Sonic the Hedgehog (nextgen) media

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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Delphine
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Post by Delphine »

PSMad wrote:Of course, most of the levels were a pain.
Fixed.

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PSMad
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Post by PSMad »

Running through the first level felt the best any level in a Sonic game had felt since moving to 3D. It kept you moving forwards, there were multiple routs and it gently eased you into the whole team-play thing. Most of the levels were like this bar the ones with big set pieces: Hang Castle and the forest thingy included. Thus they lead you down a path and bored you.

If the new Sonic keeps the utterly huge Heroes levels with multiple routs, keeps the speed up and tries to follow a small number of characters keeping the story cohesive, it'll be the best 3D sonic game yet.

Heroes story (or lack there of) was its worst part, Amy's team being the second.

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Post by Ngangbius »

Nay, the worst part of Heroes was how glitchy and rushed it felt which leads me to a related concern I have about Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. I have a feeling that this game will be riddled with bugs and other technical problems because Sega/Sonic Team is planning on a worldwide release on June 23--meaning rush job. =/

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PSMad
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Post by PSMad »

The demo had one glairing glitch, when Sonic ran fast over a brick bridge on one of the videos the camera panned a bit low showing some clipping through the bridge. I let it off because it's only early days but you don't really want to be showing off things like that on the TGS floor.

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Post by Esrever »

Sonic Heroes only had "multiple routes" in the most shallow possible sense. Shallow in that the alternate routes were really more like slight shortcuts or side paths, and shallow in that they were nigh indistinguishable from the main routes because they were comprised of the same cookie cutter elevated walkways, dull repeating textures and cheap bottomless pit deaths as the rest of the game.

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PSMad
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Post by PSMad »

Yet finding some of these routs could increase your rank at the end of a level: with more rings, bonuses and shortcuts to bring down your time. They weren’t perfect or even that great. I remember Sonic 3 where some levels seemed like 2 different levels depending on if you took the high or low road. We need some of that please.

The fact still stands the better levels in SH had more of these short cuts.

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Owen Axel
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Post by Owen Axel »

The fact stands, sure enough, but only because Sonic Heroes didn't have any "better levels". The level of mediocrity was fairly stable throughout.

And the game definitely did not have any multiple routes. It had shortcuts, and few of those were helpful at all.

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Post by PSMad »

It wasnt the abomination people are claiming. Many people got fun out of it, it got good reviews and sold well. It's still got the best level design of all the 3D Sonic games to date. The levels in SA1 and SA2 feel small and incoheirent compared to the 'proper' sized Heroes levels.

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Post by Omni Hunter »

Maybe, but SA1 and 2 definitely had true alternate paths.
Heroes was incoherent in level design, structure and flow.
At least in SA1 there was a coherent flow throughout and between the levels unlike Heroes "from casino to haunted house to jungle" structure.
Yes, Heroes levels were larger but they werent truelly challenging.

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Post by Double-S- »

Because everybody knows that good sales numbers means a good game.

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Post by Frieza2000 »

PSMad wrote:It's still got the best level design of all the 3D Sonic games to date.
Image

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Post by Opa-Opa »

Omni Hunter wrote:At least in SA1 there was a coherent flow throughout and between the levels unlike Heroes "from casino to haunted house to jungle" structure.
Amazingly, this is a lot like "from Marble Zone to Spring Yard to Labyrinth to Star Light"

I mean, what I really liked about Sonic Heroes was it's attempt to bring back that surrealism that the Genesis games had.

But let's set one thing straight.

Giant pinball level = Good.
All levels being a giant bridge with tremendous gaps = Bad.
Big the Cat + Amy + Cream = Bad

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Zeta
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Post by Zeta »

Big the Cat = Good

Fixed.

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Post by Nova »

A 3D sonic 1? Only Eggman vs Sonic?. Is a good idea, but the other characters have to be in the new game, even if they just make cameos or help you to pass some levels, to keep fans happy.

Un Sonic 1 en 3D? Solo Eggman vs Sonic?. Es una buena idea, pero los otros personajes tienen que salir, incluso si solo hace cameos o te ayudan a pasar algunos niveles, para así mantener a los fanáticos felices.

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Post by G.Silver »

I liked playing as Team Rose because the levels didn't seem so bland and boring when they were half as long as they were when playing as the other characters.

