able to keep the same attractive towards the public, after all these years?

TI – I hope, above all, that NiGHTS fans like this title as much as the original... I am confident that, with the new features I think about introducing, it will also attract new players that don’t know the world of this character.

What can we wait in terms of game modes?

TI – Besides the single player, that everybody already knows, there will be a two player mode and certain special online functions.

Do you think about taking the NiGHTS inspired experience to other platforms?

TI – For now, this new NiGHTS is exclusive to the Wii.

What other classic licenses, developed by you or the Sonic Team, would you like to bring back to life?

TI – By the time I created NiGHTS I didn’t think of it as a classic license, but I always hoped to dedicate a sequel to it when the right time would come. By now, this is the only series I’d like people to talk about again.
There it is. Enjoy.

Other than that superficial interview, are the subtitles under the pictures. They are saying, repectively:
Life is a dream: If I dreamt like that, I’d never get out of bed.

Underwater trip: Certain levels can happen underwater, just like *missing words*

Bosses: In the end of the levels these Nightmarens will be back with a circus look. The fight with this one in particular promises to be gruesome, but no one denies his sense of aesthetics.

Extras: It would be great to have a handful of extras such as Christmas NiGHTS.

Splash Garden: An original level similar to this where water and air mix themselves.
=)

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BlazeHedgehog
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Post by BlazeHedgehog »

It's just the NiGHTS model that's bothering me. His mouth literally looks like it was painted on his face
Because it was. Why waste 20-30 triangles putting his mouth in to the mesh if:

A) He'll probably never use it (NiGHTS had no dialog in the original or any of his cameo appearances in any of the games).

B) Doing it as a texture looks about as good as it would if they wasted the polygons doing it?
I can count on one hand the number of polygons in his sleeve cuffs
And you'd be surprised how many polygons that sort of shit takes up really quickly, because you have to do the inside of the cuff AND the outside of the cuff, and it's a very rounded sort of edge. In the original NiGHTS? His arm was a triangle. Sure, that was two generations ago, but... so what? Think of it this way: To make the sleeves smoother, they'd have to make something else look even blockier in order to compensate.
and his hands are blocky, along with the rest of his body.
I'll give you his hands are blocky, and so are his cuffs, but overall he isn't that blocky. It could have been a lot worse.
These problems should've disapeared, (or at least be smaller) when we made the jump into Next Gen. It's like most Wii game developers are using the Wii-mote as an excuse for poor graphics.
Did you miss the memo somewhere? The Wii doesn't even have half the power of an Xbox 360. It has been very clear since day one that the Wii maybe approaches the level of hardware found in the original Xbox. Don't go setting the graphics bar for the Wii with the PS3. Set it with, say... Jet Set Radio Future. Panzer Dragoon Orta. When compared with those, this looks as good, if not better. (though many people tell me how drop-dead amazing Orta looked, any time I ever saw it in motion in preview videos or the like it never really floored me that much.)
Yes, it may have been extreme and ridiculous for me to compare it to the N64, but don't you think mistaking it for a 360 game is a little ridiculous sounding too?
After seeing this?:

Image

Compared to the last Sonicteam game on the Xbox 360...

Image

The NiGHTS engine has a decent lighting engine, whatever relative of Puffy is floating around in there has pretty crisp and detailed textures - seems like some bump mapping, too. The NiGHTS model shows a fairly detailed character up close and the textures aren't blurring out too badly, and there's specular highlighting on the boots (which gives them that shiny look, like silk).

Everything looks very crisp, very clean, high resolution...

Yeah. It would be pretty easy to mistake that for a 360 game, based on that one shot.
The reason I'm so worried about the graphics is because it can possibly reflect on how polished the gameplay may be. If the graphics are unpolished and rushed, then maybe gameplay development is unpolished and rushed too.
Again, this is the Wii. This looks better than a lot of what Sonicteam put out on the Gamecube, and, I think, looks better than Secret Rings in spots (I thought levels like Pirate Storm in Secret Rings looked awful, actually).

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gr4yJ4Y
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Post by gr4yJ4Y »

I'm completely dissappointed with MotorStorm. It doesn't look any better than an N64 game. Same goes for Metal Gear Solid 4. And Reality. Reality doesn't look any better than an N64 game. An N64 game is what all beauty is judged by.

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EmeraldGuardian
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Post by EmeraldGuardian »

Which is one of the many reasons why Twilight Princess sucks while OoT is still the best. Strangely, the better quality something is visually, it seems to be worse. I don't know, compare cartoons from the 50s.

Nights' costume is a little eh, and I honestly don't trust it to be good but we'll see. The enviroments are awfully "classic Nights" so they seem to get the element down. Now if only they could make Sonic colorful ad less angsty like before.

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Locit
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Post by Locit »

EmeraldGuardian wrote:Which is one of the many reasons why Twilight Princess sucks while OoT is still the best. Strangely, the better quality something is visually, it seems to be worse. I don't know, compare cartoons from the 50s.
So... bad visuals make something good, except in cartoons, where arguably better animation is a positive quality. I see.

