Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

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Crazy Penguin
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Certainly looks a fuck ton better than Episode I. Which isn't much of an achievement, granted. It's disappointing (though not unexpected) that Dimps are still using static floating enemies as platforms.

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Majestic Joey
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Majestic Joey »

so what's the deal with episode 2? will it have hook on technology and with episode 1 and somehow improve everything that was with that game? Because that would be kind of cool, I could get interested in that.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Locit »

Radrappy wrote:wow those look. . .lovely!
Seriously, what the goddamn what. It looks nice! Really, really nice! Are they... are they listening?

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Crowbar »

I see the Gimmick Mountain Zone boss making its return as a bog-standard badnik in one of those.

Also it seems Tails can actually pull Sonic upwards underwater now.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by James McGeachie »

Let's all pretend that Sega haven't just made a good Sonic game, otherwise all this shock just wont make sense!

Seriously though, Generations was good. There's no Werehog, no princess, no gun combat, no fishing, etc, etc. The level design was solid, the 2D physics were the best they've been in like 15 years...it's really difficult for me to believe that most people can play the game and not come away thinking "This is pretty good" and RELATIVELY "this is great!"

I heard good things about Colours, I havent played it, but most people were positive?

They have definitely been "listening" in recent years. Colours was the attempt to go pure-Sonic and the only extra shit was powerups which seemed inoffensive enough from what I saw. Sonic 4 ep 1 was a fuck up, but I think there's an argument for it partially being because they wanted to capitalize on the Wii and iPhone market (hence the shit visuals at least). Not listening for physics was retarded obviously, but hey, they corrected it for Sonic Generations.

After Generations I think they knew it'd be ridiculous if they made a really terrible looking game for Sonic 4 episode 2 and also that attempting to use the same physics engine as episode 1 after getting them pretty right in Gens would be indefensible. Hence I'm not surprised that this looks decent/good so far because they'd have to have literally been trying their hardest to fuck up to be able to take a MASSIVE step back from Generations.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Esrever »

I guess my big fear for Ep. 2 was the people making it. It's true that we've had a string of decent-to-great Sonic titles in the last couple of years (I'd put Colours at the top, but it's a little subjective), but they were all made by different, specific teams who apparently at least sort of know what they are doing.

Sonic 4 -- the big, stinky exception to the quality streak -- was made by another group, and I was worried that Ep. 2 was going to be made by the same team. I still am, to be honest. But at least now it has a visual style that doesn't look like shellacked vomit. I guess it's just running in the Generations engine? The lighting on the characters certainly looks the same. That art style works for me, as would the Generations physics engine, but those steps up are only going to make the whole project feel extra disappointing if we wind up with the same lousy farmed-out level design.

I guess that's Sonic CD's Little Planet in the background of some of the shots?

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by James McGeachie »

Oh wait, were Dimps not involved in Generations or Colours then?

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Esrever »

Nope! They handled the handheld versions of both, but didn't work on the console versions. Honestly, I think Generations was made mostly by the same folks as Unleashed, and Colours was made mostly by the folks who made the Storybook games.... which I suppose goes to show that these people were actually capable of making much better games when they weren't saddled with completely idiotic concepts.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

I just love the looks of the new ice level.

I kind of hope this game takes place around Never Lake and its surrounding environs, before Sonic is supposed to get up to Little Planet in CD. It'd be cool to see that story fleshed out and for SEGA to acknowledge the early games' continuity.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by gr4yJ4Y »

-Is that Sonic and Tails doing a team attack?
-The first few screenshots look like a level combining Aquatic Ruin and Marble Garden.
-The industrialized level looks completely new, unless it's from a Game Gear/Master System game
-You can see time progressing from level to level in these screens...

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Emperor Omochao »

Time travel and combo moves are two things I'd anticipated with this game. Kinda sucks that it isn't a 'full' game like the original three. Unless the four zones have four different time lines. That would be sweet. Hopefully by the time they 'introduce' Knuckles for Episode 3 they won't use combo moves since it would just end up being Sonic Heroes 2...

