You can stop holding your breath

Updates to the front page of the site are in here.

Postby FlashTHD » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:07 pm

Ran through the Sonic 3/S&K pages and found little errors and omissions aplenty.

Something I don't get is why there aren't sprites for the shield jump attacks. The shields themselves definitely have unique sprites for when you perform the attack.
Shell Star (シェルスター) -- Stationary clam bots that fire spiked balls straight forward. The only way to destroy them is to roll into them

...from the front. The back is as protected as the top. It's risky unless you have any type of shield, which of course swats away its' projectiles.

Angel Island Zone's description is a little bare outside of the story events and an uneccessary reference to the "run from the nukes" sequence when that's already covered at the boss. I would think the swinging vines and logs floating down the platforms would be worth even a minor mention.
Eggman rides around at the top of the arena in his unfortunately named boss contraption, hovering just out of reach. As he travels, he chucks bombs into the water. Don't touch the bombs, but jump into the big splash that the explosions create: if you time your jump right, you should be sent high enough into the air to land a hit on the Doc. If that's too much trouble, you can wait for his second attack. Every once in a bit, he lowers himself down to the water's surface and stirs up a whirlpool that draws Sonic/Tails toward the apex. As Eggman rises back into the air, a waterspout is pulled up with him. The sides of the spount inflict damage, but the top acts as a platform which can be used to reach Eggman. Be fast, though, it subsides quickly.

Er, these attacks are out of sequence. First he tries to pull you in with the spout, then comes the depth charge barrage. There's a change for this boss when playing as Knuckles: Eggrobo doesn't need to drop down to pull the spout up.

It's small, but maybe worth mentioning that Marble Garden is the only stage in Sonic 3 with no water.
In the middle of Act 2, Knuckles will show up to knock the lights out, which is less of a handicap than you'd think.

Actually it is. Hitting that switch flooded the stage.
After 7 hits, the platform breaks off and Eggman lowers himself down to finish the job - during this phase, the frosty puffs of doom are constantly being spouted at the bottom and back of the Eggmobile, leaving the front as the only vulnerable point to land that last hit.

After 6 hits, and last two hits.
The ball will fire randomly from above or below the platform, so you need to react quickly if you're in the line of fire.

It shoots in a basic top-bottom-top-ect. pattern. The way the cannonballs are fired also isn't random (like the way Mecha Sonic's attacks are predetermined in Sonic 2), and simply takes some memorization.

There's some pretty substantial differences between the 5 vs. mode courses, so I have to wonder why they aren't laid out...
When the Sega logo comes up, just after the "Sega" theme is chanted and the screen begins to turn black, quickly press: Up, Up, Down, Down, Up, Up, Up, Up to the beat of the drums.

As someone else here pointed out before, it's not to the beat of the drums but to each frame of animation in the intro.

And the S&K page:
Flame Barrier (フレイムバリア) - Protects against 1 hit, deflects projectiles, negates fire damage, and allows Sonic to perform the Hi no Tama Dash. Dissipates upon submerging.
Aqua Barrier (アクアバリア) - Protects against 1 hit, deflects projectiles, allows Sonic/Tails to breathe underwater, and allows Sonic to perform the Renzoku Bound
Thunder Barrier (サンダーバリア) - Protects against 1 hit, deflects projectiles, negates electrical damage, magnetically attracts nearby Rings, and allows Sonic to perform the 2 Dan Jump. Dissipates upon submerging.

Oops. S&K has no underwater areas and Tails is party hardying elsewhere.
Scorp (スコープ) -- Scorpion bots that roll back and forth, occasionally pausing to whip out their probing stingers at nearby hedgehogs. It's a very difficult attack to avoid.

Easiest way to crack them with a frontal assault is to rush in quickly and break into a roll when they yank their stingers back.
All you can do here is avoid the laser and wait for the overpowered blaster to destroy the whole stinking ship, then chase Eggman to an exterior platform.

No credit to the obstacle course inbetween that forces you to be fast or be flat?

Lava Reef Act 2 has an almost entirely different set of obstacles than Act 1, certainly more than the sweeping flames.
He dashes from one side of the screen to the other, either in upright pose or in a spiky spin attack. He'll mix up his maneuvers randomly, so there's no telling whether he's going to dash straight along the ground, spin through the air, spin and bounce off the ground, or even dash backwards.

