Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

[Dr. BUGMAN]

Technology is something that does not stagnate in reality, and that makes it hard to believe that Robotnik's greatest creation is also one of the series' oldest. On the other hand, there's nothing to say that his innards aren't upgraded constantly with state-of-the-art hardware.

I like to believe that Silver/Mecha Sonic is a prototype to Metal that Robotnik pulled out of storage and used as a last-ditch attempt to stop Flesh Sonic before resorting to using his mech. Metal was still trashed at the time.

[Crazy Penguin]

I like to believe that Silver/Mecha Sonic is a prototype to Metal that Robotnik pulled out of storage and used as a last-ditch attempt to stop Flesh Sonic before resorting to using his mech. Metal was still trashed at the time.

But then why would Eggman build an upgraded version of Mecha Sonic for S3&K rather than fixing and upgrading Metal Sonic?

[Dr. BUGMAN]

Second prototype? It does kind of look like an evolutionary link between the two.

[G.Silver]

The Japanese Chaotix manual said outright that Eggman fixed up its remains after Sonic CD, and upgraded him with a laser. But then Sonic Heroes played out as though Charmy, Vector and Espio had never met Eggman before, so the entire game is pretty much ignored.

Perhaps the official storyline playthrough is Knuckles and Mighty, and those other guys stayed in the Combi Capture for the whole game. Or maybe they just didn't recognize him in his new clothes?

The other thing about Metal Sonic "between games" is that in Heroes, doesn't he say something about how he's been sort of "shelved" while Eggman tried other schemes? He's even seen in storage in Sonic Adventure. Not the most exciting background, but it's there!

[Crazy Penguin]

The Japanese Chaotix manual said outright that Eggman fixed up its remains after Sonic CD, and upgraded him with a laser. But then Sonic Heroes played out as though Charmy, Vector and Espio had never met Eggman before, so the entire game is pretty much ignored.

Perhaps the official storyline playthrough is Knuckles and Mighty, and those other guys stayed in the Combi Capture for the whole game. Or maybe they just didn't recognize him in his new clothes?

I just re-watched the first boss cut-scene. Espio knows who Eggman is, Charmy doesn't even recognise the name, and Vector doesn't really have much to say on the matter. So it could fit if at least Charmy was in the Combi Confiner the whole time, and was completely oblivious to exactly who it was who caught him... which would be pretty in character now I think about it.

[Rob-Bert]

The thing about only Espio recognizing makes some amount of sense when you consider Epsio almost got top billing for Knuckles Chaotix (the beta title screen says "Chaotix: Featuring Espio the Chameleon").

[Malchik]

I was under the impression every Japanese incarnation of a mechanical Sonic was referred to as Mecha Sonic

[Pepperidge]

I talked to Ken at PAX as well, although he didn't have any business cards and I didn't get his name. Seemed like a cool guy.

I did voice my concern about the Sonic 2 spindash being used in Sonic CD, so I'm hoping they listen and at least give players an option on that one. It's far from a game breaking issue, but I think the gimped spindash/peel-out dynamic is important. Apart from that, the demo was very promising. Looking forward to finally playing the game on a console with the original soundtrack.

[Crazy Penguin]

The spin dash is almost certainly going to be optional, like the filter. I'm actually surprised that they decided to only show off the Sonic 2 version at PAX without the original to compare it to. The one big addition I'd really like to see them add is being able to select a time zone in Time Attack mode.

I was under the impression every Japanese incarnation of a mechanical Sonic was referred to as Mecha Sonic

The ones from Sonic 2 (Game Gear/Master System), Sonic 2 (Mega Drive) and Sonic & Knuckles were all called Mecha Sonic in Japan. The one from Sonic CD has always been named Metal Sonic in Japan.

[P.P.A.]