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by FlashTHD »

James McGeachie wrote:the 2D physics were the best they've been in like 15 years...
I played the demo. It's a clunky, stiff pile of shit that dresses up its' failings in scripted movement and ludicrously overpowered boost button spindash. When I touched a plain old vertical spring and it couldn't resist shoving Sonic forcefully to the right, I decided i'd had enough of that.

But if you wish, you're welcome to keep trying to tell me that this is better than any one of the three Sonic Advance games.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Crisis »

Yeah, the physics in Generations sucked. And it's not like there were hard changes that had to be made. Just a few tweaks (spin dash, rolling) would have made all the difference. It shouldn't be difficult. A pair of guys in a basement could have, and indeed have, made a much better physics engine - to say nothing of the Sonic Team of 20 years ago. I can only assume that the new Sonic Team either doesn't care or is in denial. That or their time was phenomenally mismanaged.

What saves Generations is the level design. It's a guided tour through every nostalgic moment in the series. It's cheap, but it works, because it feels like the developers actually put time and thought into researching what made each specific level interesting.

Everything sucked in Episode 1, though. The game looked hideous. It had no identity. The game mechanics were broken. The level design was dull. Where Sonic Generations was obviously a tribute, Sonic 4 was just a hopeless mess of ideas from a development team that clearly had no insight into what was actually interesting about the classic Sonic games.

There isn't a single facet of Episode 1 that doesn't need to be radically altered before it could pass as a good game. But for what it's worth, the new screenshots look like a step in the right direction.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Tsuyoshi-kun »

I hate the physics engine in Super Meat Boy. Way too slippery.

I'm not a big fan of the way Classic Sonic controls in Generations, but it's kind of a moot point with the Spin Dash. If he didn't have it, I would be more inclined to agree with FlashTHD.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by FlashTHD »

Crisis wrote:Yeah, the physics in Generations sucked. And it's not like there were hard changes that had to be made. Just a few tweaks (spin dash, rolling) would have made all the difference. It shouldn't be difficult. A pair of guys in a basement could have, and indeed have, made a much better physics engine - to say nothing of the Sonic Team of 20 years ago. I can only assume that the new Sonic Team either doesn't care or is in denial. That or their time was phenomenally mismanaged.
In total agreement. I realize Sonic games are an intricate, finicky and hard thing to create well, but they are so beyond the threshold of making it difficult for themselves it's unbelievable. I can't name offhand any other developer or publisher in the whole industry that constantly struggles uphill like this. (Feel free to suggest any, though!)
Tsuyoshi-kun wrote:I'm not a big fan of the way Classic Sonic controls in Generations, but it's kind of a moot point with the Spin Dash. If he didn't have it, I would be more inclined to agree with FlashTHD.
I kind of see where this is coming from, but isn't the idea that he has such an insanely powerful Spindash in the first place, and that it's such a crutch, a crappy situation in itself?

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Esrever »

The stupid thing about Generations was the "skill rings". Classic Sonic had enough momentum to make it around those loops, and do many of the various other things he's supposed to be able to do, if you equipped the right abilities. It was ludicrous that you had to equip abilities just to make him control properly... but to be fair, once you did, you did get a pretty decent approximation of proper Sonic handling. (The rolling was still a little off, but it worked in the context of Generations' stages.) So I feel like a workable physics set IS in there, somewhere... should they, you know, actually choose to use it this time.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Majestic Joey »

Esrever wrote:The stupid thing about Generations was the "skill rings". Classic Sonic had enough momentum to make it around those loops, and do many of the various other things he's supposed to be able to do, if you equipped the right abilities. It was ludicrous that you had to equip abilities just to make him control properly... but to be fair, once you did, you did get a pretty decent approximation of proper Sonic handling. (The rolling was still a little off, but it worked in the context of Generations' stages.) So I feel like a workable physics set IS in there, somewhere... should they, you know, actually choose to use it this time.
It also sucks how there are no shield boxes placed in any of the levels. You end up having to waste those skill points on shields that you only get one attempt with. That's why I have been picking the normal shield over the elemental ones because you get 2 hits before it is gone and it costs a 10 points less.
Still, I think it would have added to the game if they had shield boxes. one of my favorite moments of sonic games is deciding which shield would be more effective in different environments.