The backwards dash is random. The other three aren't.

That massive paragraph with details on Sky Sanctuary's Mecha Sonic fight is a bit intimidating to read at that text size. Don't you think Knuckles' exclusive second round should be in a second paragraph?

For the Death Ball, another way to send a rolling bomb flying is to roll into it yourself when it's tipped over opposite the current gravity setting.
After a short while, the meteor shower ends and you'll catch up with Eggman's space vessel. The machine fires flashing projectiles and homing lasers - either one will stun Sonic, and since they tend to hit in rapid succession, even a single hit can blow the fight.

Another factor than can ruin you is that there aren't any rings during that portion of the fight. You're running on whatever time limit you built up in the meteor shower.

In the Sonic 2 w/ Knuckles description, you forgot to mention that the Special Stages are half as difficult due to the ring requirements being slashed.

For Hyper Sonic's jump dash, you can also hold Up or Down while doing it to dash in those directions.

One last thing: It might be useful to compile a list of which combinations result in what for any level with slot machines. What do you think?
-------------------------------
Phew. I'll dump the other pages on you guys. BTW, what's the status on the Encyclopedia? It still thinks the GHZ is sitting on EmuZone...
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:49 pm

Reparations complete and only 4 toes remaining. Am feeling very faint.

BTW, what's the status on the Encyclopedia?


That's on the backburner until all the museum pages are updated. Plus, I'm a couple of years behind in the continuity... still haven't played anything beyond Sonic Advance 3.


On a slightly related note, I stumbled across this a while back: http://cis.qp.land.to/logs/soundpage/New_member.pdf

Scroll down to Takenobu Mitsuyoshi's profile (second from the top) and under the section that lists the games he's worked on, it mentions Wakuwaku Sonic Patrol Car. The exact text reads: わくわくソニックパトカー(AC):ソニックの声が「うる星やつら」のあたるの声。現ワウワークスのゲーム。

I can't translate it except that it says something about Sonic's voice and Ataru's voice from Urusei Yatsura. I assume Mitsuyoshi provided Sonic's voice for the game, but what's the connection between that and homeboy Moroboshi?
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Re: You can stop holding your breath

Postby Arcade » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:43 pm

Pepperidge wrote:This is my first update on the site in quite a while, and the main reason for that is likely that there just hasn't been anything to say. Or rather, it may just because I'm afraid of saying something in a time when the option of sitting back and praying that everything is finally going to work out for our beloved Sonic is much more attractive. Topics like anime in Canada are much more comfortable for me to talk about simply because it's a subject that doesn't carry an unsettling undertone of a world we love lingering on the brink of absolute collapse.

We may not want to face it, but here in the end of 2006, we may finally reached the exemplar of absolute destruction that we've dreaded for so long. TGS has come and gone, and not so much as a mention of NiGHTS tenth anniversary has surfaced amidst the violent whoring of Sonic's 15th, and one would hope that the Sonic's benchmark entry into the admittedly nifty world of high-definition would be the one lingering possibility for extrication of the entire franchise and all that is connected to it. A lot of people thought that hearing the somewhat unexpected appearance of a "Sweet Sweet Sweet" remix tacked onto the end of the latest trailer for Sonic the Hedgehog showed some hope that the important things haven't been forgotten.

Unfortunately, it looks like Masato Nakamura might be better off wearing a sack over his head for the rest of his career. The demo for Sonic the Hedgehog released this past day on Xbox Live's Marketplace, which should at this point show promise for a game only two months away from release, sucks massive Biolizard cock. Very hard.

I haven't played it myself, but this video should tell more than any kind of description I could personally give. While it looks like the light dash has been improved (and that's always been an area I've personally wanted to see refinement), the camera appears to be the worst ever, and combined with the clunky and unnecessarily handicapped homing dash, the gameplay has just become incredibly stilted and, most importantly, not fast.

This isn't just bad, this is an insult. Sega, I beg of you: delay this game until next year. Getting the game in time for the PS3 launch isn't worth this kind of trauma. Because if this demo is anything to go by, it's something the entire fandom is going to feel, and they're not even going to need to pick up a copy of the game.

