Sonic Generations

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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Radrappy
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

yeah so far this game is skewing heavily towards the modern side in terms of representation.

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MiraiTails
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by MiraiTails »

I think it's downright disgraceful that only Sonic (x2) is playable in this, the 20th Anniversary game. Sure, I've heard about potential multiplayer in the 3DS version, but it's not the same.
Oh well. Maybe there will be DLC. If not, I'm sure Sega will be alright without my $60.

Edit: What else should I expect from a company that laughs at the notion of including portable levels in this alleged celebration of Sonic's history.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

MiraiTails wrote:I think it's downright disgraceful that only Sonic (x2) is playable in this, the 20th Anniversary game. Sure, I've heard about potential multiplayer in the 3DS version, but it's not the same.
Oh well. Maybe there will be DLC. If not, I'm sure Sega will be alright without my $60.

Edit: What else should I expect from a company that laughs at the notion of including portable levels in this alleged celebration of Sonic's history.
wait what? Who else would you like playable?

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MiraiTails
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by MiraiTails »

Tails. Is that so unreasonable?
I know I should stop beating this dead horse, but not being able to play as Tails in Sonic's levels has frustrated me since SA2, 10 years ago, and it's only gotten worse since then!

If they're so hell-bent on having just Sonic, why not have other characters as DLC to be released later? That way, those who want just Sonic can be happy, and those who want other characters can get the one(s) they want. Sega gets more money, too. It's a win-win-win situation.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Farmer »

While having an AI/Player 2 Tails tagging along Sonic 2 style would be a nice addition, I think the 2.5D twistiness of the classic stages would make it impossible for the camera to work.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Yami CJMErl »

Man, hearing that music makes me REALLY sad that they're saddling the 3DS version with effing SONIC 4 physics.

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Radrappy
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Re: Sonic Generations

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MiraiTails wrote:Tails. Is that so unreasonable?
I know I should stop beating this dead horse, but not being able to play as Tails in Sonic's levels has frustrated me since SA2, 10 years ago, and it's only gotten worse since then!

If they're so hell-bent on having just Sonic, why not have other characters as DLC to be released later? That way, those who want just Sonic can be happy, and those who want other characters can get the one(s) they want. Sega gets more money, too. It's a win-win-win situation.
it's not unreasonable but it is kind of a slippery slope. Once Tails is playable everyone will start whining about how (insert character) isn't available either. Also, wouldn't playing as DLC skins be a little depressing? I can't imagine playing through a level not specifically designed to take advantage of the character's unique abilities. Sonic advance did this with mixed results as you were in effect playing the same game with each character.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by MiraiTails »

Sure, having levels that are designed for a character are preferable to DLC skins, but, for me at least, skins are preferable to nothing. I can't be the only one who feels that way.
It doesn't matter, though, really. I'd be semi-shocked if they added characters as DLC.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

MiraiTails wrote:Sure, having levels that are designed for a character are preferable to DLC skins, but, for me at least, skins are preferable to nothing. I can't be the only one who feels that way.
It doesn't matter, though, really. I'd be semi-shocked if they added characters as DLC.
No, Im with you. I'd totally appreciate a classic knuckles skin. We'll see what happens but you're probably right about DLC like that being unlikely.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by cjmcray »

MiraiTails wrote:Tails. Is that so unreasonable?
I know I should stop beating this dead horse, but not being able to play as Tails in Sonic's levels has frustrated me since SA2, 10 years ago, and it's only gotten worse since then!
I feel the same way. I want to fly around as Tails and explore areas in Sonic's levels that he couldn't reach himself. I'd also like to have Tails trail behind in Sonic's stages.

Sonic Team just doesn't get it. They heard all the negative feedback about extra characters like Rouge, Cream, etc. in the Adventure series and Heroes, and so they assumed people would shut up if Sonic is the only playable character.

The problem isn't the extra characters, it's the gameplay styles they're attached to. The treasure hunting and fishing parts were the most tedious parts of the Sonic Adventure series. (Who in their right mind thought FISHING was good idea for a Sonic game? Why wasn't that idea shot down the minute it was suggested?) If characters like Tails, Knuckles, Amy, etc. had gameplay styles that completely mirrored Sonic's, nobody would complain.