(...)
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by (...) »

Just saw the screenshots.

- Full 3D, no anti-aliasing, pre-baked radiosity lighting...this is the Generations engine. I guess that explains why there's no Wii version, since Generations didn't come out for the Wii either. God knows how they'll get that to fit on the mobile platforms though.

- No wonder Sega's so confident about silencing the physics complaints this time. They could just take Classic's physics code and put a homing attack in there, and they're done.

- The inclusion of Metal Sonic and Little Planet puts all the "Sonic CD as a prequel to Sonic 4" stuff into perspective. Not just a shitty marketing ploy after all. :)

- Shame about the level selection. The only thing I didn't like about ep1 was that the levels were rehashes from previous games. Here, we have Oil Ocean, Ice Cap, and Aquatic Ruin.

- It's an interesting choice to make it look this different from ep1. When the inevitable "Sonic 4 Complete Edition" comes out years from now, would they port ep1 to the new engine for consistency, or just change the art style for every episode?

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by (No Imagination) »

Oil Ocean, Ice Cap, and Aquatic Ruin
Looking at the background, it looks like the snow level and the construction site level belong to the same zone. Unless there's a bunch of screenshots I haven't yet seen..?

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Esrever »

Is it a construction site? I thought it might be a roller coaster of some kind. I guess it's all planks and columns either way!

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by G.Silver »

I thought it was Carnival Night kind of mashed into a snow level.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Crazy Penguin »


(...)
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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by (...) »

You're right. I stand corrected. :)

I figured Oil Ocean from this shot, with the factories and oil pumps:
http://www.psnfans.com/wp-content/uploa ... ode-21.jpg

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by (No Imagination) »

Hm, now I stand corrected. :P I havne't seen this screenshot yet. Is this ... Sand Ocean?

With the snow level, yeah, looks like they're killing two birds with one stone and meshing Ice Cap with Balloon Park. But man, it looks too damn realistic and boring to work. Carnival Night's got all sorts of shit going on inside the solid floors - this has woodwork coupled with strings of light bulbs. Oil Ocean, as boring as it looks, has trippy diamond structures and curved storage containers, while this game's take on it gets a bunch pumps and pipes stolen from whatever factory in the world. Bottom line, I honestly have no idea what the fuss is about these graphics over at various forums; they don't look any more "classic" and special than say, Sonic Adventure 2 looked. If the game wasn't hyped this much, people would be tearing this shit apart on the release date, because so far it could be easily passed over as any old Rocket Knight or Toki or Bonk or Kirby 3D remake graphics. Shit, Episode I at least tried.

(Now that they're supposed to work on stuff that's both 3D and new and original, they could've for example easily made a few Green Hill-style indentations in those brick walls and snow patches to make it look just a wee bit unique and unlike a 3D version of Kid Chaos or something. But nah.)

By the way, all tssz image links will end up redirecting to their main page, so don't bother.

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Re: Sonic 4 Episode 2 Not to Come until 2012

Post by Ritz »

This No Imagination guy? He gets it. This is some of the ugliest shit that ever came out of Dimps. For all of its inconsistency and lacquered grass, S4E1 at least looked like a Sonic game (which isn't all that surprising when they were just flat out copying existing zones anyway). This game has no style to speak of, and I'm not sure why everyone's playing up the 3D as some massive improvement when the extra dimensionality isn't adding much more than the ability to occasionally see the sides of platforms. All I'm seeing is a bunch of aliased matte surfaces that only draw attention to the 2D assets they've still got in there.

I love how they're using the same exact tree for the middle ground in both Aquatic Marble and Carnival Cap. The game's been in development for about twice as long as E1 was and they're cutting corners even harder. Awe-inspiring dedication!

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