Does anyone else have anything to say on the front page? Because I think now would be a good time to say it.


Sega only listens to the Sonic fangs….

Sonic fang: A “Sonicfangâ€￾ is much like a Sonic fan, but he uses his fangs to get every Sonic thing he can, not caring if he loses allies or destroy the universe in the process." He also has the weirdest ideas like “OMG; I would love to see a Shadow game where he uses a gun!â€￾ and unfortunately tends to be the only kind of Sonic fan Sega ever listens…

Edit.

I almost forgot to say that most Sonic fangs living in USA tend to keep the awful Sonic Archie comic alive by buying it, he is also a beggar for fan art and cameos, but never offers nothing in exchange.
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Postby G.Silver » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:38 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:The exact text reads: わくわくソニックパトカー(AC):ソニックの声が「うる星やつら」のあたるの声。現ワウワークスのゲーム。


It says that Sonic's voice is Ataru's voice. It means he used the same voice for both characters, maybe? I couldn't hear any voices clearly when I played the game in Japan.
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:34 am

That's what I kept getting out of it, except when has Mitsuyoshi ever provided the voice for Ataru? Unless it means that Toshio Furukawa (anime voice of Ataru) was the voice of Sonic in Patrol Car, but then why would that credit be under Mitsuyoshi's name? Could it mean maybe that Mitsuyoshi modelled Sonic's voice after Furukawa's Ataru?

Sonic does actually sound a little bit like Ataru.
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Postby big_smile » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:30 pm

Here is some of information that might be useful for the mobile section of the Sonic the Hedgehog page.

According to Hari Hari, the mobile version contains several differences to its console counterpart:
-The robots do not release animals
-Many of the robots are missing
-A save system has been added
-The game offers unlimited continues
-The level select cheat does not function

The game was originally bundled with the Panasonic FOMA P701iD and P901iS. Only the Green Hill Zone was included, but the other levels could be downloaded once this level had been completed. Both phones also contained two original screen savers:

Image
(Image courtesy of Hari Hari)

Although the game was the central selling point of the phones, there were no action buttons on either unit. As a result, the up button was used for jumping, which made it uncomfortable to play.

The Sonic hacking community manage to extract tiles for the UFOs that were supposed to appear in Marble Zone. These tiles are not present in the original Mega Drive release, which suggests that mobile port derived from prototype code.
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:06 pm

I guess one of us is eventually going to have to give that dude a handjob or something. What about the mobile version of Sonic 2? I know that one has Special Stages, at least.

If the enemies don't drop frolicking animals, what's going on in this screenshot?

<img src="http://www.sonicteam.com/cafe/hedgehog/image11.gif">
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Postby big_smile » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:09 pm

If the enemies don't drop frolicking animals, what's going on in this screenshot?

That's odd! Hari Hari tested the version that was built into the Panasonic FOMA P701iD. Perhaps it was different from the standard version.

What about the mobile version of Sonic 2? I know that one has Special Stages, at least.

As far as I know, he hasn't yet obtained a copy of the game. Has it actually been released? It's not listed on the Sega.jp Sonic Cafe page.

Edit: According to Sonic Channel, the release details are currently undecided.
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Postby FlashTHD » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:05 pm

Some other things (so I had the free time to check :p)...

Sonic 1
- Special Rings stop appearing after Star Light Act 2.
- Bonus point markers don't appear in Scrap Brain Act 2. There's a programming error with the 100-point ones; they only award 10 points.
- Spring Yard didn't have flippers...
- You forgot to mention the giant rotating wheels in Scrap Brain Act 2 that you can stick to, run around, and build up momentum on.

Sonic 1 8-bit
- Breaking Item Boxes is worth 100 points.
- "The Chaos Emerald can be found about halfway through Act 1, near the bottom of a large waterfall." ...where you'll need to hitch a ride on a floating log and roll it over to the alcove where the Emerald is (depicted in one of your own screenshots, even).
- You get a major jackpot of points at the end of the game for getting the good ending. I forgot how much.
- The time limit in the Special Stages isn't determined by Act entered. There are three stage layouts with two variations each. Ex.: The fourth stage is the first one with trickier object placement and less time to clear it. The more difficult variations all have halved time limits.