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Post by Ngangbius »

^Ditto.

There were times when I was playing as Team Sonic thinking "when will this stupid level end?"

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Post by PSMad »

Double-S- wrote:Because everybody knows that good sales numbers means a good game.
No, good sales figures mean that people out there actually bought and liked the game despite it's flaws.

Care to throw in an example there Frieza2000?

I don't think there's been a truly challenging level since Sonic left the Genesis... Final Rush was frustrating as I hated missing the rails by a centimetre and falling to my doom. Once you got the hang of the constant rail action it became a breeze to speed through.

I love the idea of keeping the game Sonic vs Eggman but agree some of the other characters should show as helpers like in Shadow or in the story like Amy in SA2.

Oh, and I still despise Team Rose with a passion. Team Darks levels are easily my favourite.

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Post by Segaholic2 »

PSMad wrote:No, good sales figures mean that people out there actually bought and liked the game despite it's flaws.
Are you kidding me? Superman 64 sold extremely well, and as everyone in the whole world knows, the game was a steaming pile of shit.

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Post by PSMad »

So why did so many people buy the thing?

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Post by Segaholic2 »

Because they're stupid.

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Zeta
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Post by Zeta »

So why did so many people buy the thing?
Because people will often buy a product for superficial reasons, rather than quality.

You're more likely to hear: "Hey! It's got Superman/Sonic/Boobs on the package! Me wantee!" than "I've heard from several reliable sources and consumer reports that this product is worth my money."

Duh.

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PSMad
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Post by PSMad »

But truly bad games don't sell. I'm not trying to make out like Heroes was brilliant here but that it was good enough for it to sell well because it did something right; maybe had some ideas that people liked and was actually fun. You might not have liked it but plenty of people did. If it was truly broken it wouldn't have sold.

Just throwing a desirable icon on a cover won't sell your game (Tomb Raider: Angel Of Darkness, stand up).

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Zeta
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Post by Zeta »

Just throwing a desirable icon on a cover won't sell your game (Tomb Raider: Angel Of Darkness, stand up).
Not in the long run, no. But aside from that, it works.

Again, Tomb Raider - stand up.


And heroes wasn't attrocious. It wasn't an "F" game. It was more like D+/C-. But it was still a dissapointment. SA was like A-, and SA2 was a solid B . . .

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Post by PSMad »

I don’t recall Leisure Suit Larry, Playboy the Mansion, Cy Girls, Rumble Roses et all ever being mentioned for their astounding ability to shift units. If a game is broken it doesn’t matter who’s on the cover it won’t sell. The opposite is the exception rather than the rule.

All the 3D Sonic’s have been disappointing in one way or another. To me Heroes just felt better than SA2.

The storyline was top notch but there was too much meaningless messing about in mechs and treasure hunting. It's the only game I remember feeling like I had hardily spent any time with our hero. It didn't sit right with me and Heroes felt... better. I feel it did more to capture the essence of a Sonic game than SA2.

A nudge in the right direction rather than an epiphany but ultimately flawed genius. Still, I sit with my appendages crossed that Sonic 2006 will be closer to the Sonic game I imagine playing in my head.

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Post by Frieza2000 »

PSMad wrote:If a game is broken it doesn’t matter who’s on the cover it won’t sell. The opposite is the exception rather than the rule.
I don't know what kind of experience you're drawing this from, if any, but you're wrong, and obviously so.

That said, many people did enjoy Heroes. Most of these people were below age 12 and the rest simply have no taste. It was a 2d obstacle course implemented in a 3d environment, not a platformer, and its vapid music, bland visuals, and abysmal dialogue complimented the gameplay. If you think it was fun, that's great. But if you think it was well designed, then I'd say you're unable to distinguish superior from mediocre. Which isn't bad or shameful; if anything it's allowed you to enjoy something we can't.
PSMad wrote:It didn't sit right with me and Heroes felt... better. I feel it did more to capture the essence of a Sonic game than SA2.
All condescension and disagreement aside, I'd really like to know what you feel is the essence of Sonic. What was your first Sonic game, and your favorite? What version of the characters' personalities do you like best (tv shows, comics, adventure games, old manuals)? I'm curious.

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