I'm under the impression that Sonic Team thinks it's bad luck to make anybody but Sonic playable in their games after the negative comments they got regarding Heroes & Sonic 2006.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by FlashTHD »

Or a more practical theory is that they've been fed garbage interpretations of whatever marketing believes fans are thinking, and they're only running off of that; and/or somebody with clout is seriously out of touch with reality.

It's not the gameplay styles either. Most any problems with those can be traced back to just plain bad ideas - crippling the gem radar in SA2, ect. - and you fix those with refinement. Big's fishing i'll defend on principle, since I thought it an amusing contrast, though a horribly executed one. They also "mirrored" Sonic insofar as almost all of them used the same basic controls. Compare to the Werehog, where the designers defaulted to "cheap-ass imitation God of War" for his gameplay, and he plays absolutely nothing like his counterpart.

I think some people forget that the Adventure games, ignoring their little controversies, demonstrated actual progress. At the very least they retained the most basic recognizable elements. What they've been doing since Unleashed is going further and further removed from what plays like, you know, Sonic games at a fundamental level. I wonder if they intended to divert back to that progress with Sonic 06, but due to whatever catastrophes that occured during development, they mangled it.

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Re: Sonic Generations

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FlashTHD wrote:What they've been doing since Unleashed is going further and further removed from what plays like, you know, Sonic games at a fundamental level.
Aside from the whole Classic Sonic thing, right? Sonic games constitutes a pretty huge diaspora at this point. Do you mean the Genesis titles? Because only two of those had other characters, although they all encouraged alternate routes and exploration. I might agree with what you're saying, I think, but I can't tell exactly what that is!

What I don't get is why it's so hard to make Sonic control as tightly as he did in SA2 at low speeds. Maybe if we give them another 15 years they'll come around to it again like they seem to be doing with 2D.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Crazy Penguin »

If they really nail the 2D stuff in Generations it would be fun to see a sequel with Tails involved, as long as he's optional. The co-op could be more like NSMB Wii and Donkey Kong Country, so both characters stay on screen, have their own ring counters and items etc.

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Re: Sonic Generations

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Crazy Penguin wrote:see a sequel
I really hope we see that.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Farmer »

Alexrd wrote:
Crazy Penguin wrote:see a sequel
I really hope we see that.
Hold your horses, it could still turn out be bollocks yet.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by gr4yJ4Y »

Crazy Penguin wrote:If they really nail the 2D stuff in Generations it would be fun to see a sequel with Tails involved, as long as he's optional. The co-op could be more like NSMB Wii and Donkey Kong Country, so both characters stay on screen, have their own ring counters and items etc.
Kind of like Sonic Colors' 2-player Hedgehog Simulator?

There were some pretty strong hints that they were bringing Tails back in his old likeness for Episode II, but I think I'm the only one still looking forward to that at this point.

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Re: Sonic Generations

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Locit wrote:What I don't get is why it's so hard to make Sonic control as tightly as he did in SA2 at low speeds
Sonic never controlled tightly in SA2 at slow speeds (he was a spazzy mess). In fact, he has never controlled tightly at slow speeds in the 3d plane. ever. This is something that needs a lot of attention.
cjmcray wrote:Sonic Team just doesn't get it. They heard all the negative feedback about extra characters like Rouge, Cream, etc. in the Adventure series and Heroes, and so they assumed people would shut up if Sonic is the only playable character.
As a counterpoint, can I offer up the suggestion that they are trying to find something that works for sonic before they move on to different characters?
FlashTHD wrote:What they've been doing since Unleashed is going further and further removed from what plays like, you know, Sonic games at a fundamental level.
You mean physics and inertia based gameplay? The Adventure games didn't have any of that either. SA1 and 2 represented a departure from the original formula comparable to what we're seeing with the Unleashed games. You just don't like it as much. Try to recognize the distinction there.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

sorry to be positive again but this is utterly fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p0TvWgJW2Q&t=4m55s

It's this kind of attention to detail that is really encouraging.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by MiraiTails »

That's is great. I'm still a sad panda, though. :/

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Re: Sonic Generations

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Crazy Penguin wrote:The co-op could be more like NSMB Wii and Donkey Kong Country, so both characters stay on screen, have their own ring counters and items etc.
Assuming it's also supposed to be a 2D Sonic game:

> Player 1 tries to play game
> Player 2 stops moving
> Screen locks in place
> Insert dozens of scenarios of the game breaking here?
Locit wrote:Aside from the whole Classic Sonic thing, right? Sonic games constitutes a pretty huge diaspora at this point.
I'm talking about how it used to be that you could distinguish a "Sonic game" as one particular group of fundamental elements - ie, running, spinning/rolling, physics, the numerous recurring stage props and how they behaved, and so on - regardless of whatever else happens to be in or not in the game. (I don't count alternate routes as a necessity in this regard, as SA1 and 2 were fun with much less of them anyway.) Consider the progression of the series from the start and this is easier to see.

