Sonic Generations

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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Isuka
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Post by Isuka »

Oh, if it's only necessary for activating it just once then it's OK. I mean, you need an Internet connection in order to download the game, so you could activate it the moment it's finished downloading and from then on you're good to go, even without an Internet connection, right?

I think Steam should be also available and fully functional as a web service, kinda like the eBay + PayPal combination but with downloadable games instead of physical copies + shipping. People who like the Steam app because of some of its features (like automatic updates and patches for the installed games) could keep it, of course, and the website-only approach would please those who'd rather save system resources for running the games and don't mind manually installing new features.

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Alexrd
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Post by Alexrd »

Isuka wrote:Oh, if it's only necessary for activating it just once then it's OK. I mean, you need an Internet connection in order to download the game, so you could activate it the moment it's finished downloading and from then on you're good to go, even without an Internet connection, right?
Right. But the problem is when it's present in retail versions.

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Isuka
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Post by Isuka »

OK, now that's totally fucking stupid and pointless. Lazy bastards just "port over" the "Steam version" over to physical media.

Now I got ya, Alex.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by gr4yJ4Y »

Alexrd wrote:
gr4yJ4Y wrote:As in when you install the game?
Yes.
I don't know about you, but I usually only install games once and it's usually only right after I've downloaded them. That doesn't sound too inconvenient at all.

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CM August
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by CM August »

On a tangential note, another thing about Steam is that it will subtly 'adjust' the prices depending on which country you live in. In Australia for example, a game that is normally $49.99 USD on Steam magically becomes $89.99 USD. The only reason for this is because Australian retail outlets are used to putting huge markups on games (I purchased a standard no-frills copy of Fallout 3 for $119 two or three years back) and the publisher knows they can get away with it. And unlike, say, the Wii's Virtual Console, you can't just switch around your region settings and be teleported to the 'fair' version of the store.

Luckily there's a workaround; it's possible to ask a friend in the US to use the "buy as a gift" feature and send it to your account, then pay the friend back over Paypal. This bypasses the ripoff pricing and actually comes to less, thanks to Australian currency being stronger at the moment. I've already saved over $100 this way. The drawback of course is when you can't find a friend that actually uses both Steam and Paypal.

Not all Steam games are like that mind you; Valve for instance has kept Portal 2 at $49.99 even when the retail copy was nearly double that, so good for them.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Image

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MiraiTails
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by MiraiTails »

Ha ha. Well at least they acknowledge it.

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cjmcray
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by cjmcray »

Redrappy wrote:
cjmcray wrote:Sonic Team just doesn't get it. They heard all the negative feedback about extra characters like Rouge, Cream, etc. in the Adventure series and Heroes, and so they assumed people would shut up if Sonic is the only playable character.
As a counterpoint, can I offer up the suggestion that they are trying to find something that works for sonic before they move on to different characters?
But most of the complaints in Adventure 2 were the lack of Sonic stages. Obviously they got Sonic right if people wanted more of his style of gameplay.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

cjmcray wrote:
Redrappy wrote:
cjmcray wrote:Sonic Team just doesn't get it. They heard all the negative feedback about extra characters like Rouge, Cream, etc. in the Adventure series and Heroes, and so they assumed people would shut up if Sonic is the only playable character.
As a counterpoint, can I offer up the suggestion that they are trying to find something that works for sonic before they move on to different characters?
But most of the complaints in Adventure 2 were the lack of Sonic stages. Obviously they got Sonic right if people wanted more of his style of gameplay.
Yes but whatever they got right was successfully torn down sometime around 2006.

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Alexrd
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Alexrd »

gr4yJ4Y wrote:
Alexrd wrote:
gr4yJ4Y wrote:As in when you install the game?
Yes.
I don't know about you, but I usually only install games once and it's usually only right after I've downloaded them. That doesn't sound too inconvenient at all.
But I'm not talking about digital versions. Besides, if you want to install the game in the future, and you don't have internet (or Steam servers are gone), what are you going to do? It's inconvenient.

