Super Sonic Galaxy

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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FlashTHD
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Re:

Post by FlashTHD »

Isuka wrote:
Zeta wrote:
FlashTHD wrote:Sonic not only de-spins while falling in a jump, but they didn't have the presence of mind to NOT leave him vulnerable when this happens, so hello nonsensical hits/deaths from just trying to jump on an enemy (see also: the ill-concieved "hop" jump from a light tap of the button).
Oh noes, jumping doesn't make me invulnerable to all enemies now. Learn to homing attack, it's not exactly the hardest gameplay thing to learn.
... Sonic 06 had the same shit.

You are now indirectly apologizing one of 06's most blatant flaws/ bugs by resorting to the same kind of excuse to defend basically the same thing in Colors.

This is just lame.
To clarify, in 06 there was no spin jump attack period. In Colors, there is, but once Sonic starts falling from a jump, he just de-spins for no apparent reason. Previously when they did this, it was just cosmetic; this time it means he's not attacking and will take damage if you touch any enemy too late. It's difficult to judge the timing for when he does this, not that it makes any bloody sense for you to be expected to. There is essentially no way to save yourself from this except to either do awkwardly timed double jumps, or panic and do a stomp (assuming it's even safe to do that). And note, Zeta, that sometimes the homing attack is not an option.

Also, if you only lightly tap the button, Sonic just does a small non-spinning hop. The entire purpose of this is to be able to jump little hurdles without losing much speed, but is yet another fantastic and unintuitive way to get accidentally hit/killed.

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Radrappy
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Radrappy »

Isuka wrote: Notice I haven't played the game yet, so I'm just pointing at logical inconsistencies rather than post my opinion about whether I like it better than previous Sonic games or not.
And in doing so bring absolutely nothing to the discussion. Bravo.

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FlashTHD
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by FlashTHD »

Radrappy wrote:
Isuka wrote: Notice I haven't played the game yet, so I'm just pointing at logical inconsistencies rather than post my opinion about whether I like it better than previous Sonic games or not.
And in doing so bring absolutely nothing to the discussion. Bravo.
Except his points were all pretty much valid regardless.

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Kogen
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Kogen »

If you hold jump he keeps on'a spinnin'.

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Zeta
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Zeta »

Having a cheap God of War knock-off slapped on an already bastadized 3D Sonic game instead of more flawed, haphazardly designed stages for said bastardized 3D Sonic game, with some pointlessly wacky controls and unexplainable stuff bordering on glitch material like "de-spinning" jumps are both bad things. Of course, some people will be more tolerant towards one than the other, but neither is a clear-cut improvement.
Kogen wrote:If you hold jump he keeps on'a spinnin'.
All of the control changes in Colors were to give the player MORE control over Sonic. If you can't handle the slightly increased complexity, the game probably isn't for you.

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FlashTHD
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by FlashTHD »

Zeta wrote:All of the control changes in Colors were to give the player MORE control over Sonic. If you can't handle the slightly increased complexity, the game probably isn't for you.
More control. Heh. No significant game in the entire series previously has made Sonic stop attacking in the middle of a jump when you let go of the button. There was no purpose for it before and the only purpose to speak of in Colors is treading across breakable block bridges. Whoohoo, brilliant. Clunky jumping because of one infrequent gimmick.

The term isn't "complex", it's "unintuitive".

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Kogen
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Kogen »

This is what happens when you try to put Sonic in a Mario game, though!

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Crisis
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Crisis »

Zeta wrote:All of the control changes in Colors were to give the player MORE control over Sonic. If you can't handle the slightly increased complexity, the game probably isn't for you.
Call it a petty complaint if you must, but don't try to justify it as an informed design choice. This is the development team demonstrating their ignorance of the basic design philosophy that made the original games so great. The controls were streamlined on purpose.

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Kogen
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Kogen »

Just curious: did anyone else like how they created a mostly-functional spindash move, then confined it to wisp? As if Sonic someohw forgot he was a hedgehog and needed a squid to fly up his arse for him to remember.

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Post by Isuka »

Great then, it wasn't as bad as 2K6. I'm relieved, and I also apologize for the unjust accusation.
Zeta wrote:All of the control changes in Colors were to give the player MORE control over Sonic. If you can't handle the slightly increased complexity, the game probably isn't for you.
Hold yer horses. Weren't you implying just one week ago that complexity was a bad thing, or that at least it didn't immediately make things better, therefore an implementation such as this isn't an immediate improvement?

Also, NEWSFLASH: you can de-spin on command in the first Sonic Adventure! Press the Jump button, then while in the air press the Action button. About a million times more intuitive, precise and predictable than this other retarded-sounding method, don't you think?

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Kogen
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Kogen »

That makes you boost forward now since double jump was added. The game is both 2D and 3D, ya see?!

By both I mean it has pointless 3D sections that you barely ever see which results in the 2D sections having awkward controls as it needs to relate to both at the same time.

