Sonic Generations

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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Alexrd
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Alexrd »

Dr. Watson wrote:You cant go four topics in just about any other Sonic fansite except this one without stumbling over some guy complaining about how unfair it is that Sega is pandering to the "classic fags" while ignoring the demands of those who first got to know Sonic through Sonic Adventure 2 (Battle) and want to see a return of "dark" storylines, loads of playable characters, and electric guitar riffs.
That's sad.

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Isuka
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Post by Isuka »

Funnily enough, I'd prefer this game to have Classic-type and deeper, more complex (speed) Adventure-type stages instead of shallow, almost Rush-like Classic-type and (also shallow) 3D Rush/ Unleashed-type stages.

But I'm not faulting Sega for doing this. After all, the former two types would require actually knowing what the hell made the original games so special and actual talent at stage design, the kind that's rather scarce nowadays, instead of just an army of monkeys skilled in the arts of Photoshop.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by K2J »

I'm not to up-to-date on the marketing here; does Sega keep implying that there are 3 distinct eras (Classic/Adventure/Rush) despite there only being two characters representing them? I could see why that would cause problems.

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Re:

Post by Locit »

Isuka wrote:Funnily enough, I'd prefer this game to have Classic-type and deeper, more complex (speed) Adventure-type stages instead of shallow, almost Rush-like Classic-type and (also shallow) 3D Rush/ Unleashed-type stages.
I don't really think we've seen enough Rush-style bits to say this about the Classic stages. If anything it sounds like you're describing Sonic 4.

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Dr. Watson
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Dr. Watson »

K2J wrote:I'm not to up-to-date on the marketing here; does Sega keep implying that there are 3 distinct eras (Classic/Adventure/Rush)
Well no, Sega seems to present Sonic's history as being split in just two eras, namely "Classic" (everything before Adventure) and "modern" (everything from Adventure onwards). And the fact that Sega seems to present the entire modern era as being defined by Rush/Unleashed-style gameplay is why so many fans of the Adventure-games feel neglected. And those who are first and foremost fans of the Adventure-games generally tend to also be those who support multiple playable characters, "serious" storylines and all those other things that defined the main installments of the series during the 1998-2006 era.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by RocketPunch »

I'd be considered a "classic fag" by anyone trying to define the fan base but I'm not opposed to multiple playable characters. The only problem that brings is when Sega forces us to play as the 11-12 extra characters in order to really complete the game. They should be supplementary like Tails and Knuckles were throughout Sonic 3 & Knuckles, not required.

By all means, throw the Team Rose fans a bone, but don't make them necessary to finish the game.

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FlashTHD
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by FlashTHD »

Or, here's a thought! If they had any fucking clue what they were doing, they'd stop trying to segregate their fans and wouldn't need marketing to play the smoke-and-mirrors act every single release.

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Isuka
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Post by Isuka »

Locit wrote:I don't really think we've seen enough Rush-style bits to say this about the Classic stages. If anything it sounds like you're describing Sonic 4.
Yeah, I keep calling 'em that despite them looking a cut above Rush and 4, but way below even 2 (save for maybe Chemical Plant).

Let's say they look Advance 2-ish.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by gr4yJ4Y »

FlashTHD wrote:Or, here's a thought! If they had any fucking clue what they were doing, they'd stop trying to segregate their fans and wouldn't need marketing to play the smoke-and-mirrors act every single release.
You know, that's probably one of the main ways Sega gets me to keep buying new games. Every game seems to have some new hook! Sega always gets me to wonder, "How will this one play?" Then I find myself wanting to try it out and off to the store I go.

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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

Dr. Watson wrote:You know what actually might be the most interesting thing to come out of the Generations-reveal? The fact that a large part of the section of the fanbase that specifically prefer the "Adventure-era" of the series (generally meaning the era from Sonic Adventure up to but not including Sonic Unleashed) have now officially gone into "but what about MY feelings!"-mode. You cant go four topics in just about any other Sonic fansite except this one without stumbling over some guy complaining about how unfair it is that Sega is pandering to the "classic fags" while ignoring the demands of those who first got to know Sonic through Sonic Adventure 2 (Battle) and want to see a return of "dark" storylines, loads of playable characters, and electric guitar riffs.