On one hand, having played the early Retro Sonic prototypes, I could relax knowing Sonic CD in some of the best hands possible, but all this talk about the Sonic 2 spindash being introduced terrifies me. I've even heard a few rumours that the aerial speedcap is going to be removed, although I really, really hope that not to be true.
Either way, if the Sonic 2 spindash is in the game—even if just as an option—I will refuse to buy the game and once and for all abandon the Sonic series. While indeed illogical—especially if it is just an option—I consider Sonic CD to be the perfect Sonic game possible, in which every element harmonises with any other and which to tweak in anyway would disrupt its balance and rob it of its magic. If SEGA actually went this far and tinkered with its core mechanics, it would be a showcase of them not only not understanding the old games—as they have sufficiently proven—but even going as far as to retcon them for them to fit their skewered image of what Sonic never was, thereby also destroying any little spark of hope that they might one day actually produce something in the vein of the classics again.

As for continuity stuff (when did that matter anyway): I always imagined the Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic lines to be parallel, independent developments (which seems to be backed by Sonic Adventure where there are floating in tubes in Robotnik's base both a Metal Sonic, and an apparent new prototype of the Mecha line) following entirely different concepts: Metal Sonic acts as a rival to the real Sonic, while Mecha Sonic is more of a high-end, boss-tier badnik for guarding certain areas or hindering Sonic's process. Neither truly obsoletes the other.

[Neo]

Either way, if the Sonic 2 spindash is in the game—even if just as an option—I will refuse to buy the game and once and for all abandon the Sonic series. While indeed illogical—

Tell me about it!

[Pepperidge]

The one big addition I'd really like to see them add is being able to select a time zone in Time Attack mode.

I was going to bring that up, but completely forgot to. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find him after I remembered. It really would be nice to be able to do time attack for every version of every zone in the game.

[Malchik]

When I heard the Sonic CD remake will feature the Sonic 2 spindash, I couldn't help but remember the fan-gasms behind the Sonic Genesis GBA remake and the crashing disappointment that followed. But at least Sonic CD is being handled by a well versed fan and not the retards currently working for Sega. I hope Dimps or who ever is in charge of working on Sonic 4 is pissed at the fact it took an average Sonic fan to build a competent, classic playing engine on his free time, than a paid development house.

I was reading through the Sonic Stadiums forums today and besides here and possibly retro, the Sonic community has this bizarre battered wives syndrome. I can't help but be skeptical at all Sega's games.

The ones from Sonic 2 (Game Gear/Master System), Sonic 2 (Mega Drive) and Sonic & Knuckles were all called Mecha Sonic in Japan. The one from Sonic CD has always been named Metal Sonic in Japan.

What's the robot's name in Chaotix?

[Crazy Penguin]

The ones from Sonic 2 (Game Gear/Master System), Sonic 2 (Mega Drive) and Sonic & Knuckles were all called Mecha Sonic in Japan. The one from Sonic CD has always been named Metal Sonic in Japan.

What's the robot's name in Chaotix?

The manual calls him "Metal Sonic (Kai)" and explains that Eggman salvaged his AI and other parts after Sonic CD and upgraded him. His giant red transformation went unnamed.

[Pepperidge]

I find that what really places CD between 1 and 2 is that it directly and specifically expands upon Sonic 1. You can argue about the finicky continuity points all you want, but what's really important is that the gameplay mechanics feel like they branch off of the first game at a point before STI's path (that in some ways carried on right through the Adventure games) should even be considered. I think that whoever is trying to reconcile Sonic's backstory may have lost sight of this.

As for Mecha Sonic's supposed inferiority to Metal Sonic, remember that Mecha was able to harness energy from the Master Emerald. We never really saw Metal do anything like that. Well, except for maybe at the end of Chaotix, but I have yet to see anyone even attempt to explain what exactly was going on during that game's clusterfuck of a finale.

[G.Silver]

As for Mecha Sonic's supposed inferiority to Metal Sonic, remember that Mecha was able to harness energy from the Master Emerald. We never really saw Metal do anything like that. Well, except for maybe at the end of Chaotix, but I have yet to see anyone even attempt to explain what exactly was going on during that game's clusterfuck of a finale.