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EmeraldGuardian
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Post by EmeraldGuardian »

No not at all, but I see that people today put most of their effort into what a game LOOKS like rather than how it plays. OoT was all blocks but the elements and gameplay were ingenius. In the old cartoons, you could have racism, sex, alchohal, Pluto passing out with a gun in his arm and ketchup spilled as Mickey cries over him and you'd have something gold. Picture would look scratchy and old while the animation and story is well planned. Today we get perfect picture quality, with either flash or goddam sucky animation with no wellthought plot.

In short, the industry is lazy as hell. But anyway I'm trying to explain how the games are the same way. What was once bad graphics but fun as hell, is now superawesomerealism without any good sense of control, elements, or story. I look for a little more in such things than OOOH SHINY.

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Dr. SEGA Monkey
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Post by Dr. SEGA Monkey »

No not at all, but I see that people today put most of their effort into what a game LOOKS like rather than how it plays. OoT was all blocks but the elements and gameplay were ingenius.
True, but keep in mind that back then, OoT wasn't just considered "all blocks", it was considered to be a very impressive looking game. So really, the developers WERE putting a lot of effort into graphics for that game. Same applies to animation, although I think that most Flash animated cartoons look like crap compared to the superior and definitely better looking cel animation cartoons....but whatever.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this will be a success. It's not like they're changing the core gameplay elements or anything like that. All their answers are right in front of them....the original NiGHTS. As long as they use it as a reference constantly, everything will be fine, and by looking at those screenshots, they obviously are. (re-used level design, enemy design)

In short, NiGHTS' gameplay is simple, so there's a slim chance of screwing up remaking it.

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Opa-Opa
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Post by Opa-Opa »

Dr. SEGA Monkey wrote:All their answers are right in front of them....the original NiGHTS.
That's true. They can't go pretty much away unless they WANT to make something very diferent. I think the only game I can remember that completely changed its playstyle from the original to the sequel was Toe Jam & Earl, but that was due to the 90s being so hyped with plataformers, and SEGA.

Thing is, when developers reference to Sonic games, they go straight to the 3D games. Nights doesn't have much of an option but the original. Unless they make NiGHTS 2: Pinball into Dreams.

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G.Silver
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Post by G.Silver »

The original TJ&E is a Rogue-alike! I was surprised when I made that connection. I never thought I'd prefer a Rogue clone over a platformer but TJ&E 2, well, there you have it...

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BlazeHedgehog
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Post by BlazeHedgehog »

I like TJnE2 more than the first. Probably the only person on the planet who thinks that way.

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cjmcray
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Post by cjmcray »

BlazeHedgehog wrote:I like TJnE2 more than the first. Probably the only person on the planet who thinks that way.
Me too, so you're not alone.

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EspioKaos
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Post by EspioKaos »

According to Japanese gaming site eg, the NiGHTS sequel will be going by the tentative title of NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams. Click the link above for the logo and some artwork.

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Dr. SEGA Monkey
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Post by Dr. SEGA Monkey »

I love the logo and I love the render.

Image

Must....have....more....

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Dr. SEGA Monkey
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Post by Dr. SEGA Monkey »

....aaaand....the official site is up, but doesn't really give any new info.

Official site.
The critically-acclaimed franchise that gave gamers the freedom to fly in a world of dreams is coming to the Wiiâ„¢! As a fantasy jester called NiGHTS, you will experience a heightened sense of gliding, spiraling, and looping through seven extraordinary worlds of Nightopia where the ocean resides in the sky and glass-formed cliffs overlook a castle of mirrors. When the "Nightmarens" from the neighboring dark world of Nightmare infiltrate the idyllic Nightopia, NiGHTS must defend the dream world to keep it safe for all dreamers. This holiday, NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams will take you in a voyage filled with courage, hope and inspiration.
It's a Fall 2007 release here in America. w00t!

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One Classy Bloke
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Post by One Classy Bloke »

All the current info seems to imply a straight remake. A touch disappointing, but we all know Sega's track record.

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Arcade
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Post by Arcade »

1- Is yhe new Nights game is going to suck?

Yes, probably

2-Are we going to buy it?

Yeah, because is Nights!

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Squirrelknight
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Post by Squirrelknight »

LAAAAAAAAAAAME.

And yeah, I came back to the GHZ just to post that. As much as I love NiGHTS, given ST's recent track record, I'll wait for some reviews on this one.

Also:
The main character (*missing words* named NiGHTS) will be alone in this mission, or will there be new types of Nightmarens to control?

TI – I can confirm right now that NiGHTS is the main character and will have new abilities I’ll explain later. About the other characters, I can’t reveal them yet. You’ll have to wait and see...
If by that he means there'll be other playable characters, that'll pretty much seal the deal that this game will suck. We all know how the modern Sonic Team likes to add in completely unneccessary, completely annoying playable characters to their games.

This announcement was pretty exciting until I remembered Sonic Team was going to develop it.

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Zeta
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Post by Zeta »

If by that he means there'll be other playable characters, that'll pretty much seal the deal that this game will suck. We all know how the modern Sonic Team likes to add in completely unneccessary, completely annoying playable characters to their games.
Yeah, the original Nights games didn't have a bunch of playable characters besides NiGHTs. Well, except Claris. And Eliot. And Reala. And SONIC . . .

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Psxphile
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Post by Psxphile »

If they're willing to dig up <i>NiGHTS</i> and have another go at it, then perhaps <i>Shin Seiki Burning Rangers</i> may still see the light of day.

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