It's like there is now two distinct fractions of militant "old-school" fans who will never be satisfied until Sega literally turn back time, it's just that one of them wants to go back to twenty years and the other wants to go back ten years.
These people are idiots with bad taste who should never be listened to. End of story.

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Radrappy
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

man so during this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rROWaYJ9lUc&
at around 2:17 you can hear a vocal song playing with lyrics that say "my body is your body, I won't tell anybody." I'm really really really really really really hoping that has nothing to do with this game. Part of me knows better though. fuck.

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Ritz
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Re: Sonic Generations

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Radrappy
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

Thank goodness! Thanks for clearing that up Ritz.

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Frieza2000
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Frieza2000 »

Wow, near-unanimous optimism? That's a refreshing change of pace. Am I in the right Green Hill Zone? Wait, nevermind, there's Flash. Good to know some things never change. At least not since that time you maintained that 2k6 might not suck until it was finally released. You're never going to forgive them for that, are you?
gr4yJ4Y wrote:You know, that's probably one of the main ways Sega gets me to keep buying new games. Every game seems to have some new hook! Sega always gets me to wonder, "How will this one play?" Then I find myself wanting to try it out and off to the store I go.
Well, they know they can't sell it on the merits of the franchise or the company's track record anymore. Any given Sonic game is guilty until proven innocent, even in matters as basic as whether or not the controls will be usable or the engine bearable, so they have to use novelties to catch our attention.

I don't think there are too many surprises in store for us here. We all know it'll be a mod of the Hedgehog Engine with stage design similar to Sonic Colors, an unnecessarily detailed storyline, lighthearted with a mix of entertaining and cringe inducing moments depending on your taste, tons of references, and cool stage gimmicks. The classic bosses will no doubt go back to the original formula of a machine that follows a simple pattern that you can attack whenever you want once you learn its timing, the modern bosses probably imitating Colors. It'll have Metal Sonic, maybe even Fang if they're really going all out, in-stage Super Sonic, and a hidden Doomsday-like zone. It'll be remembered as a step up from Colors, perhaps because the level design actually shows some improvement, but mostly because of the nostalgia and the closer-to-classic physics.

At this point there are only 3 things Sega can do to attract my interest:

1) Call in Yuji Naka or Naota Oshima and have them make a grand, end-all game that reveals the origin of the Chaos Emeralds and ties everything up. Alternatively, make a regular game and hire better writers (really, I just want a good Sonic movie but I'll take it in the form of a game).
2) Do something mind bogglingly absurd, like introducing Archie characters into the canon or making a Sonic dating sim or a crossover with Gundam or something.
3) Make something novel, like 3d versions of classic levels or HD remakes of classic games with cinema scenes between levels or a legitimate Mario crossover.

Personally I'm in the mood for another Adventure game, serious storyline and all. I might get this for the shear nostalgia factor, though. It's bound to be a few good hours of fun.

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Radrappy
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Radrappy »

Frieza2000 wrote:really, I just want a good Sonic movie
Frieza2000 wrote:I'm in the mood for another Adventure game, serious storyline and all.
I'm getting the impression you follow this franchise because of. . . the stories? Why would you do that?

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Alexrd
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Alexrd »

Radrappy wrote:I'm getting the impression you follow this franchise because of. . . the stories? Why would you do that?
I have to ask que same thing.

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Frieza2000
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Frieza2000 »

The plot became my focus somewhere around the time the games stopped being good. All that's noteworthy about the series now is the characters and their world, loosely defined as they are (really, would you be playing these games if they weren't Sonic games?). I think the core cast and the atmosphere of the old games, even SA1, has great potential and it'd be cool to see it get realized, whoever does it. That isn't why I'm still following the series, though. That comes from a combination of curiosity and nostalgia. You know how nostalgia is.

I really am in the mood for another Adventure game though, story or not. They were both fun and it's been awhile since I played a 3d Sonic.

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FlashTHD
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by FlashTHD »

Frieza2000 wrote:Wow, near-unanimous optimism? That's a refreshing change of pace. Am I in the right Green Hill Zone? Wait, nevermind, there's Flash. Good to know some things never change. At least not since that time you maintained that 2k6 might not suck until it was finally released. You're never going to forgive them for that, are you?
You're kidding, right? I took a jab at Radrappy a while back for him suggesting that nobody should ever stop being butthurt about Sonic 06.
I really am in the mood for another Adventure game though, story or not. They were both fun and it's been awhile since I played a 3d Sonic.
Here here, but if you believe Sega's nutcases in marketing, we apparently are a rounding error to them or something.