Probably emphasis on "never really saw" since prior to Sonic Heroes he was never around when the Chaos Emeralds were. It shouldn't be surprising that Mecha Sonic can pull energy from the Master Emerald (and others), since Eggman is always stealing them and trying to use their energy for one thing or another--if it isn't versatile enough in the first place to just transfer energy for free (it works on Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails just fine) then it still shouldn't surprise anyone that any or all of Eggman's robots are designed to make use of that energy. Even Tails uses a Chaos Emerald for mundane stuff like powering an airplane--I know he's supposed to be some kind of genius but really, how hard can it be?

I don't think Metal Sonic transformed at the end of Chaotix, but if he did, it would make sense if he could take advantage of the Chaos Rings (whatever those are) since every other enemy in the game is already powered by some sorta ring.

The manual calls him "Metal Sonic (Kai)" and explains that Eggman salvaged his AI and other parts after Sonic CD and upgraded him.

Also, if anyone is curious, the Kai here (改) is commonly used for "customized" or "revised" models of Gundams and other robots and probably has some similar real-life applications (cars? military tech?) as well.

[Frieza2000]

I don't think Metal Sonic transformed at the end of Chaotix, but if he did, it would make sense if he could take advantage of the Chaos Rings (whatever those are) since every other enemy in the game is already powered by some sorta ring.

Are you forgetting about this scene? It could be argued that Metal Sonic and Robotnik fused using the power of some ring (either the Dark Ring or the Special Ring, see manual). Furthermore, the special ring (and presumably the Dark Ring) can access the power of the Master Emerald, so you might say Metal Sonic has in fact harnessed the emerald's power.

(And what's with the glowing green eyes in the background? That must be a pretty intimidating workspace.)

[Crazy Penguin]

I think the special ring Eggman found is supposed to be the one we see in the cut-scene with Metal Sonic, and that Dark Ring refers to those used to power badniks.

[Locit]

Actally this is probably as good a place to ask as any: is Chaotix worth playing? I always wanted to pick it up back in the day, but the 32X was prohibitively expensive, and recently what I've seen of the game in video--like that boss fight--has never been that encouraging. Still, it's a 2D, sort-of Sonic game I haven't played, so I'm naturally curious.

[G.Silver]

I enjoyed it "back in the day" but the real problem with the game is that it's very, very repetitive. The levels are made up of "pieces" in large chunks, and almost play as if they were randomly thrown together by a computer and not a human being. You'll see the same very large level chunks over and over again. These days when we rag on games like the Advance and Rush series for their level design, I'm not sure how Chaotix measures up. It's still interesting, I think the rubber band mechanics are pretty cool and fun to play with, especially if you can get a cooperative second player in on it. It's a bit hard to coordinate your movements but once I got the hang of it it really became second nature. But I get the impression that a lot of people never did get the hang of it, or just wanted to play a regular Sonic game, which it definitely isn't.

[Farmer]

It's probably worth a try just for the curio value, but the more I played it, the more I wished it was traditional single-character platforming. Your mileage may vary.

Soundtrack was nice, though.

[Segaholic2]

I beat the game and all the levels just kind of blend together in my memory. I also just started picking up my partner and running with him because it was faster and less tedious than trying to negotiate the rubberband shit.

[Rob-Bert]

I just really wish I could play Vector and Espio solo. I like their different takes on the old Spin Dash mechanic.

[Dr. BUGMAN]

I just really wish I could play Vector [...] solo.

I feel like a genie.

[Radrappy]

Soundtrack was nice, though.

I had never heard anything from chaotix until you mentioned the music being good. It is indeed quite catchy! It really does sound like the kind of music that would come from the spiritual sequel to S&K. Sad that modern sonic music sounds nothing like this.