Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Esrever » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:59 pm

I'd rather see them do something with nice, stylish 2D art. But I'd rather see just about anything other than Ep. 1 graphics. These new shots may be a little bland, but at least they're competent. Ep. 1 is one of the ugliest games published by a major game studio that I've ever seen. It looks like they took elements from several totally unrelated games that used totally different art styles and then shoved them together, like some kind of hideous experimental collage.

Here, let's take a moment to really appreciate it.

Image

I'm not sure what my favourite part is. It might be the ugly-as-hell, Donkey Kong Country esque plastic bushes, which are conveniently coloured the same shade of green as the ground and flower stems to help make the hierarchy of surfaces more confusing. It might be the complete lack of colour theory. (You know what looks great? Using 8 million different shades of hot and cool greens at the same time!) It might be the fact that it looks like they used someone's desktop background photo for the clouds and sky. But if I'm really honest with myself, it's probably the shiny lens-flare-esque things on the yellow flowers.

BLECH!
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby j-man » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:43 pm

Bloody hell, is Ritz still banging on about those trees?

In other news:news! A gameplay trailer for you all to dissect with aplomb. Sure is Dimps around here, but it still looks like a massive improvement over Crapisode I... for what it's worth.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Radrappy » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:12 pm

j-man wrote:In other news:news! A gameplay trailer for you all to dissect with aplomb. Sure is Dimps around here, but it still looks like a massive improvement over Crapisode I... for what it's worth.


these things are always edited in such a way that I can never get a good feeling for how the game will play.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Ritz » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:39 pm

Splash Hill was a disaster, but why don't I ever see any bitching over any other zone? The rest of the game looked just dandy to me, they had a much easier time keeping the background visuals consistent when they weren't fussing with organic material that they couldn't figure out how to arrange or render. Lost Labyrinth was gorgeous.

j-man wrote:Bloody hell, is Ritz still banging on about those trees?

It's not even about the tree, dude! I won't stop until someone acknowledges that this sort of recycling is undesirable instead of totally glossing over it because they're locked in full-on Sonic Apologist mode. Just one person. Just this one simple and objective example of a drop in quality and it's like pulling teeth trying to get people to own up to it. Just tell me what I need to hear, and we can graduate to the next phase of the quality realization initiative. We'll take this in baby steps until everyone can appreciate why S4E2 looks like garbage.

At least the actual game is already looking a hell of a lot more interesting. There were some genuinely cool gimmicks in there!
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Tsuyoshi-kun » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:42 pm

Lost Labyrinth was the only level in Sonic 4 Episode 1 that looked remotely good. Splash Hill was lame, Casino Street was dull, and Mad Gear has a hideous color design all-around. Also loved all 4 Zones had so much going on in the background (and the foreground at times!) you can barely tell at times where Sonic is in them. Add in god-awful physics, the half-assed Special Stage requirements/stages, terrible music, and never being able to see enough of your surroundings at any time to be careful, and I don't know how you CAN"T love Sonic 4 Episode 1.

Oh yeah, Sonic's sprite was also hideous.

Episode 2 already looks better because, from the screenshots/videos I've seen, I can actually SEE Sonic, as well as the scenery, whose coloring scheme unlike Episode 1's doesn't hurt my eyes. The trees do look terrible, but everything else so far looks okay.

Ritz wrote:We'll take this in baby steps until everyone can appreciate why S4E2 looks like garbage.


Except it doesn't.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Ritz » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:12 pm

Tsuyoshi-kun wrote:Episode 2 already looks better because, from the screenshots/videos I've seen, I can actually SEE Sonic, as well as the scenery, whose coloring scheme unlike Episode 1's doesn't hurt my eyes. The trees do look terrible, but everything else so far looks okay.

Well yeah, it's a given that a lack of detail and visual interest naturally lends itself to a more functional game. I wouldn't say they struck a good balance, but you definitely won't have trouble spotting Sonic here! I'd normally be a fan of placid color schemes like these, but these realistic locales are drab enough already without the colors following suit. If saturated colors aren't your thing, this might not be the franchise for you.

Tsuyoshi-kun wrote:Except it doesn't.

A prime candidate for the Sonic Art Appreciation and Reeducation internment camp. Please step into this kiosk here and insert your eyes into the goggles for immediate retinal calibration and possible bleaching. An assistant will fasten your restraints.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby James McGeachie » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:17 pm

Well, not excited by the gameplay trailer.

