Sonic Generations

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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FlashTHD
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by FlashTHD »

Nope. You're left to your own devices until the music suddenly cuts out for two seconds and the countdown starts.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

Oh colors even got it's bonus content all wrong. Was there anything it got right? I don't understand how the game has seemingly incurred your ire more than any other game to date. Or is it just to better combat the enthusiasm others have for it? Seriously, not even trolling here.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Crisis »

Colours was kind of cool, but I think it's pretty easy to point out flaws in just about every facet.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Esrever »

I assume Flash's excessive ire for Colours only comes out so often and so vigorously because so many of us liked it. I mean, even if you're the most strongly opinionated and combative poster in the world, you're going to have a hard time starting an argument about one of the games that EVERYONE hates.

I liked Colours a lot. I'd agree that it had a couple of major flaws, and I'd understand if those wrecked the game for a few people. But I think most of the other stuff Flash gripes about are nits so minuscule it must take a pair of tweezers to pick 'em.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by FlashTHD »

Esrever wrote:I assume Flash's excessive ire for Colours only comes out so often and so vigorously because so many of us liked it. I mean, even if you're the most strongly opinionated and combative poster in the world, you're going to have a hard time starting an argument about one of the games that EVERYONE hates.

I liked Colours a lot. I'd agree that it had a couple of major flaws, and I'd understand if those wrecked the game for a few people. But I think most of the other stuff Flash gripes about are nits so minuscule it must take a pair of tweezers to pick 'em.
Don't get me wrong, I think "boring and frustrating game" sums it up just fine. In my experience though, lots of people are often not satisfied with such a simple answer.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by G.Silver »

For what it's worth, I also found Sonic Colors to be really disappointing, but I'm so sick of expressing what I don't like about new Sonic games that I never told anyone.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

G.Silver wrote:For what it's worth, I also found Sonic Colors to be really disappointing, but I'm so sick of expressing what I don't like about new Sonic games that I never told anyone.
Well let's hear it. This is a discussion forum. It's important to get it out there. I generally respect the opinions of all the users here because we've been through so many shitty games together and it's fine to dislike things. Just be sure to complain believably. Choose your battles as not to discredit yourself in the future for having nitpicked ridiculous things. Shadow was a bad game. 06 was a bad game. Unleashed was a bad game. Colors? Apparently that's up for debate, which is what we do best.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by G.Silver »

I'm not interested in debate, only discussion. If you sincerely want to know why I didn't like it, that's one thing, but I'm not looking to convince anyone else that they shouldn't like it either. Just stickin' up for the guys who don't really like Colors. I'm glad that you guys had a good experience with it. I don't think it's necessarily a bad game.

If I were to make one criticism it would be the jump. Maybe I'm wrong and I just hate all new Sonic games reflexively--I'm not going to over-analyze this. When Sonic jumps, it looks and feels wrong to me, somehow jarring, and when the game slows down and you're required to actually jump around rather precisely (something I delighted in in other 2D Sonic games, and even the Adventure games) I found it frustrating and unpleasant to control, like a bad fan game. The double jump is also really weird--Sonic has never needed on before, I can only assume they added it because they themselves recognized that the jump was worthless on its own. I didn't play enough Unleashed to even remember if I think this is better or worse, or if it also had a double jump! Other than that, it just failed to be compelling. The backgrounds are gorgeous, but the game didn't offer anything else that I felt like I needed to get out of it. Certainly not worth spending a lot of time on when I could go play a game with a jump that I do like instead.

Since this is actually a Sonic Generations thread, I might comment that based on the 2D GHZ demo, I think that is much closer to what I'd look for in a 2.5D Sonic. I had fun with it and it made me want to play more! I think it would be really funny to find out that the jump is actually exactly the same--it would certainly say something about what motivates me to play a game, and that's my main concern with Generations, (heck, that's the case for all of us, right?) that as soon as the ruby-tinted retro levels stop, the fun will stop too. I really like the look of the 3D segments of Chemical Plant--doesn't that mean I should be enthusiastic for other "new" levels as well?

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Rob-Bert »

At least the jump in Colors wasn't as bad as the one in Unleashed.

Seriously, in Unleashed, Sonic comes to a dead stop whenever he jumps and you can barely control him in midair. It's actually possible to bounce across a chain of enemies without using the Homing Attack, but if you do you can't move Sonic at all.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by P.P.A. »

G.Silver wrote:The double jump is also really weird--Sonic has never needed on before
G-Sonic would be even less playable (what?) without the double jump. And it just felt great in Sonic R!

I was disappointed by Sonic Colours as well, but at the same time I'm also hesitant to speak out against it because the spirit in which it was made is one this series desperately needs. Nonetheless, it felt boring and just a little pointless. The tiny levels, which felt more like something out of a Mario game, being short segments focusing on one or two gimmicks to be used or manoeuvred in a specifically tailored obstacle course probably had something to do with it. There was missing a sense of actual progress and of greater satisfaction, and the brilliant worlds were wasted without the opportunity to actually explore and experience them in real, full levels. (I'm hesitant to use the word “longer” here, since between Heroes', Sonic 06's [although if each segment of its stages had been an independent Act, they would have been of optimal length], and Unleashed's 15–20 minute monstrosities and these small bits, the latter seems to be the lesser evil.)
The Wisps also tended to be detrimental to the enjoyment of the game, at least in most cases—the one that turns you into a spike ball was an excellent gameplay addition, and blended nicely into the action.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by M.C.Dillinger »

Something about watching Sonic Generations gameplay makes me feel a little sad. Not because the game looks it's going to be another disaster, it just feels like something is missing. I'm not sure what is missing besides smoother controls. Generations has the most character I've seen from a sonic game in at least 10 years.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Esrever »

I found the jump in Colours to be really twitchy and hard to control right until I switched to using a gamecube controller. I'm honestly not sure why that helped so much. Maybe the less-jumpy joystick just made it a lot easier to steer Sonic in midair. Or maybe it just felt more familiar! But it was definitely a big improvement. It still wasn't perfect, though. (And that's definitely one of my gripes with the game.)