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Blount
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Blount »

If you lose your Internet connection or the Steam servers go down while you're installing a game, just wait until it's fixed. This is only inconvenient if your computer isn't connected to the Internet to begin with, and in these days, that's not gonna happen unless you go on vacation to a cave or something. Your kind of logic is exactly what impedes progress sometimes.

Though I agree that buying a physical retail version and needing an Internet connection to play it is just plain stupid.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Alexrd »

Blount wrote:If you lose your Internet connection or the Steam servers go down while you're installing a game, just wait until it's fixed.
As I said before, an internet connection is not something free or granted everywhere to be considered a essential requirement to install (and therefore, play) a game. Besides, Steam as a company can cease to exist after some years (even though it has a huge success today), which, by then, you won't be able to play any of your games since there are no servers to activate them.
Blount wrote:This is only inconvenient if your computer isn't connected to the Internet to begin with, and in these days, that's not gonna happen unless you go on vacation to a cave or something.
Are you serious?
Blount wrote:Your kind of logic is exactly what impedes progress sometimes.
We have different concepts of progress.
Blount wrote:Though I agree that buying a physical retail version and needing an Internet connection to play it is just plain stupid.
That's contradictory with everything you said. If you think having an internet connection is easy unless you go to a cave, then what's the problem with it being retail or digital?

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Blount
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Blount »

If you're a person who makes frequent use of the Internet, chances are you have a connection of your own, thus eliminating the problem with installing games via Steam. If you bought them there, you really shouldn't be saying it's inconvenient when your connection goes down. As for their servers, this can happen to just about anyone. If you stop using online services because you're afraid they'll break down, you'll be isolating yourself from a whole world of advantages.

On the other hand, if you're buying a physical copy of a game, there is a good chance that you don't have an Internet connection. In fact, many companies these days are only providing game discs for such consumers. So in that sense, I do think manufacturing these products only to require an Internet connection anyway is redundant. You might as well just get the digital version in those cases (unless you're a collector or something).
Alexrd wrote:
Blount wrote:This is only inconvenient if your computer isn't connected to the Internet to begin with, and in these days, that's not gonna happen unless you go on vacation to a cave or something.
Are you serious?
Well, I was exaggerating to prove my point, but to be more precise, what I meant is that you have to be pretty unlucky to have your connection fail on you every time you install a game, which isn't supposed to be a frequent action. Unless it's an online multiplayer type of game (which nullifies your complaint), you're really not gonna need an online connection after the first time you execute the game. Or at least you shouldn't; I'm aware that some companies still force you to be connected after that, and in those cases, I not only agree with you but also find it retarded. Again, the same goes for physical copies that you can get from a local store.
Alexrd wrote:
Blount wrote:Your kind of logic is exactly what impedes progress sometimes.
We have different concepts of progress.
Not necessarily. I think we just misunderstood each other for a while there.

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Alexrd
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Alexrd »

Blount wrote:As for their servers, this can happen to just about anyone. If you stop using online services because you're afraid they'll break down, you'll be isolating yourself from a whole world of advantages.
Indeed, it can happen to everyone. But not everyone makes the products they sell, hostages of the company when they go bankrupt (i.e: if the company/service goes down, so do your games).

Also, I don't isolate myself from such services. For example, I buy games from GOG.com, which sells DRM-free versions of many games. It's digital, the devs gain their money, and the consumer has no reason to complain. For all that, they deserve my money.
Blount wrote:Not necessarily. I think we just misunderstood each other for a while there.
Maybe. I can say that I better understood your point with your latest post. :wink:

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Arcade
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Arcade »

Blount wrote:
Though I agree that buying a physical retail version and needing an Internet connection to play it is just plain stupid.
Ditto that... I think i will get the DS Sonic colours instead

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Arcade
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Arcade »

When it comes to design, there are many preferences

but When it comes to what games you like, it always ends being the genesis games and Sonic adventure, with the genesis games coming first.

