The GHZ Forum

I think I'll enjoy playing this game and this is what matters most.

Ok, maybe the aliens are too stupid.

Professor Machenstein wrote:nobody likes the forest and haunted mansion levels.

I like the forest and haunted mansion levels.

Opa-Opa wrote:

Professor Machenstein wrote:nobody likes the forest and haunted mansion levels.

I like the forest and haunted mansion levels.

I shouldn't make general statements. I just didn't like the feel of Frog Forest - Mystic Mansion. They just felt tedious to me. As for Casino Park and BINGO Highway, they both would have passed if those pinball boards were easier to control.

I must go off-topic. There's something we havn't debated. Is Shadow the Hedgehog the Sonic 2K5 Yuji Naka told Nintendo UK Megazine about, or is it a different game? Discuss. King Boom Boo demands it.

Professor Machenstein wrote:

CE wrote:

Professor Machenstein wrote:One of us here is a potential SEGA employee,

And who is that?

Er, just one of us. You, me, someone else here, anyone. I dream of developing games with those at SEGA. If not SEGA, then I'll develop games elsewhere.

Probabily not myself. My nightmare job is sitting in front of a computer screen all day.



However, throw a Ferrari or the new Bugatti in the deal and it's on!

Professor Machenstein wrote: I shouldn't make general statements. I just didn't like the feel of Frog Forest - Mystic Mansion. They just felt tedious to me. As for Casino Park and BINGO Highway, they both would have passed if those pinball boards were easier to control.

I must go off-topic. There's something we havn't debated. Is Shadow the Hedgehog the Sonic 2K5 Yuji Naka told Nintendo UK Megazine about, or is it a different game? Discuss. King Boom Boo demands it.

Frog Forest didn't even feel like a forest at all. It was just a bunch of giant twigs with platforms on top suspend a few kilometre from a canopy, with gargantuan mushrooms to look at as scenery, and the occasional vines to grind on. Likewise with Casino Park, it should have been like the Casinopolis level in SA. The mansion levels were just bloody cheap.

As for Shadow being the Sonic 2K5 game Naka was talking about, I think it's safe to assume it is. It appears that Iizuka now has complete control over the series, and I see very little sense in making two unique 3D Sonic games within this year; it’s completely unfeasible in Sega’s current financial position. Of course, it will only be at E3 that we will know for certain.

It’s completely unfeasible in Sega’s current financial position.

Is that so? I thought SEGA was doing well finacially, with the merger, the buying out other companies (Silicon Knights), and the independant development studios forming back into one. I mean, Sonic Team obviously had enough money with Sonic Heroes' sales, the releasing of a bunch of games and a few unnesessary titles (Astro Boy, SEGA Superstars, etc...). I could be incorrect. The only projects I've heard from Sonic Team this year are Sonic DS, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Gems Collection, and Phantasy Star Universe. There could be more. >_>

Sammy has stated that from the merger, Sega will be more focused on the arcade industry that makes them profitable than the home console business that has caused them to put the red ink on the ledger. Now granted, even though Sonic Team/Sega Studios USA is arguably the most profitable of Sega's development studios, and is primarily targeting console gamers, I still find the possibility of two high costing 3D Sonic games being produced and released this year to be superfluous. Adding to that fact is that they are also working on a number of other games as you have stated above; it's completely unnecessary for their budget and work schedule for this year.

You just need to apply Sega logic to it! If one Sonic game makes Sega 1 million in profit, then two Sonic games would make 2 million in profit. After all, it worked for the 32X...

oh shit.

dark crow wrote:Frog Forest didn't even feel like a forest at all. It was just a bunch of giant twigs with platforms on top suspend a few kilometre from a canopy, with gargantuan mushrooms to look at as scenery, and the occasional vines to grind on.

Seems they were going for another Mushroom Hill. It could have been executed better with a forest floor to walk on an without those damn frogs. Otherwise it fitted in with Sonic levels.
When considering the Casino Park the developers put in way too many Casino Night style platforms. Again, with a floor to stand on and no death drops the level could have been improved. Even the pinball tables could have been improved with a Sonic Adventure camera view or the traditional panning view from S2 or S.Spinball.

CE wrote:You just need to apply Sega logic to it!

Every large company uses the same logic. Money usually before the Primary Market and Primary Market before the fans.

Super Buisness Logic!
If people will buy the original, they will buy it again if you add new features and update the graphics!
If people will buy the original, they will buy a collection featuring said game!
If people will buy the original, use the same formula, but add a new character!

But it's true. PSO.

You know, it is possible that they're making 2 half assed, half bugeted games.

the article wrote:Actually, guns could make perfect sense. Think about Sonic Adventure, about how brilliant the bits were where you had very little control, compared to the frustration of the sections that required precise leaps and some irritating jump attacks. Now imagine if those awkward portions were replaced by some well-exectued gunplay. It could take the Sonic Adventure template and convert it into something far less annoying, and something far closer to the potential of the series. The prospect of replacing the fumble-ridden bits of Sonic's 3D games with something more playable is something worth getting excited about.

...

They're kidding, right? I know SA1 wasn't perfect, but it's a great deal better than the train wreck that is Sonic Heroes.

All other words are lost on me.

Baba O'Reily wrote:Super Buisness Logic!
If people will buy the original, they will buy it again if you add new features and update the graphics!
If people will buy the original, they will buy a collection featuring said game!
If people will buy the original, use the same formula, but add a new character!

chriscafee wrote:But it's true. PSO.