Unleashed onward, and Rush to some extent, has thrown out a ton of these fundamentals... let's see, you have rings that you may or may not be allowed to pick up when hit, the spin jump which may or may not uselessly deactivate when you let go of the button, the homing attack for them to abuse uncreatively, rails which require bare minimum input from the controller, springs, and aside from occasional cameo appearances of the spin dash and anything else I failed to recall off the top, that is literally it.

Another way to look at this is the 2D areas of Colors... if not for the player character and the above mentioned, that level design could have been Xeroxed from practically any other generic platformer.
Radrappy wrote:As a counterpoint, can I offer up the suggestion that they are trying to find something that works for sonic before they move on to different characters?
Yes, and that's only been taking this group roughly half of a decade to accomplish.
Radrappy wrote:You mean physics and inertia based gameplay? The Adventure games didn't have any of that either. SA1 and 2 represented a departure from the original formula comparable to what we're seeing with the Unleashed games. You just don't like it as much. Try to recognize the distinction there.
I'm sure this is utterly futile since you seem set on finding every possible excuse to debunk points of view other than yours, but whatever:

1) Go to Mystic Ruins train depot area
2) Spindash up any sloped incline
3) Jump before you launch off the top

Not much, but it was there and something to develop on. Also, this is occasionally useful for shortcuts. SA2 nerfed physics input moreso, but it could still be found in grinding and when you weren't running up on the speed cap as Sonic/Shadow.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

FlashTHD wrote:running
Colors has this.
FlashTHD wrote: the numerous recurring stage props and how they behaved,
I'm pretty sure Colors has this. Not 100% sure I understand you.

Annnd shit, I hit the submit button too early. Cont. in the next post.

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Re: Sonic Generations

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FlashTHD wrote: the spin jump which may or may not uselessly deactivate when you let go of the button
Can't believe you complain about this.
FlashTHD wrote:the homing attack for them to abuse uncreatively
How else was it used apart from from killing enemies? Was it used differently in sa1 -sa2?
FlashTHD wrote: Another way to look at this is the 2D areas of Colors... if not for the player character and the above mentioned, that level design could have been Xeroxed from practically any other generic platformer.
If you replaced sonic with mario in Colors, shit wouldn't make a lick of sense. So once again, I don't know what you mean. Weren't there long(albeit sparse) corridors in Colors engineered for speed?
FlashTHD wrote:rails which require bare minimum input from the controller
Hey, it beats dying anytime you wanted to switch rails in final rush.
FlashTHD wrote:1) Go to Mystic Ruins train depot area
2) Spindash up any sloped incline
3) Jump before you launch off the top
This is true, and well observed. But unfortunately, as no levels in SA1 or 2 took advantage of this element, I'm afraid I have to rule out it being intentional.
FlashTHD wrote:I'm sure this is utterly futile since you seem set on finding every possible excuse to debunk points of view other than yours
Not sure what the point of a forum is if not to discuss. Or am I being too rude?

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

FlashTHD wrote: Another way to look at this is the 2D areas of Colors... if not for the player character and the above mentioned, that level design could have been Xeroxed from practically any other generic platformer.
Oh I just realized you meant the 2d segments. Well, what about the under water parts? Those were pretty uniquely sonic. You could run on top of the water if you had enough speed, drown to that classic jingle if you ran out of air and were unable to swim so you had to run on the sea floor. Plus, the levels were often multi tiered vertically like the classics. It's true you needed the whisps to get the most out of exploring, but the levels haven't been this explorable since sonic 3 & knuckles. and there were stretches of slopes designed for boosting that evoked memories of the older games.

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Re: Sonic Generations

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Alexrd »

I hope there is a retail PC version, and without that Steam DRM crap.

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