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Crowbar
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Crowbar »

If any of the games have ever had anything approaching a good "story", it's not been because of bullshit like the mythology behind the world or the Chaos Emeralds or the echidna civilisation or whatever, it's just been because the characters interacted in entertaining ways (e.g. parts of Sonic Battle). Hell, even in shitty games like Chronicles, the worst bits were undoubtedly all the drama and backstory etc. (setting aside the gameplay mechanics, of course), and the better bits were when the characters were bouncing off eachother. I really don't understand why you'd want them to do something like explain the origins of the Chaos Emeralds.

I also question how you can think of "3d versions of classic levels" or "HD remakes of classic games" as "novel".

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Dr. BUGMAN
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

I agree with Crowbar. Nothing good came come of exploring the Chaos Emeralds or any "origin" stories.

This sickness is rampant in every medium these days and is tiring as fuck. If you liked something most likely it isn't in spite of the mystery, but because of the mystery. Often things are there simple 'cause the creators thought it added something (in this case proverbial brass rings) not 'cause they had some grand mythos concocting in their head.

Filling in the blanks is almost never satisfactory and has the potential to alienate, too.

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Zeta
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Zeta »

Besides, everyone knows that the Kami of Earth created the Chaos Emeralds after traveling here from planet Namek.

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Neo
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Neo »

Crowbar wrote:If any of the games have ever had anything approaching a good "story", it's not been because of bullshit like the mythology behind the world or the Chaos Emeralds or the echidna civilisation or whatever, it's just been because the characters interacted in entertaining ways (e.g. parts of Sonic Battle). Hell, even in shitty games like Chronicles, the worst bits were undoubtedly all the drama and backstory etc. (setting aside the gameplay mechanics, of course), and the better bits were when the characters were bouncing off eachother. I really don't understand why you'd want them to do something like explain the origins of the Chaos Emeralds.
It's like I'm actually browsing a Lost forum.

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CM August
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by CM August »

To be sure, the only things I would call noteworthy about Sonic are the visuals, music and gameplay, and only one of them is still hitting the mark. It certainly isn't the stories or characters, which range from merely serviceable to irritating. It would be nice if it were a little more substantial, but there's not even a chance of that happening any time soon. If I grab Generations it'll be for the same reason as Unleashed: it's got some pretty sweet eye candy.

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Crisis
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Crisis »

The best games in the series got away with virtually no story whatsoever. There were also some pretty good ones in spite of a terrible story (i.e. SA1/2). The obvious conclusion is that the quality of the story is a poor predictor of the overall game quality.

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Frieza2000
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Re: Sonic Generations

Post by Frieza2000 »

FlashTHD wrote:You're kidding, right? I took a jab at Radrappy a while back for him suggesting that nobody should ever stop being butthurt about Sonic 06.
Yeah, I'm just messin'. I usually agree with your complaints. It has been a long time since we've seen you optimistic, though. That can't be good for your health. Perhaps you could sue Sega-Sammy for causing malignant hypertension.

It's true, there's never been a great Sonic story (though SA1 was pretty good), but I think the main cast has the strong potential for one. It's a shame and I'd definitely pay to see one done right but I'm not holding my breath for it any more than I am for the games to recapture the magic that they had in their first decade. Story is probably what it's going to take for Sega to attract my interest at this point. These Hedgehog Engine levels they've been making look fun but I don't have time these days for a few hours of cheap fun unless there's something more offered, and I don't see them dropping this engine any time soon.

As for the origin of the Chaos Emeralds and tying everything up, I'm just a whore for closure. I love endings and if there were ever to be an ending to Sonic the emeralds would have to be addressed, even if certain things were left unanswered. Not that I'd expect it to turn out good or anything; we'd probably end up with a story about them being the crystallized essence of teamwork, or what Zeta said. Having Naka or Oshima do it would be quaint, but I'm not under the illusion that they ever had a detailed backstory in mind when they were still working on the series or that they'd come up with anything better than what we've been getting. I'd still pay to see it though.

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