In other words, Modern Sonic after Sonic Adventure, total fail!

and Sonic and the secrets rings only got points for:

* Featuring sonic cut scenes in 2D

*Only Sonic was playable

*It was a new Sonic game for the Wii

*It was very customizable

*The game was actually fun for a single player racing game

*The games that came after it well... sucked!

*Hype, hype, hype!



Now, lets review those games you think they “Return the franquite to its roots”

Heroes:

There are many things wrong with this game, but the games after it where so bad, that in comparison, it looks good. Basically, had they avoided the teamwork thing and made it Sonic Adventure 3, it could have worked.


Unleashed:

Just check old posts, wikipedia and about every Sonic fansite, you cant be really liking this game, period.

Colors:

Actually got quite favorable reviews and is popular.

The Storybook titles:

sonic and the secret rings: Its popular and got good reviews

Sonic using a sword: Dude, its Sonic using a sword, its like shadow using guns, plus most people thing that game played horrible.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Ignoring every character except Sonic and Tails, Sonic Adventure was the most sincere attempt at translating Sonic to 3D gameplay. But Sonic Colours is still a better game by all other criteria.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by FlashTHD »

Crazy Penguin wrote:Ignoring every character except Sonic and Tails, Sonic Adventure was the most sincere attempt at translating Sonic to 3D gameplay. But Sonic Colours is still a better game by all other criteria.
Oh, so that's why 90% of my experience with Colors was divided between:

1) Cursing out cheap deaths
2) Facepalming at the dumb script/stupid levels that take 3-4 minutes to clear one act and then abruptly end in 30-40 seconds in the next
3) Boredom

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

FlashTHD wrote:
Crazy Penguin wrote:Ignoring every character except Sonic and Tails, Sonic Adventure was the most sincere attempt at translating Sonic to 3D gameplay. But Sonic Colours is still a better game by all other criteria.
Oh, so that's why 90% of my experience with Colors was divided between:

1) Cursing out cheap deaths
2) Facepalming at the dumb script/stupid levels that take 3-4 minutes to clear one act and then abruptly end in 30-40 seconds in the next
3) Boredom
I raised my finger and started to open my mouth before I decided to let bygones be bygones and not go down the same path we seem to have traveled for every thread since colors came out. You hate the game, I respect that. The end. But Shadow(the game) still sucks and has no redeemable qualities.

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Gaz
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Gaz »

The demo is out for PSN and Xbox Live tomorrow.

I guess we'll start to get a rough idea how good/bad/terrible it is.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Rob-Bert »

franquite
That's a new one.

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Isuka
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Post by Isuka »

It's the malformed lovechild of "franchise" and "franquicia".

As for Adventure 1 and Colors... I don't know. "Objectively" speaking, Colors is the better game by most criteria, but Adventure feels much more like a Mega Drive Sonic game, as has been said just a couple hundred times already. Then, in some aspects it is an unfair comparison, like pitting Super Mario 64 against Galaxy and see which one is more polished, or something.

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Radrappy
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

Isuka wrote:Then, in some aspects it is an unfair comparison, like pitting Super Mario 64 against Galaxy and see which one is more polished, or something.
But Mario 64 isn't a bug ridden mess so the distinction is a bit more clear in the case of Colors vs SA1. One you can show to gamers less familier with sonic and not have to worry about them clipping through the floor of levels. I used to be one of the most aggressive defenders of SA1. I absolutely adored the game and searching my past posts will reveal I held a less than subtle ire for the journalists who found it chic to take a dump all over it. But then I started to play it with a bit more of a critical eye and eventually found it to be of unacceptable quality by any generation's standards. I don't mean in terms of basic level design; I still find that quite good. But the glitches, shoddy camera work, alternative play-styles, hub world, medieval narrative, and overall accessibility make it almost an embarrassment. Goddamn if I don't have some fantastic memories of SA1, but it's time to put the old boy to sleep. Nights into Dreams on the other hand, has aged like a prince.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by P.P.A. »

Radrappy wrote:medieval narrative
But E-102 “Gamma”'s story was really good!