Sonic CD
- You can deflect Kama-kama's blades by spinning.
- The water strider bots from Tidal Tempest also pause to shoot a projectile occasionally.
- In Wacky Workbench's boss, you can leap through the broken ceilings from underneath; no crush death risk apparent. (The hole is there for show.)
- Metal Sonic has a second attack: If he's in the lead, he'll surround himself with a damaging electric barrier to ward you off.
- The last boss has some forms of attack you missed. With four, three or two panels left, he'll (inbetween bouts of rolling on the floor or firing panels off) drop down and stretch the panels out, leaving you a small window of attack. With one left, he'll take the pogo stick approach and hops at you from one side of the screen to the other.
- I found one of my Tips & Tricks codebooks, which had a few pages of cheats for the Sega CD. According to Sonic CD's entry, here are the exact times you need to get under to unlock stuff through the Time Attack:
37'27"57: D.A. Garden
30'21"05: Play Special Stages in Time Attack
25'46"12: Visual Mode
- If you used the Level Select to access a stage, you'll be dumped back at the title screen when you clear a stage or use a time warp.
- Debug Mode works on the PC version, but is 2/3rds functional. There's no third button to place objects with.
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Postby Sniffnoy » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:55 pm

You can't get to the special stage from Scrap Brain Act 1?
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Postby Shadow Hog » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:34 pm

FlashTHD wrote:- Debug Mode works on the PC version, but is 2/3rds functional. There's no third button to place objects with.

As I recall, the PC version was fine, it was <i>Gems</i> that was screwed up.
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Postby FlashTHD » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:39 pm

Shadow Hog wrote:
FlashTHD wrote:- Debug Mode works on the PC version, but is 2/3rds functional. There's no third button to place objects with.

As I recall, the PC version was fine, it was <i>Gems</i> that was screwed up.

News to me if there's a keyboard button assigned to C. I think the game itself lets you assign just two action buttons and the directional controls.
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Postby James McGeachie » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:46 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:... still haven't played anything beyond Sonic Advance 3.


Even if you never touch Shadow, Riders and whatever else has came out recently that slips my mind, you should try out Sonic Rush at least. Whether or not you'd like it enough to actually consider it a good game I have absolutely no idea about, however it's easily the least shitty out of all the garbage that's came out in the last couple of years.....which I suppose really isn't saying much now but well...yeah, you should still give it a shot.
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Postby CE » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:31 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:What about the mobile version of Sonic 2? I know that one has Special Stages, at least.


Meh? Mobile Sonic 2's not even in DEV yet. I would have heard about that.
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Postby Shadow Hog » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:37 pm

So that fully-polygonal 3D special stage was just a mock-up, then?

I suppose it wouldn't be hard to make one, but I'd have to ask <i>why</i>.

FlashTHD wrote:
Shadow Hog wrote:
FlashTHD wrote:- Debug Mode works on the PC version, but is 2/3rds functional. There's no third button to place objects with.

As I recall, the PC version was fine, it was <i>Gems</i> that was screwed up.

News to me if there's a keyboard button assigned to C. I think the game itself lets you assign just two action buttons and the directional controls.

IIRC, it was either Space, Esc and Enter, or Space, Esc and C. I can't try it now since I lack <i>Sonic CD</i> (left it at home), but still.
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:19 am

Meh? Mobile Sonic 2's not even in DEV yet. I would have heard about that.


At all? So the screenshots on <a href="http://sonic.sega.jp/games/mobile/sonic2/index.html">this page</a> are mock-ups?
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:54 am

I double checked and it seems that the P902iS models have been out since June 6. Sonic 2 is supposed to be pre-installed according to every piece of promotional material I've read, so unless they decided to remove it at the very last minute (which would be odd), it must be out.

You get a major jackpot of points at the end of the game for getting the good ending. I forgot how much.


20,000 points per Emerald. That information was already there.

I found one of my Tips & Tricks codebooks, which had a few pages of cheats for the Sega CD.


I'm not sure how reliable Tips & Tricks is. Those time quotas seem pretty arbitrary. Everything else, anyway, has been fixed.
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Postby FlashTHD » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:26 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:
You get a major jackpot of points at the end of the game for getting the good ending. I forgot how much.