For all people can argue that Generations physics are wrong (and like Esrever said, with the upgrades, they feel pretty good, so Sega repeated the Secret Rings mistake), Sonic in Generations certainly felt a hell a lot less floaty than he did in Sonic 4 Episode 1.

Cut to this video and erm...Sonic looks pretty much just as floaty as he did in Episode 1? Maybe the game wont have the same set of obvious flaws, but I'm not getting a greater sensation of weight.

It's like they're trying to fix some of the issues of the first game, while trying to still make it feel like "Episode 2" of Sonic 4. Which is a mistake, obviously, as no one wants it to feel like Episode 2 of Sonic 4. They want it to feel like a new game.

My original optimism was based on the fact I found Generations to be a genuinely good game...but I had forgot/wasn't aware that Dimps wasn't involved with it at all. Not too sure about this one now.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby FlashTHD » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:45 pm

Ritz, I hate apologists as much as the next reasonable human being, but your priorities are a tad bit fucked up. Just saying.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Ritz » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:26 pm

What, in caring about the game at all? I don't really, I just can't pass up a good opportunity to deflate excitement. Do go on, though! You know you're onto something when The Sniffler thinks you're full of shit.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Tsuyoshi-kun » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:41 pm

Ritz wrote:I'd normally be a fan of placid color schemes like these, but these realistic locales are drab enough already without the colors following suit. If saturated colors aren't your thing, this might not be the franchise for you.


I never had problem recognizing anything in the non-Dimps Sonic platform games (except G Sonic). Dimps just sucks and sucks hard at level design, control...hell, everything.

Also, is it hard to play videogames when you're nearly blind? I imagine it must be if you think Sonic 4 Episode 1 looks "fine".
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Ritz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:04 am

That's funny, I'd say I never had a problem telling Sonic apart from his surroundings ever (except G Sonic)! It's kind of hard to lose track of the neon blue object that's always at the center of the screen. Dimps absolutely does suck at everything though, let's be clear about this.

S4E1 at its best looks better than anything to come out of Dimps since Rush. That's as far as my praise goes and it's not the loftiest compliment. Now, please stop struggling if you want the needle to pierce your cornea without incident.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby (No Imagination) » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:14 am

It might be the fact that it looks like they used someone's desktop background photo for the clouds and sky.


Speaking of skies, Neo Aquatic Ruin seems to be set somewhere off the coast of LA where there's lots of air traffic. Maybe I would have Splash Hill's sky as my desktop BG for a couple of days...but I'd never put the contrail-infested cheap evening sky photo featured in ep. 2 there. I'll say it again: episode 1 at least tried. From what I can gather, this won't be getting half as much effort due to it being lol 3D and therefore "better" by default. So it might end up looking decent in the end (because most of their effort for ep. 1 was misguided anyway). ...looking at the generic 3D brick & bush & pipe assets they've got so far tho', the chances for that seem grim.

I'm am not saying ep. 1 looked good by any long shot. But to declare this as looking so much better is deluded and there's no way I'm buying into this crap; its apparent strong point is not looking both cardboard-2D and ugly at the same time; not much of an improvement there, just ludicrously low standards.

As for the pine tree BG layer, I'm refraining from passing judgment until I am 100% sure the levels that feature it aren't all parts of a bigger Floating Island Zone or whatever. With the Tornado fly-in entrance and supposed battle with Metal Sonic at the end, that could still be the case.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Ritz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:46 am

(No Imagination) wrote:As for the pine tree BG layer, I'm refraining from passing judgment until I am 100% sure the levels that feature it aren't all parts of a bigger Floating Island Zone or whatever.

I'm not complaining about it being the same species of evergreen (though that's definitely a problem, one coniferous forest is enough), I'm saying that they painted one tree, tweaked the tones and scale a bit for variety, then painted over it for a Christmas-y variant and did the same. Look closely, the curves and the little triangle tip are pretty consistent.