I have to admit it, though... I loved the Wisp system. The drill and Spike Ball powers were fantastic, and I hope we see it again in future titles. And I enjoyed most of the other powers, too, even the ones that by design pushed Sonic into a more platformy, Mario-esque design -- different as they were, they were an interesting and fairly well implemented side attraction. Frenzy, though, was total BS. (Gripe two.)

The game's weakest point was definitely the handful of short stages that relied on creating "new" stages just by stuffing blocks and cubes everywhere. Those were pretty excruciating. (Gripe three!) That said, I thought some of the other smaller stages were great. And I loved the main stages... they felt like they were just the right size, and were full of unique and interesting layouts.

So for sure... not perfect. But the parts I liked (and they were the bulk of the game), I really liked, and the gripes I had were not enough to ruin that for me.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

I loved the double jump and the wisp powers. The wisp powers specifically made sonic feel relevant again. On the whole Colors really breathes life into what I had assumed was a pretty much dead franchise.

The worst part about the game is it's stupid level design. Every so often trial and error rears its stupid fucking head and boy does it hurt.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

I really didn't care for the "blocky" 2D level design in Colors, and I imagine that is part of the reason why the flaws of the floaty double-jump were so glaringly apparent. But that game was built more around trial-and-error Wisp-based exploration and not around continuous flow; When I discovered how deeply and (for the most part) ably-implemented the Wisps were, I really enjoyed myself. But I wouldn't consider it kosher Sonic gameplay, in intent and execution.

I hope that the development team continues to improve their aptitude with 2D mechanics and level design. Segments in both versions of Sonic Unleashed strike me as mostly boring and a hell of a mess to get through, especially when platforming. Those in Colors are more fun and controllable but have the flaws stated above.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by gr4yJ4Y »

Wombatwarlord777 wrote:I wouldn't consider it kosher Sonic gameplay, in intent and execution.
This is the only major flaw that I noticed. It's not very Sonic-like. Playing this game as a Time Attack is not very fun at all. And the level design feels more "Sonic with Mario characteristics" than straight-up Sonic or Mario. The levels don't ever try to be organic, like you'd want them to be with Sonic. The double jump adds to the feeling that this game could be a non-Sonic game with a Sonic skin.

At the same time, the developers knew they were diverging from the norm pretty heavily. So they put in a bunch of little nods to more Sonic-y things like the classic enemies and the retro co-op levels.

It's a fun game, but if you're looking for something that follows the Sonic formula you'll be disappointed. (And after you get all the red-rings, there's almost no replay value).

I kinda want to check out the DS version sometime soon.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by FlashTHD »

gr4yJ4Y wrote:I kinda want to check out the DS version sometime soon.
I played a couple of zones and found it to be suprisingly entertaining for a Rush game. That's not saying all that much of course, but the layouts are noticeably less lame. Try it in an emulator.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

Following on from those 16-bit titles, Sonic went through many changes, the biggest being the switch to 3D. When making the original Sonic Adventure, just how difficult was it to take the action from 2D and 3D, and were you ever concerned that it might not work?

Takashi Iisuka: Before we started the Sonic Adventure project, there were several development teams in SEGA who have tried 3D Sonic, like the quarter-view “Sonic 3D”, and projects which were turned down.

Turning Sonic into 3D wasn't that difficult. When we started “Sonic Adventure”, our goal was to come up with a 3D game which had the same feel as 2D Sonic game – comfortably speeding through the field by holding down the directional pad – which involved a lot trial and error.

I also remember recreating stage models. When we were able to have Sonic run through the loop for the first time in Speed Highway, everyone thought, “we now have Sonic in 3D”.
source: http://www.nowgamer.com/features/100990 ... rview.html

Just wanted to share.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by G.Silver »

I don't know how I feel about that.

I think it's funny that Iizuka is now in the position of answering questions about Sonic's initial creation when he didn't come on board until Sonic 3. I guess he's probably the most senior member of Sonic Team at this point?

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Tsuyoshi-kun »

Pretty much. Aside from Jun Senoue, I don't think anyone else from early 90's era Sonic is still working on the games.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

oh boy seaside hill! Classic tails looks pretty great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3iCG20Z ... r_embedded

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by G.Silver »

For all the half second you can see him? The Eggrobo gets more screen time! (He looks cool, too!)

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Rob-Bert »

Seaside Hill looks more like Aquatic Ruin and Rooftop Run looks more like a carnival level. Guess they're not being as redundant as we thought.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

I really hope that there's some sort of platforming in the section of Seaside Hill where the spiked wheel chases Classic Sonic. I'm wanted to see that sort of combined gimmick and level design for a long time.

So far Rooftop Run doesn't look much different from its original version. Incorporating some carnival elements into it could be a good idea. But I must say, that da Vinci-inspired flying contraption that apparently drops barrels looks sweet.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Team Mecha »

Mushroom Hill coming to 3DS version. Funny how the levels represent STH3 in both versions aren't actually in STH3.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Esrever »

I don't think that's an Eggrobo... I think it's the final boss from Sonic 2! (Or was that thing ALSO called the Egg Robo?) It kinda looks like he might be in the Sonic 2 style death egg environment, too.

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