MIRITE? Look at Coca Cola. How many types of Coke do they have now? It's the same with most games too, if Sparksters put into a 3d game he will be milked like a cow.

... If Sparksters put into a 3d game he will be milked like a cow.

*Falls off chair* Wh-what do you say?! Not Sparkster! C'mon, as crazy as the gaming industry is now, Konami knows putting Sparkster in 3D would be impossible; how can you aim the rocket pack?

I like how everyone blames Yuji Naka for Shadow The Hedgehog, even though it's being developed entirely by Iizuka and the folks at SoA. I doubt they've even told him about it yet. I bet they're all hiding in an office booth working on the game and giggling, and Yuji's all trying to lean in on tiptoes like "Hey guys, c'mon, lemme see" but he's too short to see over the partition or something.

Professor Machenstein wrote:

... If Sparksters put into a 3d game he will be milked like a cow.

*Falls off chair* Wh-what do you say?! Not Sparkster! C'mon, as crazy as the gaming industry is now, Konami knows putting Sparkster in 3D would be impossible; how can you aim the rocket pack?

I know, we spent a thread discussing it kiddo.

Professor Machenstein wrote:putting Sparkster in 3D would be impossible; how can you aim the rocket pack?

Directional pad or analog stick for x-axis aiming, then hold R1 for down, hold L1 for up, R2 for diagonally down, and L2 for diagonally up. Pretty simple.

j-man wrote:I like how everyone blames Yuji Naka for Shadow The Hedgehog, even though it's being developed entirely by Iizuka and the folks at SoA. I doubt they've even told him about it yet. I bet they're all hiding in an office booth working on the game and giggling, and Yuji's all trying to lean in on tiptoes like "Hey guys, c'mon, lemme see" but he's too short to see over the partition or something.

This is really funny.

I actually laughed hard enough to draw the attention and odd stares of my family.

Hey, what exactly is Naka in charge of now anyways?

Making love to his Ferrari, and I think he's also involved with Phantasy Star or something.

Yuji's all trying to lean in on tiptoes like "Hey guys, c'mon, lemme see"

I don't know for sure having never seen the guy in person, but Naka's features suggest that he's above average height for a Japanese person to me. (that may still not be tall enough)

The weird thing is that I had just assumed the turn Sonic had taken since Oshima and Yasuhara left was all Naka. It's the reasonable thing to do, since he's really the only prominant "early" figure left, it's easy to see why the average person who knows a few Japanese names would assume it was all Naka. From what I hear he is as business-oriented as any Japanese developer could strive to be (sort of like the Jim Davis of the gaming industry) and we all know he doesn't have the hands-on with the games anymore, so it's very easy to imagine him in a position of power where he either no longer has any design ability (if he had it in the first place) or totally ignorant of what crap he's "responsible" for. Being able to shift the blame over to Iizuka is really uplifting, the thought that Naka might have just been too busy to work any so-called magic on the games Sonic Team has been making, or at least it is if you assume that he's got it and actually going to make use of it.

Even if the only other Sonic-ish game currently underway is the DS one, I feel very hopeful (but I'm still prepared for the worst, of course) that it will turn out well.


Also, I've been thinking (having finished Sonic Advance 3 recently) the biggest problem facing Sonic on the GBA besides Dimp's general incompetence is the GBA itself--compare a screen shot of an Advance game with one of the Genesis titles and you'll see the problem--the reason you keep running into spikes is not just because they are poorly placed, it's because you can't see nearly as far ahead as you could back in the day. It's hard to see any distinctive elements of any level because you can't really get a good view of what's around you.

The solution is to make Sonic (and the tiles) smaller, which would result in a loss of detail. But if they were to do it in 3D, in a Klonoa style 2.5D gameplay, you could either zoom out or arc the camera back to show more of what's in front of you, and when anyone says a thing like "the game will be a mix of 2D and 3D" I can't help but think what they really mean is "it'll be a lot like Klonoa."

Another solution would be to make the L&R triggers function as "look" forward/back buttons like they were in Super Mario World, and while you're at it, return the lookup/lookdown functions to something that can be used conveniently like they were in Sonic 1 and CD. Does ANYONE enjoy holding up or down for several seconds in order to finally get a response from the screen?

Naka's all business now, but I rather tend to think he never had much creative control in the first place, not even in the original bunch. He started as a programmer, and while I imagine that duty entailed a greater creative input back in the late 80's / early 90's than it does today, I think it would probably be a stretch to call him a pivotal designer at all.

I think Iizuka's falling into the same pit, though his early roles were definitely on the creative side. The last few interviews with him have been pure BS. He's talking straight out his ass, Sega of America PR rep standing at the ready.

I rather tend to think he never had much creative control in the first place

That's exactly what I was thinking, but it's pleasant to think that maybe I was mistaken. I still feel that Sonic 3 & Knuckles started (either by Iizuka's involvement or just the consequence of being the final 2D Sonics) what was essentially ruined in the later games, and Iizuka's role just cements the idea further--the games have become more and more streamlined to the point where they've basically thrown away everything that was good about the earlier games except the speed (and added very little--Shadow here might be a step in the completely wrong direction but obviously they've noticed something missing).

I think handing the reigns to someone else (even back to Naka) is an improvement at this point.

Someone else or anybody else? It's true though, older games had a level of exploration. Now the challenge is to go at the right speed with the right character. Heck, I'd even like to see the original running animation to make the run-fest more enjoyable.