Anyway, I am going to download this demo today presuming Europe does not get screwed over again.
I have mixed feeling about this. The Green Hill Zone videos—while I did view with scepticism the scripted loop, occasional long, empty straights, and a few other worrisome elements in Classic Sonic's stages—looked very promising, in style as well as in gameplay (modern Sonic excluded, of course), but City Escape was a huge disappointment. While elements like the wanted posters or the unexpected twist of the familiar truck sprouting giant saw blades were refreshing and showcased that at least some love has been put into this game, how little the stage shown actually resembled City Escape—as has been mentioned here—was far from a good sign. City Escape's premise and appeal was that Sonic was running through a perfectly credible (pistons floating above bottomless pits aside), lifelike city, which managed to be a very playable and well-designed level while still retaining a great deal of authenticity and credibility. None of this is present in Generations—the colours are, in defiance of CE's inherently gritty look—overly bright and cheery, the level design is completely out of place with nonsensical floating stuff everywhere, loops, extensive scaffoldings that were not even there in the original stage, and a lot of other stretches that simply look nothing like CE at all. Although I think that the truck driving in and out of the background in Classic Sonic's stage is an interesting touch and makes great use of the 2.5D aspect of his game, but, again, it feels nothing like CE which was more about being Cool, Great, and Awesome in a pseudo-realistic environment.
I presume the stage was simply not fit for this game in the first place, as what made it iconic cannot really be translated into 2D, or into any other gameplay style but Sonic Adventure 2's—too bad they failed to realise that and used it anyway.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by P.P.A. »

I must thank SEGA for releasing this demo (which, by the way, only encompasses Classic Sonic gameplay), because they saved me 60€ with that.

❧ I spent about half an hour with it, exploring the level, testing mechanics and trying different ways of playing it. The first thing that struck me: The spindash is ridiculous. You can activate it by either holding down and tapping X (once will make you roll forward a bit, but twice seems to charge it fully already), or by holding down Square for a moment⸗this even works while running, and it will accelerate you to about triple the speed you could reach by running. I would claim that the level vanishes into a blur, but it doesn't even have time to blur—it's faster than any Rush or Unleashed boost could ever make you go. The same also happens whenever you enter a tunnel or pipe, which is a bit bewildering if you only ran up to that point and are suddenly shot out of a rail gun.
For the record, you cannot get up loops without a spindash; even with a bit of run-up, you fail to gather the necessary momentum if you simply run. Further I have often encountered the problem of not being able to jump immediately after spindashing, which doesn't seem to happen all of the time, but most of it; quite irritating.

The level design is a double-edged sword. It does not do such a bad job at emulating some of the early Sonics (a couple of scripted loops and long, barely interactive stretches of scenic running aside), and there are many alternate routes. An issue with these is that they seem to follow the quick-time mentality of recent games; reaching them often requires jumping at one precise point, or bumping off an enemy in time, making a lot of them inaccessible if you fail this, and limiting exploration.
What is more concerning is the scale of the levels. In the old games, there was always something going on. The levels were compact and filled with action, with obstacles, enemies, rings, bonuses, etc.. Everything in this one however seems disproportionally large. The stage frequently sports long, empty stretches where absolutely nothing happens, and all you do is run forward. (I personally assume these were tailored to Sonic's spindash speed, which usually crosses them in mere split seconds.)

The physics are… decent. Momentum exists and your jumps do not arbitrarily terminate as soon as you stop pressing any direction. Jumping and acceleration still felt a little off and counter-intuitive, but this might be nitpicking.
All in all, it is a decent effort, but not convincing. Whereas I could play Green Hill Zone Act 1 for 1 or 2 hours and still find new secrets or new ways to reach and to do things, but this one's potential is already exhausted after 20 minutes, and quickly becomes more of a chore than enjoyment. Considering how GHZ seems to be one of the more polished stages in the game (compared to what we have seen of City Escape), this makes me quite wary of what is yet to come…

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