20,000 points per Emerald. That information was already there.

Not that one; wasn't there another?

Edit: Ah, here we go. 150,000 extra points for the good ending.
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:41 pm

Well, fuck me then.
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Postby big_smile » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:01 am

Green Gibbon! wrote:I double checked and it seems that the P902iS models have been out since June 6. Sonic 2 is supposed to be pre-installed according to every piece of promotional material I've read, so unless they decided to remove it at the very last minute (which would be odd), it must be out.



SoJ announced today that the game is going to be distributed via Sonic Cafe, for the FOMA902i/903i phones. The 903i version will feature additional 'attack modes' and power-ups. There is no mention of the P902is version.
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Postby FlashTHD » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:26 pm

Pop them open with a spin to procure one of six power-ups along with a 100 point bonus at the end-of-Act tally

Close. It just seems that way because the HUD has no score display.
The third stage takes place in an underground cavern. Once again, there are no obstacles, just alot of chutes and Muteki Item Boxes. It's extremely straightforward, so as long as you don't dawdle, it's easy breezy.

Not exactly. To get the emerald, you have to hold up as you come to a hard-to-see junction that speeds past pretty quickly. If you don't hit it, you won't make it. Simple, yes, but not if you don't know what to do. Hint, hint.
Land 8 hits to destroy the room of doom, score a 100,000 point clear bonus, and rob Eggman of his precious yellow Chaos Emerald.

This kind of bonus isn't unique to just Atomic Destroyer; it's awarded at the end of every boss act in Sonic & Tails/2. For S&T1, pay really close attention to the score when you get sent to the end-of-act bonuses...right away it'll shoot up by a certain amount before quickly starting to pile on the time and ring bonuses. In S&T2 it's a lot easier; the boss bonus is added after the regular two and you don't need Superman reflexes to pause the emulator in time and see how much it was.

How many extra points you get varies from zone to zone. Of course it's not much in, say, Turquiose Hill, but the later act threes give away more than the last. The only one I remember for certain is Atomic Destroyer's, which actually isn't 100,000 - it's 101,000 :p (There may have been a little something in the hundreds and tens digits too, but that's just barely trivial enough to escape my memory.)

Finally, the time and ring bonuses in S&T2 max out 9,900 each, and when you exit a Special Stage, the clock resets to 0 (all too convenient if the Warp Gate box was right at the end of the act.)
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Postby Green Gibbon! » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:14 pm

Damage repaired. The bonus in S&T 1 starts at 5000 points for Turquoise Hill with an additional 5000 added for each stage up to Aqua Planet (25,000), but there is no score tally after Electric Egg, or at least not with the bad ending. Do you get your final score in the good ending? I don't remember.

In S&T 2 the bonus is 5000 points for every stage except Atomic Destroyer, which is 100,000. (The extra points you saw must've been from some Rings or something you had, as all those points are added up before the clear bonus is tacked on.)
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Postby Kai-Kakoon » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:23 am

FlashTHD wrote:Edit: Ah, here we go. 150,000 extra points for the good ending.

I'm pretty sure that one has to do with how many Special Stages you've finished throughout the course of the game, seeing as I remember that score varying when I missed some of them. I could be wrong though, but I might confirm this later.

While we're still on the subject of nitpicking (Sonic 3):

Pola (ポーラ) -- Sphere bots basically identical to Uni-uni except for color. They hover around in the air with varying patterns of stop-go motion

Their patterns aren't as erratic as they seem. They will only move if you're moving, so if you stop, they will as well. But that's so minor I'm not even sure it was worth mentioning.
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Postby FlashTHD » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:57 pm

Kai-Kakoon wrote:But that's so minor I'm not even sure it was worth mentioning.

Welcome, alien visitor, to The GHZ.
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Postby Shadow Hog » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:14 pm

Welcome. Welcome to The GHZ.

You have chosen, or been chosen, to relocate to one of our finest remaining message boards. I thought so much of The GHZ that I elected to establish my account here, in the forums so thoughtfully provided by our benefactors. I have been proud to call The GHZ my home. And so, whether you are here to stay, or passing through on your way to parts unknown, welcome to The GHZ. It's cooler here.
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