I'm curious as to why they even bothered painting one to begin with. They've already made a 3D tree, couldn't they just pre-render that and rotate it for variations? Would've taken half the effort and they'd have even more of that precious consistency!
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby (No Imagination) » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:59 am

I see your point. Yeah, they've taken a single picture of a single pine tree and messed with it; it's pretty insulting (being a great fan of gymnosperm woodlands, I am desolated to point out it doesn't even look the way natural coniferous forests actually do, because judging from the shape this one particular pine tree was no older than 15 years and grew on its own, much less formed part of a forest, where it ought to look much slimmer - as it is, the background more resembles an erect stand of pleurocarpous moss as opposed to a spruce forest. But hell if I know. Maybe it's not supposed to be a spruce forest, maybe it's a Cedrus forest and I haven't seen that one yet.). As for why it was painted to begin with - maybe it's not too much of a stretch to say the BG pine graphics are relics of a time in planning before the graphics went 3D...since the individual trees sort of look like ep. 1 Splash Hill cardboard cutout bushes and stuff.

I love me some coniferous forests, by the way, and they're a nice change from exclusively lush and tropical nature Sonic usually gets to visit. I should've never looked at this one so closely, though.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Crisis » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:10 am

I'm pleased about what they're doing with the Sonic/Tails partnership. That's an obvious defining feature of the classic games that was never explored to its full potential. One of the drawbacks of having 3 playable characters in S3&K was that there wasn't really room for anything unique for the Sonic + Tails character option - sure there were occasionally powerups just out of Sonic's reach and Tails could help out if you had a second controller, and I guess there was the Marble Garden boss fight, but they weren't really part of the core gameplay. It also ties into the Tornado we saw earlier (hinting at the Sky Chase Zone, another rare example of cooperation incorporated into gameplay).
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Locit » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:26 am

(No Imagination) wrote:being a great fan of gymnosperm woodlands

I just want to make sure no one misses this post. Jesus. Can we give him a medal? Like when j-man referenced Goro that one time?
I love me some coniferous forests, by the way

Oh do you?
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Crowbar » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:55 am

They still haven't figured out how springs are supposed to work so it's shit.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby (No Imagination) » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:12 am

I love me some coniferous forests, by the way


Oh do you?


Yep, I sure do.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby j-man » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:57 am

Locit wrote:
(No Imagination) wrote:being a great fan of gymnosperm woodlands

I just want to make sure no one misses this post. Jesus. Can we give him a medal? Like when j-man referenced Goro that one time?

I fully endorse this suggestion.

It's a shame that this episode, and probably any further installments, will be forever crippled by Episode I's more baffling design decisions and oversights. From what I've seen, though, and if the physics have been loosened up (or tightened, depending on how you look at it), then I'm sure I'll get some fun out of it. Yeah, I noticed that they're using the same tree... after it was pointed out to me. But there they are! No denying that! I guess the reason I didn't see it before was because I was too busy looking at Dr. Robotnik building a new Death Egg out of the Little Planet and how awesome that feels to even type out.
Last edited by j-man on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby j-man » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:58 am

disregard this i suck doubleposts
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Crowbar » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:56 pm

I just noticed that there's also a really obvious seam in the second background layer and that the blocky cliffside has a completely straight cut-off edge rather than indenting where it should. It's a cornucopia of bad design!
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Jingles » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:20 pm

http://www.sonicstadium.org/2012/02/tai ... episode-2/

As Ranger posted, I’ve answered some of these questions for you. Tails is playable, but not in single player. When playing single player, you play as Sonic and interact with Tails to progress through the levels. When you’re playing two player, one of you will play as Sonic and the other as Tails, and work together.


Unfortunately, Tails can only be played in two player mode and not in single player. It appears Sonic is stuck with tails too, and can’t be played alone like in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It’s beginning to look like co-op play is essential to progress through the game, though why there still can’t be an option to play as Tails and the CPU play as Sonic and still progress is unclear.


Aaaaand my interest in the game is totally gone! Oh SEGA, you're hilarious!
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Tsuyoshi-kun » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:40 pm

I almost never played Sonic 2/3 with just Sonic. Dunno what the rest of you did, but I always had Sonic and Tails together.

That said, Tails not being a standalone character really sucks, but it isn't for me a deal breaker. Yet.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby Crisis » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:47 am

This decision makes a lot of sense from a game design perspective. Looks like they're going all-in with the co-op gameplay they showed in the trailer. If they can pull it off, then it'll be an interesting take on the classic games, which is a lot more than I was expecting.
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Postby (...) » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:20 am

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