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Crisis
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Re:

Post by Crisis »

Isuka wrote:Also, NEWSFLASH: you can de-spin on command in the first Sonic Adventure! Press the Jump button, then while in the air press the Action button. About a million times more intuitive, precise and predictable than this other retarded-sounding method, don't you think?
This also served the purpose of resetting your forward momentum, allowing for slightly more precise platforming. It can be used to abort a botched spin dash that launched you into the air, for instance, or to do precision platforming at high speeds (the only areas I can think of where this was helpful were a few alternative routes in Speed Highway and some shortcuts in Twinkle Park, but I'm sure there are more that I can't remember). It was effectively an alternative to the untargeted homing attack, which also ended your spin but gave you a boost of forward momentum.

The de-spin in Colours doesn't really do anything as far as I can tell. Adjusting your momentum in midair is done with the double jump, not the unspin (which just happens by default in the middle of a jump, leaving you vulnerable). At first, I thought it was to do with the homing attack - a sort of reverse psychology from every other Sonic game, where de-spin made you lose the potential to chain homing attacks. But it's just there for the extra challenge I guess. It's not even that much of a challenge - just hold the button down.

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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Radrappy »

You guys are crazy, the spindash in SA1 was terrible and used mostly to spam levels.

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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by G.Silver »

That's what made it so fun! You could really push the character and build up as much speed as you wanted. It is definitely something that could have used refinement, but it created a more intense, exciting, and completely optional method of play. And you can't really just spam it mindlessly, there is a definite technique to it. This is SA1 we're talking about--if you do it wrong, you might fall through the floor. :)

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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Locit »

Guys I was playing SA1 earlier today an-
G.Silver wrote:And you can't really just spam it mindlessly, there is a definite technique to it. This is SA1 we're talking about--if you do it wrong, you might fall through the floor. :)
Yeah pretty much this. So damn buggy. Honestly that was one of the most refreshing things about Colors--I never felt like a death wasn't my fault or that I didn't know the rules of the game. Unlike SA1 its quality isn't going to drastically drop when look back on it in three years*. Meanwhile I was swearing like a sailor earlier because WHY WON'T HE PICK UP THE DAMN THINGY NO DON'T THROW IT FUCKING FUCK GODDAMN CAMERA FUCK YOUUUUUUU

*because it's already so low lolololololololololol

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Crisis
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Crisis »

To be honest, I think the speed boosters are more appropriate than the spin dash in a 3D environment. They force the player to plan their route around certain momentum checkpoints. Unfortunately, they also change the direction the player is running in, which takes some of the fun out of it. The spin dash in SA1 was a bit too powerful, providing instant momentum in any direction for no investment. There is some tradeoff, because it does raise the stakes a little - it's hard to control and you risk flying off/through the stage - but that just made doing the C missions that much more frustrating.

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Kogen
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Kogen »

Someone is going to look back on Sonic Colours? And here I thought it was going to be forgotten just like Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Unleashed, and Sonic Unleashed (again!). I was not aware we had a classic, unforgettable experience here!

Also insert a generic statement about past games not being as good as now with over-exaggerated game bug claims here --> [x].

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(No Imagination)
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by (No Imagination) »

Kogen wrote:[x]
In Sonic Adventure International, Knuckles could enter parts of Sonic's Lost World action stage because of bugs.

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Esrever
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Esrever »

Man, I WISH we lived in a work where people forgot about Sonic 2006 and Shadow the Hedgehog, but I think we all know that isn't true and never will be.

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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Rob-Bert »

Guess we can't help but be morbid.

Oh, and I like Colors, but given how I'm the resident dumbass that's to be expected.

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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Radrappy »

It's okay rob. Most people like it. The few who are holding out hate it for stupid reasons, really.

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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Farmer »

The real million-currency question in such circumstances would be as to whether anyone who considers themselves a true Sonic fan would prefer Sonic 4 - which was aimed at this demographic - over Colours.

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Crisis
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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Crisis »

It's hard to hate Colours, aside from general bitterness, but it's hard to love it as well. It has enough irritating issues that it's definitely not a must-have. Whether or not it's remembered as the game that saved the franchise will probably be decided but whatever follows it.

As for Colours v. Sonic 4, Colours probably has the edge, but to be fair on Sonic 4, it's a an episodic budget title. If I hadn't got Colours for free, I doubt I would have been happy paying four times the price of Sonic 4 for yet another piece of mediocrity.

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Re: Super Sonic Galaxy

Post by Rob-Bert »

Think of it this way: Unleashed was at least somewhat better than 2006, and this game is somewhat better than Unleashed. Unless we're the unluckiest fanbase whomever lived, then we may have some chance of the next game being somewhat better than this, right? ...right?

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Post by Isuka »

So, I consider myself a "true Sonic fan", and I'm left with the following options to choose from: 1. Terrible game [horribly, laughably] commercially targeted at "my demographic", and 2. Mediocre-to-decent game targeted at young children.

... It's a no-brainer for sure, but seriously, it's kinda like that one "pick your poison" topic all over again.
Esrever wrote:Man, I WISH we lived in a work where people forgot about Sonic 2006 and Shadow the Hedgehog, but I think we all know that isn't true and never will be.
This, I was thinking this exact same thing while reading Kogen's post.
Rob-Bert wrote:Guess we can't help but be morbid.
This too. It's probably much healthier than my "11/7/2006 NEVAR FORGET, NEVAR FORGIVE!!!" approach.

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